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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA (Read 8717 times)
Bubu
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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm
 
Hi,

I joined this forum after a search, but the subject title was "Planning to clone a whole SATA drive: any recommandations?", and the posts were dated in 2011.

I have a tip and a question.

I love G2003, use it to clone my PATA to a secondary PATA via IDE, using the DOS floppy: works like a charm (making sure to choose the "Image Boot" option).

When I tried to do the same for a laptop via USB (10 years ago) to a 2.5" (identical to the one used in the laptop) mounted in an external USB enclosure, I did a lot of searching, but finally got code modifications that functioned (verified by swapping the HDs)....alas it uses USB1, thus a couple of days for 40GB! Which I didn't mind as I could do it when away for business. I still use that old laptop and its back-up procedure for ultimate back-up. If anybody is interested in the code, I can forward the files for the two floppies needed.

Now the question: I have a HP tower with a SATA drive, but the second docking SATA connector is not loaded on the motherboard. I tried to combine that SATA with a PATA. Didn't work on the PATA #1 connector. When connecting the PATA HD on the PATA #2 connector (blue) (suggested by web search results), everything looked fine (Windows could recognize it and I could access everything on it), but when I tried to use G2003....disaster: impossible to recover. I had to rebuild the main HD from scratch. In fact, I was warned from a site during my search that this would happen.
Now, what are my option(s), given the fact that:
1 - I don't have a second SATA docking on my motherboard
2 - I want to keep cloning (not imaging) bootable disks
3 - I prefer to stick with G2003
4 - I don't want to use PATA/SATA converters, given the horror stories I see on the web (anyway, I don't see why it wouldn't produce the same behavior as when directly connecting a PATA, as described above)?

I know the answer may be there on the posts, but I am a little overwhelmed by the quantity of messages, and I would really appreciate if someone could summarize an answer! Thanks in advance.
XP Home SP3 - 320 GB HD.
 
 
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Re: Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #1 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:24pm
 
This Topic was moved here from Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board by NightOwl.

This post was moved from this thread:  http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1339152717

It did not appear to be relavant to that topic.
 

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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #2 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:53pm
 
@
Bubu

Bubu wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
I did a lot of searching, but finally got code modifications that functioned (verified by swapping the HDs)....alas it uses USB1, thus a couple of days for 40GB! Which I didn't mind as I could do it when away for business. I still use that old laptop and its back-up procedure for ultimate back-up. If anybody is interested in the code, I can forward the files for the two floppies needed.

I'm always interested in how unique problems have been worked out--so if you're willing, I'll listen....

Bubu wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
Now, what are my option(s), given the fact that:

I see the *facts* that make the most efficient option(s) not available (creating images would serve you far better), but I don't see the *facts* that allow for a discussion as to what other options could be considered.  The only clear *fact* is you want to do direct disk to disk cloning.  And your motherboard apparently has one SATA port being used by your main HDD and there is a PATA controller available.

Bubu wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
but the second docking SATA connector is not loaded on the motherboard.

So, there's a second SATA port available, but for some reason you do not wish to use it--why not?  Any other SATA ports available?

Is there a floppy drive for booting Ghost 2003 from floppies?

What USB options are available?  More than one USB controller chip on the motherboard--or just the north/south bridge USB controller?  What is the approx. manufacture date of your motherboard?  What north/south bridge chip is being used on the motherboard? 

Any add-on USB controller cards to one of the motherboard's add-on slots?

Is there an optical drive?  SATA or PATA?  And hooked up to which controller port?

Answer the various questions above and we'll have a better idea of what might be doable.
 

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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #3 - Feb 25th, 2013 at 11:16am
 
Thanks NightOwl for the quick answer.

First I have to correct a mistake: it's a XP-Pro SP3, NOT Home.
Motherboard Asus about 10 yars old. I am not an expert at USB controller chips. There are no PCI mounted controllers (Pata, nor SATA, nor USB).

Here is the info I have from "System Information3 about USB:

