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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #45 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 7:27pm

NightOwl wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 10:17am:

I'd like to give you some testing setups to try and see what the results are to see if we can find a working solution--but you would have to be the tester!

No Problem....just tell me what to do and what to note down.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 10:17am:

I've been doing some searching and reading--and there seems to be a lot of questions about if/how to do this--but I can not tell if any of the suggested answers work without a test system--are you *in*?!

I'm in.... 100% ...lets get started... Cool

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	Re: Norton Ghost Reply #46 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:25pm nemo1 wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 7:27pm: "... I'm in.... 100% ...lets get started... ..." IS THIS A GREAT FORUM OR WHAT *El Pescador*
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	Re: Norton Ghost Reply #47 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 9:08pm *Excellent!!!*
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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #48 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am

nemo1

Quote:

I'm in.... 100% ...lets get started...

Great--so let the *fun* begin....

And, no less...we have a cheering section as well--thanks El Pescador!

***************************************************************************

Okay, so the stated goal is: can we boot a system from an external USB optical drive on a system whose BIOS says it supports booting from an external USB optical drive--and access data on that optical drive after booting?

And, if we accomplish the above--can we access a USB HDD as well on the system--or if not--skip the boot from the USB optical drive and boot from the USB HDD instead--and access that USB HDD as well after booting!

(For the record--anyone following this and trying it on their system(s)--BIOS support for booting from USB device(s) will probably vary from one BIOS maker to another--and, will probably vary from one point in time to another, i.e. different versions of the BIOS--so, I suspect your results may *vary*!)

So, let's define your test system that supports booting from the external USB optical drive--looking at your reply # 43:

Is it a desktop...or, laptop?

If desktop--what make/model motherboard?

If laptop--what make/model laptop?

Who made the BIOS...Award, Phoenix,....?

What is the date and version for the BIOS?

What are the various settings for USB functions supported in the BIOS--you may have to do some exploring? I suspect there is a *boot* section where you can select booting from various *devices*--what are the choices--what specific wording is used--for instance *from USB CD-ROM, USB-HDD, USB-Flash Drive,...etc.*?

Also, is there other settings for BIOS USB support? For instance *Legacy USB Support*, *USB Mouse Support*, *USB Keyboard Support*--What choices are you given for each category--*Enable, Disable*? Can you *Enable/Disable* the USB controller all together so it disappears from the system if disabled?

And, it looks like that system has an internal IDE CD-ROM drive, and you are hooking up the external USB optical drive to it--correct?

And, the external USB optical drive--make/model of that device?

So we know what the capabilities are of future setups--is there a internal floppy drive?

Do you have an external USB floppy drive available?

If you will kindly answer the above questions--that will get us on the same starting page!

Thanks!

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #49 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 9:14pm

Hi NightOwl,

I am not at home now so I don't have all the details. I will update when I reach home.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

Is it a desktop...or, laptop?

Its a desktop.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

If desktop--what make/model motherboard?

Motherboard model is MSI PM8M-V

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

Who made the BIOS...Award, Phoenix,....?

Yes it is Phoenix 4.0 release 6.0

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

What is the date and version for the BIOS?

V3.3, 1984-2003

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

What are the various settings for USB functions supported in the BIOS--you may have to do some exploring? I suspect there is a *boot* section where you can select booting from various *devices*--what are the choices--what specific wording is used--for instance *from USB CD-ROM, USB-HDD, USB-Flash Drive,...etc.*?

Yes you are right, there is a boot section. The wordings are as follows:

1. Floppy
2. LS120
3. Hard Disk
4. CDROM
5. ZIP100
6. USB-FDD
7. USB-ZIP
8. USB-CDROM
9. LAN
10 Disable

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

Also, is there other settings for BIOS USB support? For instance *Legacy USB Support*, *USB Mouse Support*, *USB Keyboard Support*--What choices are you given for each category--*Enable, Disable*? Can you *Enable/Disable* the USB controller all together so it disappears from the system if disabled?

