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2003 & BCD Question (Read 9210 times)
Big_Al
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2003 & BCD Question
Oct 31st, 2011 at 10:39am
 

                                                  October 31, 2011

Guys/Gals,

   Can someone explain to me why images of NTFS C: partitions made

with Ghost have to be "fixed" because of problems with the BCD?

   Is there any way you can go into an Image made to the HDD via

Ghost Explorer and fix it and THEN burn it to a CD/DVD?

Thanks,

Al
 
 
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U Look Like U Saw A Ghost
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 5:57pm
 
Windows Vista introduced the BCD, a non human readable binary file, replacing the Boot ini, an easily modifyable plain text file.

Ghost 2003 predates Vista, & therefore cannot make any needed amendmants.

Big_Al wrote on Oct 31st, 2011 at 10:39am:
Is there any way you can go into an Image made to the HDD via

Ghost Explorer and fix it and THEN burn it to a CD/DVD?



Easy BCD "may" be able to do what you sugest but, I am only guessing.
 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 7:10pm
 
Dear U,

    Thanks for the input, I'll check out EasyBCD.  However, the first question still remains unanswered.

    If Ghost is supposed to make an EXACT duplicate of a partition, disk, etc... WHY is the resulting image of a NTFS partition different than the original?  I've been using Ghost since v5.1 and have NEVER had a problem with restoring an image, as long as it passed the CRC Check when I made it.

Anyone???

Big Al
 
 
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Brian
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 7:55pm
 
@
Big_Al

You can find the Ghost 2003/Win7 fix in here...

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1265924057/0
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 6:58am
 
Al,

You're under the mistaken impression that Ghost makes exact clones.  It does not, and in fact an exact clone is almost never what you want, anyway.  What you want is a copy of the original that will boot properly, just like the original.

Windows NT introduced methods of keeping track of partitions from one boot to the next, as well as a bootloader capable of loading more than one particular operating system--Microsoft's so-called multibooting method.  Even if you aren't multibooting, these enhancements to Windows have side effects on whether or not an exact copy would boot correctly.  If you made an exact clone it wouldn't necessarily boot correctly or might misinterpret which partition contained particular information it needed to boot correctly.  To make the copy boot correctly you often need to tweak or adjust something ... and once you do that, you no longer have an exact clone.  So understand that the way the term is typically used, "clone" is a misnomer.

Unless you need it for some sort of forensic detective work, you're probably less interested in how closely each sector on the copy matches the original than you are in how closely the copy operates like the original.  Cloning/imaging developers know that, and their programs try to figure out what needs to be tweaked to achieve that goal.

It's not just Win7 that needs to be "fixed"--perhaps you haven't realized Ghost has all along been fixing your XP clones, too.  In the case of Windows NT/2000/XP, it may need to edit the boot.ini file to make the copy work correctly.  In the case of Vista/Win7, it's the BCD store.  Thus, "U" did in fact answer your question--since Ghost 2003 predated BCD technology, it is not equipped to adjust the BCD store if/when that is necessary.  Without knowledge of the BCD Ghost 2003 can still make a clone but, as stated, those clones won't always work.

With specific forensic-mode exceptions, you'll find that Ghost, like all modern "cloning" programs, never makes an exact sector-by-sector clone of the source.  (I haven't seen a program that makes exact clones as a matter of routine since the demise of PowerQuest's Drive Image 2002 and Win98/ME.)  There are many more differences than just the boot.ini.  They generally do not copy the swap file, the hibernation file, the recycle bin, or Microsoft restore points.  They copy files instead of sectors, which has several convenient side effects that enhance portability, including: you can restore to different drive geometry; you can restore to a larger or smaller-sized partition; the MFT may restore to a more optimized location; and files that were fragmented on the source are restored unfragmented.




 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 10:25pm
 
Guys,

   I found this and it puts it in a nutshell.

http://community.norton.com/t5/Other-Norton-Products/Ghost-2003-and-Windows-7/td...

It's the Windows 7 SRP.

Brian K

    "When installing Win7 you can avoid creating a SRP by installing into a

pre-created partition. You can create the partition from a WinXP or a Win7

Disk Management. Or a third party partitioning app. When you are running

the Win7 install, click Advanced and run another Quick Format on the partition."

Dave H

    "Thats when I realized I never had a problem using ghost 2003 and windows 7

when others I know have.  I always create the partition first so I don't end up

with a SRP and I always use partition magic to do it."


Big Al
 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #6 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 12:01pm
 
My own answer to the problem of Ghost not making restorable and bootable copies of C:, with Vista or Win-7, came in this very forum.
I can't remember now, if it was a post in a forum or a PM, but I got the answer none the less.
It's "Ghost 11.5".   One expert said that it does not even exist, but lo and behold, there it was.  I even found it on a Hiren's Boot CD.  (not the latest version, however)

If you like the DOS interface of Ghost 2003, then you'll love 11.5 because it looks and runs exactly like 2003. 
The only downside is that it's too big to fit on a 3.5" floppy disk like 2003.  It must be run from either a Flash Drive or CD.  It can't write to the error.log on a CD so running it from a Flash Drive is much better.

I use it at least once a week to back up my own system and I've found it works as well on Windows 7 or even Win-8 as it does on XP.

You probably won't get it from Symantec, as they deny it even exists.  Wink Grin Grin Grin
Ce la vie.

