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NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost (Read 14229 times)
RV_Roadie
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NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Jan 9th, 2005 at 8:57pm
 
I have two desktops that run NTFS and have Ghost 2003 images that worked fine recently when I had a hard drive crash.  I burned them to DVD+RW which took a loooooong time.  I thought that doing  DVDRW image would make it bootable but it didn't.  However, I used the eMachines restore disks, which also use Ghost, then loaded Ghost, and used restore from Windows XP and voila!  Perfect restore.

Boy am I tickled.

More so when I found I could also back up images to my 120GB external Hard drive via USB 2.0 in only 15 mins or so.  I expect to have to do the same thing, restore in about 15 mins to the original state, then restore the last image from Windows after reinstalling Ghost 2003.  No problem there.

I just repaired my old PIII 700 laptop, which hs a floppy but no CD or DVD burner.  It does have a DVD player and CD reader.

I reformtted the external drive to NTFS, never expecting to ant to do a Ghost image to a Win 98SE computer.  The laptop has firewire, but even though it read the drive before, and yes I downloaded the MS firewire patch, it won't read it, or even admit it is there with NTFS.

So I figured I'd just save my images to the drive in my newest computer, and reformat the external drive to FAT 32 and copy them back.

Error!  Even though the external NTFS drive is read as drive E by my new computers, when I go to format it the only option I have in WindowsXP is NTFS!

I can't do it from the laptop, and I have no image to redo the laptop from except trying to load the Win 98 SE and the drivers if there is  crash, and build it from scratch.

When I installed my new hard drive in the laptop last time, I had to send it back to the company, Sager, as the drivers would not load.

Is there anybody that has a suggestion so I can convert my external drive back to FAT32, or rather reformat it in FAT 32, which all my computers can read and write to?

A second question.  If I save my NTFS images to FAT 32 on the external drive will they restore as well as they did from DVD?

Thanks in advance.
 
 
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RV_Roadie
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #1 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 8:59pm
 
OOPs,
I am using Norton Systemworks Pro 2003.  I didn't have it, instead had 2002 before the laptop died so could not do an image to the external drive on it.  When it was FAT 32 the external drive connected great to the laptop via firewire.  THe laptop is 98SE.
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 9:47pm
 
Have you resolved the problem?
 
 
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RV_Roadie
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 9:58pm
 
Nope!  I just added that since the laptop died I got 2003 and started using it woth my new computers.  My external drive can't be read by my laptop Via firewire as I re-formatted the external drive to NTFS after the laptop drive died.  I have no problem with re-formatting the external drive back to FAT 32, and asked if that can be done,and if the images of my NTFS drives will be fine if written to a FAT 32 external drive.

So far, I have not figured out how to re-format the external drive  120GB Seagate Barracuda with 8 MB cache and in a Firewire USB case, back to FAT 32 as it ws when I bought it.
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 11:02pm
 
RV_Roadie

I was able to access my USB 2.0 HDD and use DOS's fdisk, or PartitionMagic's DOS version using this DOS USB driver:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=10954...

If you save a NTFS partition to a FAT32 partition, and then restore it, Ghost will restore the partition as NTFS just as saved without any problems.

Or, if your USB HDD is removable, you could temporarily mount it on an open IDE cable on a desktop computer to boot to DOS and do the re-formatting.
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 11:55pm
 
Quote:
"... So far, I have not figured out how to re-format the external drive  120GB Seagate Barracuda with 8 MB cache and in a Firewire USB case, back to FAT 32 as it was when I bought it."

RV_Roadie

I have an 80GB Seagate Barracuda in a FireWire 400/USB 2.0 combo external enclosure kit and a 120GB Seagate Barracuda in a FireWire 800/FireWire 400/USB 2.0 combo kit - and I enjoy great success with both NTFS and FAT32 file system formats.  However, they are both very sensitive about "debris" from failed Norton Ghost 2003 tasks, i.e., the RECYCLER file on NTFS logical drives cannot be cleared using the
DELETE
command - the contents have to be
MOVE
d and shuttling 4GBs will take anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes for a transfer.  In the last year, I probably have performed well over 200 Norton Ghost 2003 operations while tinkering with my four different external HHD enclosure kits - and the surest path to getting squared away is getting a copy of Partition Magic 8.0.

Melding your circumstances with my Seagate 120GB, I would fire up Partition Magic to:

(1)  
Delete and Secure Erase
each and every partition on the HDD - including any extended partition after doing so to the logical drives included therein;

(2)  create a 57.23GB (50%) NTFS primary active partition on the HDD;

(3)  create an extended partion containing a single 57.23GB (50%) FAT32 logical drive which will consume all remaining space on the HDD;

(4)  reformat (right-click for a dropdown menu) the logical drive in FAT32 before leaving Partition Magic 8.0; and

(5)  exit to XP DeskTop and right click My Computer > Manage > Storage > Disk Management > select NTFS drive and right-click for a dropdown menu to reformat the primary drive in NTFS - disregard any hesitation and warnings as the drive is empty.