This one I am not very sure how to check but here is my advanced BIOS features:
1. CPU feature
2. Hard Disk boot priority
3. Virus warning
4. CPU L2 cache ECC checking
5. Quick power on self test
6. boot sequence
7. boot up floppy
8. boot up numlock status
9. security option
10. boot to OS/2
11. small logo(EPA) show

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

And, it looks like that system has an internal IDE CD-ROM drive, and you are hooking up the external USB optical drive to it--correct?

I have these drives:
internal 5.25" CD and DVD rom
HP slim DVD-Ram connected to USB2.0 converter.
Pioneer slim DVD-rom connected to another USB2.0 converter (not working anymore)

For previous tests, I used the Hp slim DVD-Ram connected to the USB2.0 converter.

I recently bought a converter(IDE to USB2.0, chip set is) for 5.25". So if you need that for testing, I am good to go too.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

And, the external USB optical drive--make/model of that device?

Internal 5.25"
Pioneer DVD-rom model:
HP CD-RW model:
Sony DVD-Rom model:

slim drive
HP
Pioneer

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

So we know what the capabilities are of future setups--is there a internal floppy drive?

Yes I have an internal floppy drive.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:18am:

Do you have an external USB floppy drive available?

No this one I don't have.

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #50 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 1:33am

nemo1

Quote:

2. Next I try to boot from USB cd-rom. So what I did is I set to boot from usb cd-rom in bios and place the above disk in the usb cd-rom. It booted but I am getting error messages as below:

So, given your last post about your system that boots from USB cd-rom, tell me which USB cd-rom are you using when you are able to boot?

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	Re: Norton Ghost Reply #51 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 2:42am The one able to boot (from previous post) is the HP slim dvd-ram connected using converter. I will try later using 5.25" ide to usb2.0 converter.
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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #52 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 10:01am

nemo1

Quote:

The one able to boot (from previous post) is the HP slim dvd-ram connected using converter. I will try later using 5.25" ide to usb2.0 converter.

I was aware that there were external HDD USB kits--but I had not paid any attention to external USB kits for optical drives--and I'm not sure of the differences between std DVD drives vs DVD RAM drives--so it will be interesting to see the results!

To anyone else with external USB optical drives--it would be of interest to have several other hardware setups to test--especially someone who has a laptop, and uses both USB floppy drive, and purpose built USB optical drive (as opposed to an optical drive in a converter). Please feel free to join in here and share your results!

So...to summarize the results you described in reply reply # 43:

Your boot disc with the Panasonic DOS USB driver, if booted from an internal IDE optical drive, will mount and see external USB HDD's and external DVD-RAM optical drive in a converter USB box.

And, if you boot from the external DVD-RAM optical drive using the BIOS USB boot support, the disc boots fine--but you get loading error messages starting with line 3 of [config.sys].

So, first--we should *clean up* your [config.sys] and [autoexec.bat] to be sure there are no errors because of possible *syntax errors*. Unless you load *emm386.exe*, you can not use any UMB (upper memory blocks) for DOS programs. So any *devicehigh* command, and *LH* (load high) commands will not work. And *DOS=high, umb* will work for *high* because you loaded *himem.sys*, but the *umb* will not work without *emm386.exe* being loaded. I doubt these are causing any issues, but we want to remove any possible confounding variables. So here are the modifications to what you reported in reply reply # 43:

Quote:

[config.sys]

device=HIMEM.SYS
device~~high~~=USBASPI.SYS /v /w
Rem removed /e to support USB1.1
device~~high~~=DI1000DD.SYS
device~~high~~=USBCD.SYS /d:USBCD001
Device=oakcdrom.sys /d:mscd001
DOS=HIGH~~,UMB~~
lastdrive=Z

[autoexec.bat]

Path=a:\;x:\;x:\ghost;x:\pqmagic
Rem corrected path with x:
Mouse.com
Mscdex.exe /d:mscd001 /d:USBCD001 /l:x /m:16 /v
~~LH MSCDEX /d:USBCD001~~

[Files on the Bootable System Floppy Disk]

Autoexec.bat
Command.com
Config.sys
Di1000dd.sys
Himem.sys
Io.sys
Mouse.com
Mouse.ini
Msdos.sys
Mscdex.exe
Usbaspi.sys
USBCD.SYS
oakcdrom.sys

When you test DOS boot files, it is helpful to press F8 just as the system begins to read and load DOS form the floppy disk or optical disc--you can then choose *step-by-step confirmation* of each command line in the [config.sys] and [autoexec.bat] file, and have time to read the resulting output.

