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Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's (Read 66736 times)
roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #75 - Oct 11th, 2013 at 11:51am
 
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He better be careful... that's right across the strait from Papua New Guinea... those headhunters/cannibals, you know... Grin
-------------------------------------
Meanwhile... back at the ranch (or on topic)...

Got the optiplex usff's I bought off ebay for a ridiculously low price... both work good... put new cmos batteries in both...
one came with xp pro, the other with w7home...

Got the 500gb drive with one 15gb partition in one of the machines... ready to put *my* XP PRO sp3 on it.
Will activate, and download all the updates... then defrag and image it.

Do the same with w7 pro... generalize it and image...
then I can repartition the drive and put all the OSs on it I want to...

I've always heard that computers save so much time... then why do I spend so much more time getting them ready??  Roll Eyes

It's a good thing Brian is gone fishing... will give me time to do the above... I hope Smiley
and then he can help me figure out how to partition the drive for BIBM.... and what I want  Wink

(hopefully next week I can put the laptop back into its box... and never never never never never have to work on it again)  Cool
-----------------------------------------
*my* xp pro= nlite used to remove all the junk not needed... add drivers, etc...
 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #76 - Oct 13th, 2013 at 1:19am
 
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roxe

Quote:
Got the 500gb drive with one 15gb partition in one of the machines... ready to put *my* XP PRO sp3 on it.
Will activate, and download all the updates... then defrag and image it.

Do the same with w7 pro... generalize it and image...
then I can repartition the drive and put all the OSs on it I want to...

So, you have decided to start with fresh installs instead of transferring your existing OSs to the new system?

Did you ever find a caddy that allows you to add a second HDD to the system?




 

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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #77 - Oct 14th, 2013 at 12:18am
 
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NightOwl wrote on Oct 13th, 2013 at 1:19am:
So, you have decided to start with fresh installs instead of transferring your existing OSs to the new system?


Yeah, and I'll tell you why... got a new 2.5 hdd and used my xppro image on it... found out by using the Piriform Defraggler program, that the original drive had bad clusters on it... and they imaged right over to the new drive  Shocked Roll Eyes

So I installed from scratch on the new hdd after deleting the partition and putting it back and reformatting... and no bad clusters!!

I'll use BIBM for my boot mgr for now... and then after awhile, I'll play around with it, cuz I'll have the new install on the 2.5 new hdd to try to port to the usff...

The usff doesn't have a floppy drive... and I've put the AHCI files into the install using n-lite... nifty little program Smiley

But it wouldn't install on the usff today... tried a bunch of stuff... so searched on the 'net and found out that if I changed the SATA AHCI (default) to ATA, it would install... but wouldn't have the AHCI...

So did some more research and came up with a web page talking about FlashBoot... so I printed out that page... and got all the apps needed... and made me a flash drive bootable which will make this computer and xp pro install disk think that it is taking the AHCI files from a floppy but is really coming from a flash drive! 

Neat, eh??

So I reformated the install off the partition... getting ready to try this "cheat" tomorrow...

Then I also printed out the neatest guides for n-lite... they used to be a horror story... but these new ones are great... pictures and all...

so I think I'll redo my n-lite install disk first thing tomorrow... put all the updates and stuff on it... take off all the junk I don't want... then we'll see what happens with the *fake* floppy  Grin

The BIOS does have the capability to boot from CD, DVD, flash drive, external SATA drive.. and a couple more I can't remember right now...

AND it's built like a little tank... heavy and solid...

Will be so great to get this all set up... tired of all the wires going everywhere across the living room floor...

About the caddy... the ones you sent me to, are only 12.7mm thick.,.. the ones on the usff are 14mm thick... is that gonna be a problem???

I mean, what is only 1.3mm difference????

Otherwise they *look* like they would work...

maybe I should just buy one and see... eh??
 
 
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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #78 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 11:16pm
 
WHEW!!!!!!

Finally got xp pro installed on the optiplex, AND it is imaged. So amazing... used n-Lite to take my XP Pro OS with sp2 of 583mb, sp3 of 546mb, a Security update pack of 98mb, and the pre-install AHCI driver... removed a bunch of junk (specially that stupid little dog)... and came up with a 388mb install CD... which then became a 3.4gb OS... not bad, eh?
...which imaged into a 1440mb image in less than 5 minutes.

