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need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7 (Read 6547 times)
henriette
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need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Aug 20th, 2011 at 8:17am
 
Hiya  Smiley

although I read on here that it should work, and since I'm
unfamiliar with Windows 7:

Will anyone be kind enough to confirm that Ghost 2003 will definitely run on Windows 7 | 64bit  Huh

note1: Present O/S = Windows XP Pro | 32bit.
I run Ghost 2003 in DOS only, using 2 'CD/DVD boot-floppies'.

I will stick with XP as long as possible. Anyway, I may have to install Windows 7 Professional (?? - someone told me to take the 64bit-version, would you agree ... or recommend 32bit Huh), and I will need the *Virtual XP mode*.

Reason: old apps/hardware, which I want to keep  Wink

Ghost 10 seems very complicated to me, also too many features, I don't need.

That is why I am using Ghost 2003 for creating & restoring images (usually only C:\ partition!).

I also will have to make a *whole drive* backup of my HD0 (incl. O/S), when I have to replace the HD (old age).


note 2: I have get new board + new CPU, 'cause present CPU > virtual technology NOT SUPPORTED.


henriette  Smiley

 

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OldCasper
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #1 - Oct 10th, 2011 at 7:25am
 
I found that without some acrobatics, Ghost 2003 backups of Windows 7, will restore but won't boot.
Before I get slammed again, there is a workaround for that problem, but I was confused by all the steps required. So.........I stepped up to Ghost 11.5 which works great with Windows 7.
Ghost 11.5 is just too big to fit on a floppy disk, but looks and runs exactly like Ghost 2003.  But it does fit and run just fine on a Flash Drive or CD.

The only problem I found with a CD is the fact that neither ghost or you can write to the CD.  But if no changes are needed or no errors need to be added to the error.log, then a CD works just fine.

If I need to make changes to Ghost 11.5, I just make them on my Flash Drive and then burn a new CD.  Simple!

But no matter how I run it, Ghost 11.5 saved the day for me.  There is also a version of Ghost 11.5 (Ghost32.exe) that can be run from within Windows.  I prefer NOT to use that.

Since my XP partition is in FAT-32 format, I can run batch files from my Ghost Boot disk to clean out all the junk in my HD before I actually run Ghost to start the backup.

To still use my Ghost boot disk to backup Win-7 which is on an NTFS partition and be able to run my cleanup batch files, I have NTFS4DOS on my boot disk to open up the NTFS partition so I can run my DOS batch files.

That adds one extra step to doing a backup of Win-7, but it's really no big deal.  The whole operation is simplified by the DOS menu that I have on my boot disk.
It's great to be able to clean all the junk files out of my C: drive before I back it up.  That can save over four gigs of space when I back up Win-7.

Cheers Mate!
Old Casper  Cool
 

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Christer
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #2 - Oct 10th, 2011 at 12:26pm
 
I meant to reply to this question but I forgot. OldCasper, thanks for reminding me!

Have a read of Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7 which is a discussion of the topic. I use a standard floppy created from within Ghost 2003, no extra drivers which makes USB a "no go" but I have my target drive in a mobile rack.

I dual boot Windows XP SP3 Professional and Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. The reason is the same as yours is, I have software that don't work with Windows 7.

I started by installing Windows XP SP3 on a new drive (smaller than 1 TB because that too is an issue with Ghost 2003) and created C:. From within XP, I created the other partitions, D: for Windows 7 and E: for data. No unallocated space for Windows 7 to create its small hidden partition.

When I installed Windows 7, the installer automatically created the dual boot by modifying boot.ini on C: and in addition to that, it added a hidden "Boot" folder on C:.

The above means that after installing Windows 7 on D:, a new image of C: must be created for synchronization.

After the dual boot installation was completed, I have restored and created images of both XP and 7 on several occasions. Both operating systems boot fine with no extra measures.

As a side note, I had to change the permissions of the user folders (for data storage) on E: to be able to modify them and delete them from whichever operating system. At first, a file created in XP could be accessed in 7 but not modified or deleted. I could have used the shared folders but that would have been too easy ... Wink ...

If you choose to not install in dual boot and you choose Windows 7, the hard disk must be partitioned (e.g. C: and D:) with no unallocated space which prevents Windows 7 from creating its small hidden partition. I did that on an installation for a friend and I started by a temporary installation of Windows XP to create the partitions C: and D: with no unallocated space. Next, Windows 7 was installed on C: and all boot files and the operating system will be on that same partition and it will boot fine after restoring an image.