Again, I doubt the above makes any difference--but it's worth making sure!

Your results?

************************************************************************

Here's the 2nd test!:

Because you have an internal floppy drive, the simplest way to see if this test is going to work at all is to use a floppy disk to boot from and test if the DOS USB driver is compatible and works on your system. If that test works, then we can move on to booting from a bootable disc and seeing the results.

Doing a Google search on booting from usb cd-rom, I found this reference: Booting from USB Port , and Installing Windows using USB connection.

These gave me *hope* that what we're attempting to do could be done! Addonics is using a different DOS USB driver called *Duse* on their boot disk. Although I don't have an external USB optical drive, I created this boot floppy disk. It should have mounted my external HDD even without the USB optical drive if it was compatible with my system--but, it did not find and mount my USB controllers on two different systems Angry

! Hopefully your experience will be different!

So, download the DOS USB Driver Floppy Boot Disk Creator. Extract the files from the zipped file. Run the *rawrite2.exe* to create the floppy boot disk. Type *dosboot.img* when asked for the file name, and *a* when asked for the destination drive. Put a formatted floppy disk in the drive and create the boot disk.

Test it by booting from it! Results?

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #53 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 10:42am

NightOwl wrote on Nov 29^th, 2007 at 10:01am:

Here's the 2nd test!:

Because you have an internal floppy drive, the simplest way to see if this test is going to work at all is to use a floppy disk to boot from and test if the DOS USB driver is compatible and works on your system. If that test works, then we can move on to booting from a bootable disc and seeing the results.

Doing a Google search on booting from usb cd-rom, I found this reference: Booting from USB Port , and Installing Windows using USB connection.

These gave me *hope* that what we're attempting to do could be done! Addonics is using a different DOS USB driver called *Duse* on their boot disk. Although I don't have an external USB optical drive, I created this boot floppy disk. It should have mounted my external HDD even without the USB optical drive if it was compatible with my system--but, it did not find and mount my USB controllers on two different systems Angry

! Hopefully your experience will be different!

So, download the DOS USB Driver Floppy Boot Disk Creator. Extract the files from the zipped file. Run the *rawrite2.exe* to create the floppy boot disk. Type *dosboot.img* when asked for the file name, and *a* when asked for the destination drive. Put a formatted floppy disk in the drive and create the boot disk.

Test it by booting from it! Results?

I have tested it using 5.25" ide to USB2.0 converter with HP CD-writer for 2nd test. It stop at:

EHCI USB Controller initialized (BASE 0xfdfff000, IRQ 5)

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #54 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 12:15pm

nemo1

Quote:

I have tested it using 5.25" ide to USB2.0 converter with HP CD-writer for 2nd test. It stop at:

EHCI USB Controller initialized (BASE 0xfdfff000, IRQ 5)

And....let the DOS USB problem/troubleshooting issues begin Wink

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The Addonic boot disk uses DUSE v4.3. Here's links to more recent versions of DUSE:

DUSE v4.9

DUSE v4.4

You could try substituting the *duse.exe* in these more recent DUSE versions for the one on the floppy disk to see if they are able to load successfully!

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #55 - Nov 30^th, 2007 at 9:24am

Results:

Duse 4.4

Verifying DMI Pool Data...........
Boot from CD:
1. FD 1.44MB System Type-(06)
Starting Windows 98

DUSE version 4.4 Build 110 Release (General)
DOS USB Stack Driver with USB Storage Extensions
Copyright Cypress Semiconductor, 2000-2002

_

Then it just stops there.

DUSE 4.9

Verifying DMI Pool Data...........
Boot from CD:
1. FD 1.44MB System Type-(06)
Starting Windows 98

DUSE PM version 4.9 Build 220 Release (General)
DOS USB Stack Driver with USB Storage Extensions
Copyright Cypress Semiconductor, 2000-2003

EHCI USB Controller initialized (BASE 0xfdfff000, IRQ 5)
_

Then it stops there.