Partition Magic 8.0 allows free and unfettered operations with the physical HDD mounted in the enclosure.  Having performed this drill dozens of times on four different HDDs, I assure you that you will be well prepared.  However, if Ghost operations do go awry and "foul the decks" before you get your procedures down pat, do not hesitiate to go through the process again - in the long run, you will save time.  If you have Norton Disk Doctor onboard, you can give it a try beforehand - but it consumes a good deal of time as well.  I always set up prolonged tasks to run unattended while I am away from the PCs.

As a matter of habit - and nothing else - I always assign logical drive letters somewhere between T: and Y: on my external physical drives.  FAT32 logical drives always enjoy the highest letter(s) in any given sequence - again, just a matter of habit.

Let us know how you are progressing.

El Pescador
 

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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #6 - Jan 10th, 2005 at 10:58am
 
Night Owl,
  Thanks!  I wondered if the images from an NTFS machine and saved to an external drive in FAT 32 would work.  I have no problems accessing the external drive from either desktop machine now as they are NTFS, and Mt external drive is NTFS.

I have been "lurking" here and reading many of the great answers given, and applied most of them myself.  Of course that has only been a few months as I did not get my OEM copy of SW 2003 with this excellent version of Ghost on it until recently.  My previous version was 2002, and I never got past a few tries.

In fact, I used the windows interface and advanced options to enable the default Ghost USB 2.0 support when making my images and got no errors or problems writing them to the external drive.  However I have yet to do a restore from the external drive images.  I have only restored from my DVD+RW Images.  And they would not work until I restored the computer using the original restore disks from the factory, then loaded Ghost only, and then restored from the windows interface using the DVDs.

The problem now is to get the old laptop to recognize the External drive with firewire connections, and read and write from/to it to be able to do an image while it is fresh and has not been online.

The laptop has a firewire port, and did read and write to the external drive via the firewire interface when it was FAT 32.  It only has a USB 1.1, and that is way too slow for anything beyond a few small file transfers.

 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2005 at 4:53pm
 
El Pescador,
   Hey you must like to fish too!  I wrote n answer this AM and got interrupted and my post went bye bye when I had to check another website.  I thought I had laready sent it.  Now hours later I will try again.

  My whole thrust is to end up with the external drive as a FAT 32 and not NTFS.  Why did you in your steps end up with reformatting in NTFS?????

  i was hoping someone would have a shortcut to a way to "force" Win XP to format the external in FAT 32.  But I will check out Partition Magic and see if it can do what I need if there is no shortcut that can be done with he external drive external.

BTW. you can get rid of the recycler file instantly and keep it from ever coming back..  It is created by Systemworks, which I have been using since the first versions.  Heck, I go back to IBM A/V and Central Point software, and before.  Anyway, to get rid of it on the external drives permanently, just open system works on each computer you use the external drive on, regardless of the drive letter assigned to it by each.  Go to options, Utility options and then Norton protection.  There is  drop down menu to select drives.  Just drop down to the drive letter the external is using on each one and uncheck protection.  Poof!  It is gone.  But you have to do it on each computer it si used on that has Systemworks on it.  You can leave the C drive, or any other partitions you wnt to protected, and they will not affect the settings for the external drive.
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #8 - Jan 10th, 2005 at 6:23pm
 
Quote:
"... i was hoping someone would have a shortcut to a way to "force" Win XP to format the external in FAT 32..."

RV_Roadie

In all the time since late 2003 that I have had XP Home Edition on my Dell Dimension 8100, it has never permitted a HDD partition to be formatted FAT32.  At midday today, I was using Disk Management to reformat the NTFS primary active partition on one of my four external HDDs, and I idly - without any real expectation of getting away with it - attempted to reformat the logical FAT32 drive in the extended partition ... and to my amazement, for the first time ever, the dropdown menu offered FAT32 ... so I went ahead and did it !!!

All four of my HDDs (from 60GB to 120GB) in external enclosure kits share the same structuring: 50% dedicated to a single NTFS primary active partition and 50% dedicated to the single logical FAT32 drive in the extended partition.
 As to the "double-dipping" format of the NTFS primary active partition, it is an extra - and probably unnecessary - safeguard to ensure the "decks are not fouled".  Running dozens of Norton Ghost 2003 iterations per week on four different external HDDs with dissimilar file format partitions while using two PCs with dissimilar USB set-ups results in mild paranoia as I have proven to my own satisfaction that "debris" from failed and/or aborted procedures can derail future tests.