Brother HL-2130 series      USBPRINT\BROTHERHL-2130_SERIES\6&398E49FC&1&USB001
Generic USB CF Reader USB Device      USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_GENERIC&PROD_USB_CF_READER&REV_1.01\9205291&1
Generic USB MS Reader USB Device      USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_GENERIC&PROD_USB_MS_READER&REV_1.03\9205291&3
Generic USB SD Reader USB Device      USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_GENERIC&PROD_USB_SD_READER&REV_1.00\9205291&0
Generic USB SM Reader USB Device      USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_GENERIC&PROD_USB_SM_READER&REV_1.02\9205291&2
Generic volume      STORAGE\REMOVABLEMEDIA\7&37786A0B&0&RM
Generic volume      STORAGE\REMOVABLEMEDIA\7&23415857&0&RM
Generic volume      STORAGE\REMOVABLEMEDIA\7&168E5AC5&0&RM
Generic volume      STORAGE\REMOVABLEMEDIA\7&7AD55DB&0&RM
HID Keyboard Device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_00\7&154893CC&0&0000
HID Keyboard Device      HID\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_00\7&D0AAECD&0&0000
HID-compliant consumer control device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_01&COL02\7&2D0C2011&0&0001
HID-compliant consumer control device      HID\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_01&COL02\7&16CC8EF5&0&0001
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_01&COL03\7&2D0C2011&0&0002
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_01&COL04\7&2D0C2011&0&0003
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_02&COL01\7&934E24F&0&0000
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_02&COL02\7&934E24F&0&0001
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_02&COL03\7&934E24F&0&0002
HID-compliant device      HID\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_01&COL01\7&16CC8EF5&0&0000
HID-compliant mouse      HID\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_01&COL01\7&2D0C2011&0&0000
HID-compliant mouse      HID\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_01&COL03\7&16CC8EF5&0&0002
Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller      PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24DD&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&EF
Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller      PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24D2&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&E8
Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller      PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24D4&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&E9
Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller      PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24D7&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&EA
Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller      PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24DE&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&EB
USB Composite Device      USB\VID_046D&PID_C52B\5&3AD090D&0&1
USB Composite Device      USB\VID_040B&PID_2000\5&3AD090D&0&2
USB Human Interface Device      USB\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_00\6&2684D1CB&0&0000
USB Human Interface Device      USB\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_01\6&2684D1CB&0&0001
USB Human Interface Device      USB\VID_046D&PID_C52B&MI_02\6&2684D1CB&0&0002
USB Human Interface Device      USB\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_00\6&212BB54D&0&0000
USB Human Interface Device      USB\VID_040B&PID_2000&MI_01\6&212BB54D&0&0001
USB Mass Storage Device      USB\VID_058F&PID_9360\9205291
USB Printing Support      USB\VID_04F9&PID_003F\H1N549790
USB Root Hub      USB\ROOT_HUB\4&CB41D3B&0
USB Root Hub      USB\ROOT_HUB\4&1C4B7D9B&0
USB Root Hub      USB\ROOT_HUB\4&1FCB28C&0
USB Root Hub      USB\ROOT_HUB\4&24D2BE59&0
USB Root Hub      USB\ROOT_HUB20\4&F180E13&0

If you read my original post: yes, I have a PATA controller, two optical disks connected to the "second" "blue" PATA controller. Yes I have a floppy drive as I tried to use my G2003 DOS floppies in my mixed SATA/PATA trials.
I no longer have the original G2003 CDROMs, but just those bootable diskette (downloadable copy on my web site: Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program.).

As far as if people may be interested in the modified-code G2003 that allows USB cloning (beware: USB1!): 1st floppy (must be bootable) Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program., second floppy (which will be prompted) Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program..

As stated in my original post I only have one SATA connector available: a second position on the motherboard is not physically loaded. I guess the SATA controller should be able to handle both positions, but I would have to do a messy operation: clear up from solder the holes for that second connector, find a connector (probably Molex), and then pray.
If they didn't load that second connector, could it be that they configured the BIOS accordingly.

I don't understand why an imaging, vs. cloning, is preferable. Please enlighten me.

Thanks in advance for your attention.
 
 
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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2013 at 1:43pm
 
@
Bubu

Quote:
I don't understand why an imaging, vs. cloning, is preferable. Please enlighten me.


Please see Reply #7

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1132968474;start=7#7
 
 
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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2013 at 8:57am
 
@
Bubu

Bubu wrote on Feb 25th, 2013 at 11:16am:
I no longer have the original G2003 CDROMs, but just those bootable diskette (downloadable copy on my web site: Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program.).

As far as if people may be interested in the modified-code G2003 that allows USB cloning (beware: USB1!): 1st floppy (must be bootable) Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program, second floppy (which will be prompted) Link to download file removed--contains copyright protected .exe program.

I have removed your direct link to those downloadable files--they contain a copy of *ghost.exe* which is copyrighted, protected software which Symantec has not released to the public domain. 

We have to protect Radified.com from being accused of hosting and/or the unauthorized distribution of copies of Symantec's intellectual property.

If you wish to, you could simply remove the copy of *ghost.exe* from the files and re-post the links--just indicate where an individual would need to place their own legal copy of *ghost.exe* in the downloaded file to make them *complete*.