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	Re: Norton Ghost Reply #56 - Nov 30^th, 2007 at 12:09pm Hi NightOwl, ugpm
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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #57 - Nov 30^th, 2007 at 1:24pm

Hi,

I have got it working. Booting from USB CD/DVD Rom. Tested using:

1. 5.25" IDE to USB2.0 converter.
2. slim DVD-RAM with USB2.0 converter.

Here is how I did it. Below shows the content of my boot floppy, autoexec.bat and config.sys

In AutoExec.bat
@ECHO OFF
Path=a:\;x:\;x:\ghost;x:\pqmagic
mouse.com
mscdex.exe /d:mscd001 /d:USBCD001 /l:x /M:16 /v

In Config.sys
device=himem.sys
device=ramfd.sys
device=USBASPI.SYS /v /w
device=DI1000DD.SYS
device=USBCD.SYS /d:USBCD001
device=oakcdrom.sys /d:mscd001

files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z

Boot floppy content

I think Mouse.exe need not be included. For this boot CD I have included my ghost.exe in a folder and all pqmagic files (in a folder) in the content of the CD so that users are able to access ghost and pqmagic in dos and reading the .gho files from USB CDROM or DVD rom or ram. Next I will try an automatic load ghost and start recovery just like the one in reply #8 by Ian Wilkinson but with the USB's support.

I'll post the contents here as well. Smiley

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #58 - Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm

nemo1

Quote:

I have got it working. Booting from USB CD/DVD Rom.

Excellent--great work!!!

Quote:

In [Config.sys]

device=himem.sys
device=ramfd.sys
device=USBASPI.SYS /v /w
device=DI1000DD.SYS
device=USBCD.SYS /d:USBCD001
device=oakcdrom.sys /d:mscd001

What made you think to try that *ramfd.sys* driver?

What do you think *ramfd.sys* is--*RAM Floppy Disk*?

Can you tell what it did to change the behavior of the other USB drivers?

Was the external USB optical drive given drive letter X:\?

Your system also has an internal optical drive--was that also mounted and given a DOS drive letter--which letter?

If you reverse the order of loading the optical drive drivers in [config.sys]--does that change which DOS drive letter is assigned to which drive:

Quote:

In [Config.sys]

device=himem.sys
device=ramfd.sys
device=USBASPI.SYS /v /w
device=DI1000DD.SYS
device=oakcdrom.sys /d:mscd001
device=USBCD.SYS /d:USBCD001

Quote:

Next I will try an automatic load ghost and start recovery just like the one in reply #8 by Ian Wilkinson but with the USB's support.

I'll post the contents here as well.

Awaiting your further results!!!

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Re: Norton Ghost
Reply #59 - Dec 1^st, 2007 at 11:19am

NightOwl wrote on Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm:

What made you think to try that *ramfd.sys* driver?

What do you think *ramfd.sys* is--*RAM Floppy Disk*?

I found a CD that was able to boot from external USB CDROM. So I studied the content of the boot section and found the difference is only ramfd.sys then I follow the autoexec.bat and config.sys from the CD. Make one with the ramfd.sys and it booted from USB2.0 CD/DVD ROM.... Smiley

NightOwl wrote on Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm:

Can you tell what it did to change the behavior of the other USB drivers?

No I can't

NightOwl wrote on Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm:

Was the external USB optical drive given drive letter X:\?

Yes it did. I connected:

1. An internal IDE CDROM.
2. External 5.25" DVD-ROM with USB2.0 converter
3. Slim DVD-RAM with converter to USB2.0
4. External IDE 2.5" HDD with USB2.0 converter.

All was given a drive letter x:, y: and z: ....could change it from this line(highlighted):

mscdex.exe /d:mscd001 /d:USBCD001 /l:x /M:16 /v

in autoexec.bat as well. USB HDD was given drive letter c:

NightOwl wrote on Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm:

Your system also has an internal optical drive--was that also mounted and given a DOS drive letter--which letter?

Yes. I am not sure which drive letter but it was assigned to one. I will find out and post it here.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 30^th, 2007 at 11:43pm:

If you reverse the order of loading the optical drive drivers in [config.sys]--does that change which DOS drive letter is assigned to which drive:

I have not tried this yet. Will try it out. Wink

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