El Pescador
   
 

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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2005 at 4:47pm
 
El Pescador,
  Did you try my suggestion to get rid of the recycler file on external drives?  They have been causing lots of techs trouble when they are on a drive they are trying to recover data from, and are a reson some nay say Norton utilities.

I am good on Norton Utilities, not so great on Ghost 2003 or XP and NTFS formats.  I am getting there however.

I appreciate your schema for setting up your hard drives, although I am a one large partition, no extra users kind of guy.  By the same token, I acknowledge the ever increasing size of FAT32 files on drives over 32GB.  So I am considering using something akin to your drive strategy.

But my problem remains.  I have a Win 98SE year 2000 laptop, with only firewire and USB 1.1, which will not recognize a drive formatted in NTFS on firewire.  I can't see it from it, so can't reformat it in FAT 3 from there, nor can do a FAT 32 format from XP.  I am going to try and find a friend with Partition Magic, and see if that can do it from my main NTFS machine before I buy it.  I always try then buy, or erase.  No bootlegs here.

Anybody got a free solution before I try then buy?
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2005 at 12:07am
 
Quote:
"... More so when I found I could also back up images to my 120GB external Hard drive via USB 2.0 in only 15 mins or so..."

RV_Roadie

Can the HDD inside your external enclosure be dismounted and installed as a temporary master internally on one of your desktops ?  If it were mine, I am convinced I could do some FDISK gyrations with a WIN 98 SE boot disk in the master position followed up with the Recovery Console protocols on the Windows XP CD to render it FAT32 and usable.

Nonetheless, I still would prefer PowerQuest Partition Magic 8.0 (now a Symantec product) - I have grown so found of it that each of my XP desktops is individually licensed on the up and up.  I consider it among the most useful items in my entire software 'toolkit'.  If you ever use it, you will be loath to ever part with it.

El Pescador
 

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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2005 at 6:37pm
 
accck!
OK bud, that was my last shot too.  Mount the HD and do a Win 98 install.  And you have convinced me that PM 8.0 needs to be in my toolbox.

I do other folks computers setting up their security after they have gotten infected with malware, mostly hijackers in the last few months.  I also do the malware removals.  But this just stumped me.  I have gotten used to XP and forgottem most of my Win 98SE stuff.  Once I have an image and resolved the File allocation table situation, I'll just leave 98SE on that one and get a WiFi adapter and put it on my network for downloads etc.  The manufacturer says that XP does not play nice with my hardware, so I think you guys got me where I need to be.  I was just worried about the drivers for the newer computers that 98SE doesn't have a clue about.  If it fails, I'll buy PM.

Thanks again
RV
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2005 at 9:41pm
 
Quote:
"... In all the time since late 2003 that I have had XP Home Edition on my Dell Dimension 8100, it has never permitted a HDD partition to be formatted FAT32.  At midday today, I was using Disk Management to reformat the NTFS primary active partition on one of my four external HDDs, and I idly - without any real expectation of getting away with it - attempted to reformat the logical FAT32 drive in the extended partition ... and to my amazement, for the first time ever, the dropdown menu offered FAT32 ... so I went ahead and did it !!!"

Ibidem

Amazingly, since I posted the above comment, my Dell Dimension 8300 (running XP Professional) has now followed suit.  Go figure !!!


El Pescador


P.S.  Apparently, the "pump has to be primed" - this only happens when one of the FAT32 partitions on my four different HDD enclosures "passes by" that has been initially formatted FAT32 by Partition Magic.
 

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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #13 - Jan 15th, 2005 at 2:58pm
 
Looks Like I'll try it when I mount the drive in one of the two later machines and load Win 98 on it.  Maybe it'll see it too for formatting when it is back in the enclosure.  XP does do some things that seem to be eerily almost like A.I.! Roll Eyes  Maybe it is the latest update set?

Thanks again all, I'll post back when I have it running nd making images for all of them, I hope! Shocked
 
 
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Re: NTFS and FAT 32 and Ghost
Reply #14 - Jan 15th, 2005 at 9:44pm
 
Well I did it, mounted the external drive to one of the computers, and now I can't back uo images from any of them.  The NTFS drives fail 100% of the time on usb 2.0 support, which they did not before.  I have not tried selecting 1.1 or none yet.  The Laptop that worked befor with a FT 32 file on the external drive through IEEE1394 won't even recognize it now, except in USB 1.1, and will not write there either.  Nothing works now.  I'll figure it out or pay to have it done if I can't.  Sheesh!  I shoulda left well enough alone.  Maybe partition magic?  Or maybe that would not help either.  I am calling the manufactirer help line on Monday for Sager, the make of my laptop, and see if they have any advice, but I doubt it.

Not a good day at all. <sigh>
 
 
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