Thank you for your understanding.
 

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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 4:28pm
 
I will do that (post ZIPs without the ;exe file).

Now what about the main question: how to configure an hardware scheme in order to do SATA clone given I have only one SATA port? Wink
 
 
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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2013 at 10:30am
 
@
Bubu

Bubu wrote on Feb 25th, 2013 at 11:16am:
Motherboard Asus about 10 yars old

Could you post the Asus motherboard model number--Asus usually has its old hardware still on their website so you can view the specifications, download drivers, and see the User Guide, etc......

Bubu wrote on Feb 27th, 2013 at 4:28pm:
how to configure an hardware scheme in order to do SATA clone given I have only one SATA port?

Well, it depends on what you want to accomplish--and how......if you want to do a direct drive to drive clone (i.e. SATA to SATA), then the only two options I can think of is:

1.  add a SATA controller to one of the PCI slots so that you can have a second SATA HDD hooked up to the system.  There would have to be an appropriate power source plug for a SATA HDD as well.  An Add-on SATA PCI card might have an e-SATA port on the back side so you don't have to necessarily have the HDD installed internally--but there would have to be an external power source for the e-SATA drive in that case.

2.  or, possibly, you could purchase a USB external drive adapter that allows for hooking up a PATA HDD, SATA HDD or 2.5 laptop sized HDD.  You could then hook up the SATA HDD, attach the included power supply cord, and then you route the adaptor to a USB port.  Here are some examples: 

Rosewill RCW-618 USB to IDE/SATA Adapter

Vantec 2.5"/3.5"/5.25" SATA/IDE to USB 2.0 Adapter - Model CB-ISATAU2

Rosewill RCW-608 USB2.0 Adapter For IDE/SATA Device

Based on this:

Bubu wrote on Feb 25th, 2013 at 11:16am:
Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host ControllerPCI\VEN_8086&DEV_24DD&SUBSYS_80A61043&REV_02\3&267A616A&0&EF

you have a USB 2.0 controller from the Intel north/south bridge chipset--so you will have USB 2.0 speeds to work with. 

Do you have the Ghost 2003 provided DOS USB 2.0 driver to use when booted to DOS?  If *Yes*, then you will have the faster speed than the 1.x you mentioned that you used for your laptop.

Because you are sending the cloning data through that USB conversion adapter (I have not tried this!), the process might not translate 1 for 1--so the results may not work--but only trying will answer the question.  When done cloning, remove your original SATA drive and replace it with the cloned drive and test to see if it boots and all works well.

But, you said this:

Bubu wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
4 - I don't want to use PATA/SATA converters, given the horror stories I see on the web 

Not sure of what *horror stories* you may be referring to....but, if you don't want to give that a try--then you have to consider other options.....

Bubu wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
I tried to combine that SATA with a PATA. Didn't work on the PATA #1 connector. When connecting the PATA HD on the PATA #2 connector (blue) (suggested by web search results), everything looked fine (Windows could recognize it and I could access everything on it), but when I tried to use G2003....disaster: impossible to recover. I had to rebuild the main HD from scratch.

So, I wasn't there to see what actually happened--what went wrong?  ....what *disaster*?  ....*main HDD*?????....are we talking about the source SATA HDD?  The source HDD should never be effected by a cloning procedure...unless you create two HDDs on the same system and preserve the HDD ID (by cloning it--Ghost 2003's default behavior is to erase the HDD ID on the destination HDD, but you can use cloning *switches* to over-ride that and force the HDD ID to be transferred to the destination HDD), and then leaving both HDDs on the system upon next boot--now Windows sees two *identical* HDDs and may make a mess of things!  Your source HDD may be at risk in this case--is that what happened?

So, here's another thought:  use Ghost 2003 to *clone* disk to disk, from your SATA HDD to a PATA HDD.  Once done--don't attempt to re-boot-- remove the original source SATA HDD, and replace it with a replacement SATA HDD.  Now *clone* back from the PATA HDD to the replacement SATA HDD.  Remove the PATA HDD and leave the SATA HDD in place--re-boot and test the results.

But, what's your intentions?  Do you want to change the HDD *gender* from SATA to PATA and be able to boot from the PATA and abandon the SATA?  Can that be done?  Well, maybe.  Ghost 2003 is not the problem here--it's the Windows OS!  It does not want to allow a different HDD controller to take over from that which was originally set up during installation to the SATA HDD.  One can do a *Repair Install* that can force WinXP to switch which HDD controller driver software is *in charge*, but this is not for the *faint of heart*--there are other consequences--the repair install removes all the updates and service packs since the release of the installation disc, reverts Internet Explorer to v6.x (I've read somewhere that if you have already upgraded to IE 7.x or above, that the repair install may fail unless you first revert your IE back to 6.x first).  I've never done a SATA to PATA repair install--but, I did do a HighPoint to Promise RAID controller repair install back when my systems where still using IE 6.x--and, it did succeed!  TeraByte's cloning software has the ability to convert HDD controllers--Brian could help with that if you're interested.