Quote:
then we'll see what happens with the *fake* floppy

Nothing!!!!! Absolutely Nothing!! So looked at my drivers, and saw that I had downloaded the AHCI pre-install driver from the Dell site... so nLited it in... and it works!!

So tomorrow I'll tackle w7 pro... will only need two PCI drivers after installing... and I got 'em...
(note to myself... generalize generalize generalize b4 imaging)

As soon as Brian checks in, I'll need his help in partitioning for BIBM...

Am thinking of putting the BIBM 8mb primary partition first, two more primaries of 15gb each... last primary of extended with the logicals in it.

Will see what he suggests...

I've learned so much these last three days...  which is encouraging... my mind is coming back, my enthusiasm is growing and my sense of humor is recovering... Praise God!!!

I've named my optiplex *tiny tank*... and the workgroup is the *Lazy Duck* Smiley

...just in case any of you are wondering  Wink
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #79 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 3:30am
 
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roxe

Quote:
Finally got xp pro installed on the optiplex, AND it is imaged.

So, you're using Ghost 2003, and booted to DOS from a bootable CD, and you have access to an external USB HDD via the optiplex BIOS (you don't have to load DOS USB drivers)--is that all true?
 

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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #80 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 7:05pm
 
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NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 3:30am:
So, you're using Ghost 2003, and booted to DOS from a bootable CD, and you have access to an external USB HDD via the optiplex BIOS (you don't have to load DOS USB drivers)--is that all true? 

Yep  Grin

And... gues what????

I just did w7pro the same exact way... AFTER I generalized it... neat, eh?

Now, I'm gonna re-image xpp3 back onto the same partition... cuz my 2nd hdd caddy came today and I want to test it... and...
btw...  it is 14mm thick... just like I need Smiley

and then I'll re-image w7pro back to the same partition... test the 2nd hdd with that...
and let you know how things go...

stay tuned...
 
 
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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #81 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 11:20pm
 
To all...

OK...
...BOTH OSs image back to the partition!

The BIOS sees the 2nd hdd caddy with a hdd in it...

XP Pro doesn't see it at all...

W7Pro sees it just fine... along with the files in it.
In Computer, the C drive shows up with a blue-green line along side... the 2nd hdd caddy drive shows up with a RED line along side... is that normal?

In the device mgr of w7pro, the 500gb SATA, and the 128gb SSD SATA *both* show up as ATA devices under Drives... is that normal?

What needs to be done to get xp pro to see that 2nd hdd in the caddy??
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #82 - Oct 18th, 2013 at 2:21am
 
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roxe

roxe wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 7:05pm:
Yep

And... gues what????

I just did w7pro the same exact way... AFTER I generalized it... neat, eh?

What is the laptop's make and model? 

I vaguely remember that you were the first to report being able to use your laptop in that manner--i.e. the BIOS did the *heavy lifting* and allowed Ghost 2003 to access an external USB HDD without having to load DOS USB drivers--and it apparently is USB 2.x support and not USB 1.x support based on the speed you reported.

And, I've only seen one or two other similar reports since then.

roxe wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 7:05pm:
cuz my 2nd hdd caddy came today and I want to test it... and...
btw...it is 14mm thick... just like I need

Could you supply a link for your source for that caddy?  It must be a SATA to SATA caddy for that OptiPlex which appears to have a SATA controller on board.

Quote:
The BIOS sees the 2nd hdd caddy with a hdd in it...

XP Pro doesn't see it at all...

W7Pro sees it just fine... along with the files in it.
In Computer, the C drive shows up with a blue-green line along side... the 2nd hdd caddy drive shows up with a RED line along side... is that normal?

How about a screen shot so we can see what you are talking about?

Must be a missing driver in WinXP if both the BIOS reports seeing the second HDD, and so does Win7--but, don't have a clue what driver that might be!

Quote:
In the device mgr of w7pro, the 500gb SATA, and the 128gb SSD SATA *both* show up as ATA devices under Drives... is that normal?

Both PATA and SATA are *ATA* devices--so I presume that listing in Device Mgr is okay.

A *SSD SATA*--wow, that's new information--is that one of the drives you have been swapping into the laptop with one of your OSs?  Which OS?  What do you think of the performance?
 