The solution is:

1) Do all partition work from Windows XP, even if it means that you have to do a temporary installation to "get it all" with no unallocated space, even if you want Windows 7. (It takes ~30 minutes and is worth the extra wait.)

2) If you want to dual boot, install Windows XP first.

3) If dual boot, change the permissions for the user folders to make them "fully accessible" from both operating systems.
 

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Brian
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2011 at 6:45pm
 
@
Christer

I don't use the Microsoft method of multi-booting but I always have lots of unallocated space on a HD when I install Win7. If you install Win7 into a pre-created NTFS partition you don't get a SRP. I used to have 4 Win7 on this HD (and several WinXP) and I run with 100 GB of unallocated space in case I want to install other OS.
 
 
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #4 - Oct 11th, 2011 at 1:42am
 
Hello Brian,
thanks for clarifying!

The reason I create all partitions from XP is that in "Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7" in reply #1 someone ... Undecided ... stated:

Quote:
This way the partitions will be cylinder aligned and compatible with Ghost 2003.


However, your research is ongoing but ... Wink ... I quit when it works.

I don't remember the exact dialog but creation of the dual boot required no imput from me. Well, maybe a "YES" but it was automatic. If Windows 7 had been installed first, it would have been different.

 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #5 - Oct 11th, 2011 at 10:33pm
 
@
Christer

Quote:
If Windows 7 had been installed first, it would have been different.

It's okay to use the *Microsoft* way of dual booting--but, the downside is that your Win7's boot files are on the WinXP partition--so, Win7 depends on both the partition it's installed on as well as the partition that WinXP is installed on--you can't independently restore the Win7 partition to a replacement HDD and expect it to boot successfully--so you have to do Ghost backups of both partitions and you will have to restore both partitions--or, you will have to do *repairs* to the Win7 OS--but, I don't think that will be too difficult--seems Win7 has made that easier than previous versions of Windows.
 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #6 - Oct 12th, 2011 at 1:55am
 
Hello NightOwl,

I regard the hard disk as a unit and if it fails, I will replace it and "restore" the new one as the failed one was. If I want to make significant changes, like no more dual boot, I will start from square one.

As I understand it, no matter which "way of dual booting", the boot files have to go somewhere and even if they go on a small dedicated partition, both that partition and the one with the operating system have to be imaged and restored when transfered to a different hard disk, right?

(To avoid accusations of thread hijacking, maybe we should start a new thread for this discussion?)
 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #7 - Oct 12th, 2011 at 10:17am
 
@
Christer

Quote:
(To avoid accusations of thread hijacking, maybe we should start a new thread for this discussion?)

Well,
@
henriette did say this:

Quote:
and I will need the *Virtual XP mode*.

Reason: old apps/hardware, which I want to keep

So, dual booting may be the better way to go--I'm not experienced enough with Win7 to know if the *Virtual XP mode* running under Win7 is entirely compatible with old software and hardware--(can someone comment on that?).  Dual booting to the *real* WinXP would solve the compatibility issue, if needed.  (And, in order to have WinXP and Win7 dual booting using the *Microsoft way* requires pre-planning so WinXP is installed first--as you mentioned above.)

Quote:
As I understand it, no matter which "way of dual booting", the boot files have to go somewhere and even if they go on a small dedicated partition, both that partition and the one with the operating system have to be imaged and restored when transfered to a different hard disk, right?

Nope!  The boot files are placed in the small dedicated partition for Win7 (? and Win Vista) if you let the *default* installation process proceed on its own!  If WinXP is already present, then the boot files for Win7 will be placed on the WinXP OS partition--so, Win7 will be dependent on the WinXP partition in addition to the partition it is installed to--and both have to be imaged and both have to be restored if you need to recover your Win7.

Quote:
no matter which "way of dual booting", the boot files have to go somewhere

Yes, the *boot files* do have to go somewhere.  But, we have to define *boot files* when talking about *dual booting*.  If using the Microsoft way of dual booting, then the *boot files* are placed on the partition that has the older Windows OS--and you have to install the newer Windows OS after the older OS in order for the dual boot to work.