Or, is what you really want is to have a functional backup SATA HDD in waiting in case your current original SATA HDD dies and you need to swap it out with the replacement?
 

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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #8 - Feb 28th, 2013 at 11:34am
 
@
Bubu

So, ran out of available space for total character per post in the last post--so to continue:

NightOwl wrote on Feb 28th, 2013 at 10:30am:
Or, is what you really want is to have a functional backup SATA HDD in waiting in case your current original SATA HDD dies and you need to swap it out with the replacement? 

This is probably the number one concept of how best to use *cloning* software that folks bring to the forum--it certainly works!--but, it's terribly inefficient!

Why?  Cloning disk to disk creates a single mirror copy of the source HDD onto the destination drive.  You have to attach the destination HDD and then remove it after cloning (to potentially avoid having the OS see two *identical* HDDs unless you have taken appropriate precautions).  And that's it!  It sits on the shelf waiting for the original source HDD to fail.  Then, when you want to update your backup HDD, you have to reattach it, overwrite it with a new *clone* and put it back on the self.

A more efficient use of cloning software is to use its ability to create HDD images.  You don't actually have a physical HDD backup--you have a software file that has the equivalence of a HDD backkup.

With your setup, you could put a PATA HDD in the system to hold the image files--it's good practice to keep the image files on another HDD separate from the HDD you want to backup--so those images are not lost if the source HDD dies suddenly.

The cloning software typically does not backup unnecessary data that is not *necessary*--this includes such things as the *page file*, the *hibernation file* if used, and there are others--so the image does not have to have all the extra data included--Windows recreates those upon first re-boot.  And all the *empty* space is ignored--only HDD space that's in use is backed up.  So, if you have a 320 GB SATA HDD with maybe only 40 GB of actual data on it, then the image file need be only about 40 GB, but if the page file, hibernation file, etc. are eliminated, and you use compression, maybe the final image file will be 30 to 35 GB in size.  So, if you have a 160 GB PATA HDD hooked up to that PATA controller--you can have 3-4 backup images of your SATA HDD on that PATA HDD.  If you do monthly backups, you have image files that protect you back 3-4 months instead of a single whole HDD disk to disk clone of a single point in time. 

Now, your source SATA HDD fails--you remove it, install the replacement SATA HDD, and restore the desired image to that new HDD (this is the *cloning* step when using image files!).  Re-boot and you have your OS up and running on that new SATA HDD.

Better yet--if you have some sort of software malfunction--such as installing a new program that somehow fails--or you get a virus infection that can not be *cleaned* or removed--just restore your most recent image and you're back to that point where you created the image to start over--no HDD swapping at all!  I typically make an image backup prior to any *major* upgrades to complex software that could cause possible problems.

So, the only time you have to unhook and rehook up HDDs is when a HDD actually fails--or if you're testing the setup to see if your recovery setup works as expected using a spare SATA HDD to test the image restore process.

You can also reduce the size of the image files you backup to just the necessary OS and program files if you have planned ahead and created a separate OS/program partition and a separate data partition.

And, you should always do an *Integrity Check* of the image files.  It's a *trial run* that Ghost does to determine if it can access all the data in the image file for restoring.  The only way to do something similar using disk to disk cloning is to swap the destination HDD for the source HDD and boot to see if it will boot properly.  (You might then ask--*how do I know my restored image will boot?*--well, I always buy my spare main OS backup HDD ahead of time--I then do a test image restore to (after removing the original source HDD for safe keeping off the system!) the spare HDD, reboot to the new HDD and check everything out.  If no problems occur, I continue using that new HDD and put the original HDD on the shelf until I might need it--and use image files to back up the currently installed main OS HDD.)

So, questions?

 

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Re: G2003, WinXP, USB, SATA, PATA
Reply #9 - Mar 28th, 2013 at 11:46am
 
FYI there are SATA adapters that have up to 4 SATA ports such as the 1 at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124020, and there are others that have external posts too if you decide to go that way.  Also not all chipsets work correctly with optical drives, and you need to get 1 with Silicon Image chipset if you want to have SATA opticl drives work correctly which you may since PATA optical drives are getting harder to find.
 
 
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