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Dan Goodell
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #83 - Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm
 
NightOwl,

Earlier roxe posted a link to a Dell Optiplex 755, which tells us the vintage because Dell's support website only provides XP/Vista drivers for that model, no 2K or 7 drivers.  I think all Dells of that vintage do have USB2 support built into the BIOS.  I have a Dell Inspiron laptop of the same vintage and I have never needed to add a USB driver to my DOS boot disks to use USB drives with DOS.  (FWIW, it doesn't seem to be as optimized as Windows drivers so the USB transfer rate is not particularly speedy, but at least you have access.)

Dell provided the O-755 in your choice of four different case styles: mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, and ultra small form factor.  It sounds like roxe is saying she has the usff case, but I wasn't aware the usff case supported a media bay like she's describing.  The sff cases do, so I wonder if that's really what she's got?  The sff case uses a laptop-style media bay, oriented vertically.   It holds a laptop CD/DVD drive, which can be swapped out for a laptop caddy for a 2.5" laptop HDD.  Hence, the reason those caddy photos posted earlier look reminiscent of laptop CD/DVD drives.

Either the laptop CD/DVD drive or a laptop HDD caddy will mate into a laptop-style proprietary connector inside the O-755's bay.  I don't know about the O-755, but on laptops the connector is soldered directly to the motherboard.  This provides a SATA connection to the motherboard.

In the case of a CD/DVD drive, the drive itself is a generic SATA drive enclosed in a CD caddy, with a bezel to match the shape of the laptop's case and an adapter to mate the CD/DVD's connector to Dell's connector.

A HDD caddy follows the same principle, just the shape and mounting points inside the caddy are different so it will hold a 2.5" HDD instead.  A standard 2.5" SATA laptop HDD mounts in the caddy, with an adapter to mate the HDD's SATA connectors to Dell's connector.  Once the HDD is inserted into the O-755 this way, the computer should treat it as a second SATA HDD and not an external USB HDD.



roxe,

When it comes to the drives, your O-755 is essentially like a laptop, and what you're trying to accomplish is the same scheme I'm using with my newer Dell Latitude laptop:  the main drive is a 250GB SSD and the media bay holds a 750GB HDD in lieu of the CD/DVD drive, the SSD multiboots DOS/XP/7/8, and the second HDD is a data drive that also holds the OS images for backup/restoration.  I'm using BING to multiboot the OS's.

(Aside: I also own BIBM, but there's a couple things in BING I like better so I continue to use it instead.)

(Aside: since I'm generally using virtualization to boot extra OS's, I haven't found a need to multiboot more than 4 OS's on the real hardware.)

Just my two cents... I don't see a reason to give BING/BIBM a dedicated 8MB partition when you can install it in a DOS partition instead.  Doing double-duty just makes that partition more flexible and useful to me.  My first partition is 100MB for DOS/BING/BIBM, and DOS is just another boot option on my BING menu.  From there I can run the DOS versions of Ghost and Terabyte Image, so I don't need any portable media.

As NightOwl said, SATA drives are just another form of ATA, so that's the subsection they'll show up under, though depending on the chipset driver it may identify itself as "Serial ATA".  ATA/PATA/SATA/IDE/SCSI are connection types and go in the same discussion with each other.  AHCI is unrelated--it's a mode and goes in a discussion with RAID and "legacy mode", which unfortunately is also confusingly referred to as "ATA mode".

Since it's just another SATA connection, XP should have no trouble seeing the caddy's HDD.  I wonder if maybe it's some issue with the disk signatures?  Did you clear the [MountedDevices] registry key when you cloned?  Was the DiskID copied to the SSD?  Does the second HDD show up in Disk Management, perhaps without any drive letters?

I've never seen that red line you mentioned, but it sounds like W7 is telling you something's amiss.  I'd start by rechecking your DiskIDs and [MountedDevices].


 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #84 - Oct 19th, 2013 at 7:10pm
 
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NightOwl wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Is the fishing in the estuary, Albatross Bay, or do you go out on the open ocean?


We do both. The fishing guides pick us up from the motel at 7 in the morning and drop us back at 5 in the afternoon. The wind is fairly light at this time of year so we fished about 30 miles down the coast and 10 miles out. Pelagic and reef fish. In the estuaries we targeted barramundi.

Biggest fish caught was a 1.7 metre long Spanish Mackerel but often big sharks took the mackerel and became inadvertently hooked. They were too big to bring in so we locked the reel and broke the line. There were lots of long tail tuna too and they are strong fighters. Great sushi.
 
 
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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #85 - Oct 20th, 2013 at 12:22am
 
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Oh my.... where do I start??