But, on non-Microsoft ways of dual booting, usually there is a *boot loader* program that has the ability to change which partition is the *active, boot partition* (and it makes the other OS partition *hidden*, and protected from being changed or interfered with by the *active OS*)--and you switch to the partition whose OS you want to load during boot.  But, all the *boot files* for loading the Win OS are on the single, active partition--because when you install each OS, you have already selected which partition is *active and seen* by the installation program--the other partition is not available to the installation program and no *boot files* will be placed there.

Quote:
both that partition and the one with the operating system have to be imaged and restored when transfered to a different hard disk

If you are going to continue *dual booting*, of course you have to restore both OS partitions.  And, on a new HDD, you probably have to install the *boot loader* program (most of the boot loader programs are placed in the *master boot region*--which is therefore *not* on the actual active OS partition.  If you are doing a *whole drive* backup, then that boot loader will be restored to the new HDD when you do a *whole drive* restore (if you have told Ghost you need to copy the entire *boot region*--using the *-ib* switch (*image boot*)--that's why the *-ib* switch exists--to capture and then restore any master boot region programs--boot loaders or other programs that might be hidden in that HDD area.)

If you are restoring just the OS partition and abandoning the *dual boot* (completely or temporarily), then you should be able to boot immediately to the OS after restoring--no reloading of the boot loader program--because all the boot files should be on that OS image.

On the other hand, if using the Microsoft way of dual booting, you will not be able to boot the Win7 OS if that's all you restored--it needs that WinXP partition as well--no choice now!  You can probably do a Win7 installation *repair* and get back the ability to boot Win7.  But, you will not be able to add back you WinXP if you have repaired the Win7 boot files (at least not without jumping through a lot of repair steps!).

Personally, I have not usually used an installed *boot loader* program.  I have Master Boot Programs on my boot floppy or optical disc that I use to *manually* change the active, boot partition--so I don't depend on any *installed* program hidden in the Master Boot Region.  Either way works fine, however.
 

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Brian
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #8 - Oct 12th, 2011 at 3:33pm
 
If you want to "separate" the two OS and make booting independent...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=324

There is also an interesting section on the need to do a second format if the Win7 partition was created by WinXP.

As you know I use BootIt BM as a boot manager. The app is installed into the First Track and an 8 MB FAT partition. It allows you to have over 200 primary partitions on a hard drive but you have to select which 4 primary partitions will be in the partition table for each booted OS. For example when I boot Win7 I might only want to see the Win7 partition and a common data partition. The other partitions are not just "hidden", they don't really exist as far as Win7 is concerned because they aren't in the partition table. Even though the partitions aren't in the partition table, TeraByte apps such as Image for Windows and TBOSDT can see these partitions and you can image, restore, copy, paste, delete files from partitions that aren't seen by Win7.
 
 
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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #9 - Oct 13th, 2011 at 2:21am
 
Brian,
thanks for expanding on the topic. Every time I try to answer a question, I learn someting new!
 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #10 - Oct 16th, 2011 at 1:50am
 
@all

this thread has become a subject for *dual booting*, both XP + Windows 7.
Though it's very interesting, and I am thankful for the discussion, I'd better stick with XP *single boot*. Furthermore, I don't need a new board, CPU, etc. etc. (as I would for installing Windows 7, plus the fact, that Windows 7 is very big in comparison to XP!)
As I take from this thread, as well, there is no way to use Ghost 2003 & Windows 7 - at least with my limited knowledge.

Thank you so much for the replies/discussion  Wink

henriette  Smiley



 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #11 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 6:59pm
 
@
Christer

Quote:
I dual boot Windows XP SP3 Professional and Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. The reason is the same as yours is, I have software that don't work with Windows 7.

Based on what I've read from your posts, I'm guessing you have not tried to install the Windows Ghost 2003 interface software--you just are using Ghost 2003 from a DOS boot floppy--correct?

The reason I ask is whether we can get some sort of feed back whether Ghost 2003's Windows interface is compatible with the Win7 64 bit system (or for that matter a Win7 32 bit system--anyone out there with any testing experience to report?)  My bet is probably not--but a test install would answer
@
henriette's question:

Quote:
Will anyone be kind enough to confirm that Ghost 2003 will definitely run on Windows 7 | 64bit

I'm not sure if
@
henriette is asking about installing the Windows Ghost 2003 software and running it under Win7 64 bit--or, can Ghost 2003 be used to create Ghost images of a system that is using Win7 using the DOS Ghost program?!
 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #12 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 7:22pm
 
@
henriette

Quote:
I'm not sure if
@
henriette is asking about installing the Windows Ghost 2003 software and running it under Win7 64 bit--or, can Ghost 2003 be used to create Ghost images of a system that is using Win7 using the DOS Ghost program?!