Cheers Mates!
Cool

PS:  Just for grins and giggles, I'm on windows 7 Ultimate 64 right now, after using Ghost 11.5 on a Flash Drive to backup, check and restore this hard drive.  Win 7 is working beautifully.  Mark up another success. Wink
 

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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 2:09am
 
@
OldCasper

I remember that comment about Ghost 11.5 not existing. I guess some regard the 11 as a Roman 2.

Which method of using Ghost 11.5 do you prefer? On my test computer, Ghost ran five times faster in WinPE than in DOS.
 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 11:09am
 
@
OldCasper and
@
Brian

Quote:
One expert said that it does not even exist

Quote:
I remember that comment about Ghost 11.5 not existing

I don't remember that!  Could either of you point me to the thread where that statement occurred?  If I did see it, right now I can not recall it!

@
OldCasper

First of all, what constitutes an *expert*?  Just because someone posts on this forum does not automatically make them an *expert*!


Quote:
You probably won't get it from Symantec, as they deny it even exists

Really!  Who said that!

And, under what circumstances was that statement made?  If the discussion was about where to purchase Ghost version 11.5--it, in fact, does not exist for sale!  You can purchase the Corporate version of Ghost--Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) version 2.5 (minimum purchase requires five licenses, and at $30 to $35 per license--that will cost about $150--$175).  Included in that Suite will be (along with a lot of other software) *ghost.exe* and *ghost32.exe*--and these pieces of software are Ghost version 11.5.

Quote:
I even found it on a Hiren's Boot CD

For those who may be new to these discussions, what *OldCasper* is referring to is finding a *pirated* version of Symantec's copyrighted Ghost software--Hiren's Boot CD is noted for having Warez software on it.

We here at Radified forums do not promote the using of pirated, copyrighted software.  If someone uses the forums to distribute pirated software--well, you're likely to see your forum privileges revoked!
 

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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 11:17am
 
@
Brian

Quote:
Which method of using Ghost 11.5 do you prefer? On my test computer, Ghost ran five times faster in WinPE than in DOS.

Just to clarify for someone who may be *new* to discussions about Corporate Ghost software--there are two different *forms* of Ghost 11.5:

1.  A DOS version that is loaded after booting to DOS from suitable boot media.

2.  A Windows based (32-bit) version that has to run under some form of Windows--any of the regular Windows OS's--since WinXP (I don't know if it can run under Win98!).  Or it can run under the *lite* versions of Windows, i.e. WinPE, or under BartsPE as well.

So, apples and oranges, and one needs to clarify which software version is being referenced--one does not work on the other OS.
 

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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 2:20pm
 
@
NightOwl

NightOwl wrote on Nov 5th, 2011 at 11:09am:
Could either of you point me to the thread where that statement occurred? 


I wish I could find it. It was Nigel Bree. In one of his last posts before he departed from the forum.
 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #11 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 6:21pm
 
That's true..... it was Nigel, one of the Ghost originators.
I've been using Ghost since 1997 when I started using their Trial version and I'm pretty sure Nigel had something to do with that.

Regardless of what you might want to call it, to berate me some more, Ghost 11.5, the package, comes with three programs (or more).  Ghost 11.5 DOS, Ghost32.exe the windows version and Ghost Explorer which can open any Ghost backup file and restore files or folders back to the HD.
I've used that very seldom, but it's still nice to have.

I'm just so Old School, that I much prefer to do my backups from a DOS boot disk.  With that, I can back up a working Windows drive, or a storage drive with NO OS.
A friend tells me it will also back up his Linux drive.
Ghost 11.5 (that's 11 not 2) will back up any drive with an OS from DOS to windows 8, which I'm now testing.  I just did a backup and restore on Win-8 this morning and it worked great.

From that same DOS boot disk, I can run batch files to clean out all the junk from the HD before the actual backup is run.  I save about 5 to 6 gigs from my backup Image Files, by cleaning out all the junk first.

Cool
 

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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #12 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 8:01pm
 
@
OldCasper

OldCasper wrote on Nov 5th, 2011 at 6:21pm:
I save about 5 to 6 gigs from my backup Image Files, by cleaning out all the junk first.


That certainly is a lot of files. I doubt I have more than 10 MB being removed by CCleaner. What files are you able to remove?
 
 
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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #13 - Nov 6th, 2011 at 11:04am
 
Well, every temp file, .bak file, etc, plus the Pagefile, old restore points, Quarantine Files, cache files, ......
Get the picture?

Anything that's not absolutely needed, gets the axe.
Till recently, I was backing up my entire C: drive to a single DVD, using Ghost's HIGH compression mode.
But I've added so many new programs to my C: drive, that it now takes two DVD's to do the backup.

I still back up C: to D: in less than ten minutes, using FAST compression.  D: is the storage partition on my main HD.

Cheers Mates!
Casper  Cool
 

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Re: 2003 & BCD Question
Reply #14 - Nov 6th, 2011 at 10:51pm
 
@
Brian

Quote:
It was Nigel Bree

Thanks Brian.  I vaguely remember that thread.  I don't think I participated in that discussion, but didn't it have something to do with The Shadow and his posting of links to pirated Ghost 11.x software?

After warning The Shadow to stop posting such links, and he did not stop--he was banned from the forum.

 

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