My 0-755 is a USFF... have all the manuals, and it looks exactly like the usff... both inside and out.

I made a 20gb active partition at the beginning of the 500gb hdd, put the drive into the 0-755 and installed xp pro on it first... all the drivers and activated, then took an image of it saved to my 2.5 image hdd.

Then reformatted that same partition, and installed w7pro on it in the 0-755... generalized it and imaged to the same little hdd.

BTW, my image disk starts with *welcome to windows 98.... which is 98se... and since I couldn't get the target drop-down menu to work by the keyboard, you all helped me to put a dos mouse on it and tweaked a file or two to get it working. that is the same exact imaging app I've used since then, except now it is burned on CDs.

I forgot to mention that the drive I have in the caddy is one of my SSD drives that I stupidly got last winter. I had xp pro on it and over the next 6 months, it worked slower and slower... got tired of it and moved back to my regular 2.5" 120gb sata hdds that can take defrag... read lots about the SSDs not holding up as long when defragging them... so quit using them as OS drives, but use them as glorified flash drives now - put all my videos on them. So that tells you what I think of SSD drives.

And yes, I used my current image of my xp pro to put on the SSD drive when I set it up last winter.

As for the link to that caddy, it was one of those two urls on ebay you messaged me...

and am wondering if that is why the red line... cuz a SSD drive is inside. And I set it up as an extended drive cuz I didn't know how to make it just a flash drive... without any partition on it...

Then got to thinking about my n-liting xp pro... cuz I removed all the stuff for iomega, zip, and other removable drives... so I redid the n-liting and left them in this time...reinstalled that, and with all the drivers installed and activated, it came to 3.5gb in size on the hdd.

Still need to test the caddy again on the re-n-lited xp pro to see if it works... tomorrow is another day...


@
Brian

roxe wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 11:16pm:
As soon as Brian checks in, I'll need his help in partitioning for BIBM...

Am thinking of putting the BIBM 8mb primary partition first, two more primaries of 15gb each... last primary of extended with the logicals in it.

Will see what he suggests...


So, Brian, glad to see you back after your great adventure... and you didn't end up in Papua Grin

I am ready to partition the drive for my OSs... and putting the BIBM on... using the three images I've already made using the 0-755 for it...

So if you will be so kind as to help me get this 500gb the way I want it, I'll be so happy to get everything finally done.

I'll be doing the partitioning using the laptop (with my ide to sata adapter...) and then you can walk me thru installing bibm... and learning how to use it as boot mgr... and how to add drives as I put OSs on them... or however the sequence goes...

Will both w7pro and xp pro work from logical drives??

I only want one w7pro... and the rest xp pro... but don't know where is the best place to put them on the hdd... and in what order...
of course, using the three images I've already got to do this with...

Am so tired tonight can hardly think... will be great getting this all done... I've learned so much these past two weeks... and still have much to learn...
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #86 - Oct 20th, 2013 at 12:24am
 
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Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
It sounds like roxe is saying she has the usff case, but I wasn't aware the usff case supported a media bay like she's describing.The sff cases do, so I wonder if that's really what she's got?

If you wonder through the User Manual at the link roxe gave ( ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_optiplex_desktop/o... ), there is a *Front View* of the usff case which shows an optical drive bay.

This is the description: 

Quote:
Picture Item # 7 = module bay

Install a D-module optical drive, second hard drive, or floppy drive in the module bay.


So, I think roxe has it right.
 

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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #87 - Oct 20th, 2013 at 1:09am
 
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Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
Dell's support website only provides XP/Vista drivers for that model, no 2K or 7 drivers

Going into the drivers for my 0-755, and choosing all the drivers, the same two chipset drivers that I used for xp pro sp3 do support w7 (per Dell), cuz I used them in w7pro to take care of the two PCI missing drivers.

I did a google search for installing w7pro, and read lots of personal installs and that's where I found out about those chipset drivers. The third chipset driver has the pre-install drivers for AHCI... and they work, which is how I got xp pro installed.

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
the connector is soldered directly to the motherboard.This provides a SATA connection to the motherboard.

Yes, my motherboard has it soldered directly underneath also...

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
A HDD caddy follows the same principle, just the shape and mounting points inside the caddy are different so it will hold a 2.5" HDD instead.A standard 2.5" SATA laptop HDD mounts in the caddy, with an adapter to mate the HDD's SATA connectors to Dell's connector.Once the HDD is inserted into the O-755 this way, the computer should treat it as a second SATA HDD and not an external USB HDD.