So, which is it?

Quote:
As I take from this thread, as well, there is no way to use Ghost 2003 & Windows 7

You're *reading the tea leaves* wrong!  Look back at Christer's first post (reply #2) above--the link there has information on how to use DOS Ghost 2003 in conjunction with a Win7 system--32 or 64 bit.  To use Ghost 2003 with the least amount of problems, you have to alter the default installation behavior of Win7 so the boot files act similar to how WinXP boots--becasue Ghost 2003 only knows how to *understand* WinXP's boot--Ghost 2003's development stopped before Win Vista and Win7--both of those use a new boot file setup that Ghost 2003 will not understand--but, you can change how Vista and Win7 boots so Ghost 2003 will work fine--just have to jump through the setup hoops to make it happen.

But, I don't know if you can *install* the Windows based Ghost 2003 on a Win7 system.

Quote:
I will stick with XP as long as possible. Anyway, I may have to install Windows 7 Professional (?? - someone told me to take the 64bit-version, would you agree ... or recommend 32bit Huh), and I will need the *Virtual XP mode*.

Ah...I see you added a note:

Quote:
note 2: I have get new board + new CPU, 'cause present CPU > virtual technology NOT SUPPORTED.

I was going to say--if you have an older system, you probably would not enjoy using the *Virtual XP mode* because an older system is probably going to be too slow running *Virtual XP mode* under Win7!

But, dual booting eliminates the issue of using the *Virtual XP mode*--you can use *real XP mode*  Wink .  However, Win7 on an older system may still be too slow to enjoy!
 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #13 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 4:29am
 
@NightOwl

Quote:
I'm not sure if henriette is asking about installing the Windows Ghost 2003 software and running it under Win7 64 bit--or, can Ghost 2003 be used to create Ghost images of a system that is using Win7 using the DOS Ghost program?!

Maybe both (?) ..., IF I ever would install Windows 7, I would want to install Ghost 2003. But (!) I would use Ghost in DOS-mode ONLY, since that is its native 'mode'.

Quote:
I was going to say--if you have an older system, you probably would not enjoy using the *Virtual XP mode* because an older system is probably going to be too slow running *Virtual XP mode* under Win7!

But, dual booting eliminates the issue of using the *Virtual XP mode*--you can use *real XP mode*. 
However, Win7 on an older system may still be too slow to enjoy!


As I said before:

My present computer does not meet Windows 7 system requirements. ---> older applications (which I want to keep!) = slow/dual booting required in order to use *real XP mode*/needed new board, CPU, Case, hardware +++ (money!!)/Win 7 = bigggg plus too many *features*/*applications*, which I don't need  &&& ... 

Therefore I am NOT going to install Windows 7.

I will stick with XP professional. If ever I should catch a virus (after 2014 = end of support), I would restore an image. [Catching an MBR-virus would be fatal, and a complete fresh installation of XP would be unavoidable IMHO].

NightOwl, I am so grateful for the effort and the time you have invested in this thread to make things clearer to me, and for the valuable informations  Smiley

However, a few weeks ago I've told about my real problem in the following thread


[I sincerely hope that you & the other moderators and the users will forgive me this kinda "double posting"]:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1316881690

... whenever you will find the time to help me with this, I would be particularly grateful.

henriette  Kiss 

 

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Re: need confirmation - Ghost 2003 + Wind 7
Reply #14 - Oct 18th, 2011 at 5:47am
 
NightOwl,

Quote:
Based on what I've read from your posts, I'm guessing you have not tried to install the Windows Ghost 2003 interface software--you just are using Ghost 2003 from a DOS boot floppy--correct?

I do all the imaging work booted into DOS from a floppy created in Ghost 2003.

I have installed Ghost 2003 on Windows XP SP3 Professional only to browse images and extract individual files. It doesn't happen very often but if I didn't install Ghost 2003, I'm 100 % certain that ... Roll Eyes ... I would need it!

I'll try to install Ghost 2003 on Windows 7 Professional 64 bit and report back.
 

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