That is exactly how I fitted one of my SSD drives inside... and BIOS treats it just like a internal drive.

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
Since it's just another SATA connection, XP should have no trouble seeing the caddy's HDD.I wonder if maybe it's some issue with the disk signatures?Did you clear the [MountedDevices] registry key when you cloned?Was the DiskID copied to the SSD?Does the second HDD show up in Disk Management, perhaps without any drive letters?

HUH????  You lost me there... I explained in my answer to NightOwl that my first n-lited xp pro I had removed all the iomega, zip and other removable devices... so I redid the n-lite leaving them in... and now need to retry and see if xp pro can see it...

as to the other things you are talking about, you'll need to put it in *for Dummies* style, ok?  It doesn't take much to totally confuse me.

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 18th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
I've never seen that red line you mentioned, but it sounds like W7 is telling you something's amiss.I'd start by rechecking your DiskIDs and [MountedDevices].


I had the OS on the 500gb drive, a 16gb Cruzer Glide flash drive in the usb port... and the 128gb SSD drive in the caddy... all at the same time. The OS and the flash was the blue-green color... the SSD drive was the red color...

I formatted the SSD drive as an extended drive...
for information... are flash sticks done that way? or are they formatted differently... if differently, is it possible to format the SSD drive like a flash stick?

If you (or someone) would tell me what both paragraphs mean, and how to check the things you mentioned, then I can try to follow the instructions...

all right... beddy bye time... Smiley
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #88 - Oct 20th, 2013 at 1:57am
 
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roxe

You mentioned three images. WinXP, Win7 but what is the third?

OK, the 500 GB HD is in the Optiplex. No other HDs should be connected. Boot the BIBM CD and delete all partitions on the drive. When the HD is entirely Free Space, click Reboot but leave the CD in the tray.

On this occasion you will install BIBM.

Setup... Click OK to install BootIt ...
Setup... Put a tick in Change all MBR type drives to EMBR and don't click Yes to enable support for more than 4 primary partitions
Setup... Click Yes to let setup choose the partition for you
Setup... Click Yes to install to a dedicated partition. No tick in Install to any drive
Setup... Click OK to begin
Setup... Click OK for Setup completed successfully
click Close
Setup... Click OK for the Remove the boot disk and click OK to restart

BIBM should now boot from the HD and the BIBM partition should be at the start of the HD in Partition Work. Is this correct? (When BIBM loads, click Maintenance to get to the BIBM desktop)

Next stage is to create partitions and to restore the images.




 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's
Reply #89 - Oct 20th, 2013 at 12:52pm
 
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Brian wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 1:57am:
You mentioned three images. WinXP, Win7 but what is the third?

1) *xp pro basic* with just the apps I want on each xp partition - will add other apps later for each
2) *w7pro*
3) *xp pro internet* (xppi)... already enhanced with the apps I want on this flavor... (using right now) Smiley

BTW, the laptop is in its box and stored high on a shelf in the clothes closet... and I don't want to get it back down or use it at all to come here for the instructions of partitioning and restoring... and then have to put it back up there.

Brian wrote on Oct 20th, 2013 at 1:57am:
Next stage is to create partitions and to restore the images.

OK... but I refuse to use the laptop any more...

so I would appreciate the instructions in numerical order below - and any others you think I'd need -
*before* I start this...

0) how big will the bibm partition be?  8mb??

1) how to create partitions

2) which partition will be the *active* one??

3) I want each OS in its *own* partition...

4) I want to put xppi on the first partition after bibm... then w7pro... then the extended drive...

5) do I need to know how many logicals I want and what size they will be?   or can I wait to size out and image the first five of the logicals *after* getting the OSs in #4 done?

6) can I use my ghost CD for imaging?

7) I need to know how to *go into* and use the boot mgr to put my OSs in the start order after imaging them... so I can choose which one to boot up... (xppi to be the *default* one if no choice is made)

8) how to hide all the other OSs not being used after one is chosen... but leave the data logicals be seen for each OS...

...etc


I really appreciate your help in this... have read the manual and you are helping me to understand what it is saying... plus, you have such great enthusiasm for this program...

Am reading the manual *again* right now...

And if there is anything I have questions on in your instructions... I'll ask *before* going thru all this...

OK?   Smiley
 
 
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