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Newbie questions (Read 11003 times)
David_Anderson
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Newbie questions
Mar 17th, 2007 at 12:22pm
 
My main PC is a Dell 670 Precision Workstation fitted with SCSI disks. and I am considering the purchase of Norton Ghost 10 or Norton Save & Restore for the primary purpose of facilitating a rapid restoration of my C: disk (containing Win XP Pro and all my apps) to a replacement disk.  I need some guidance before parting with my money.

In the event that I wish to replace my C: disk with a larger disk it would be possible for me to have both disks attached at the same time and I understand that Norton provides a tool to enable copying Windows, etc, from one disk to the other. Does this tool work well? Are there any known limitations?

I understand that Ghost creates an image of the system disk. This suggests to me that everything is stored in a single very large image file. Can this file be split across multiple DVD-R disks? If not, how do you go about reducing the image size?

What are the key differences between Ghost 10 and Save & Restore?

David
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #1 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 3:54pm
 
David_Anderson,

I think you will find either app suitable.

Quote:
What are the key differences between Ghost 10 and Save & Restore?

The latter has Files and Folders backup as well as Image (Recovery Point) backup.

Quote:
Can this file be split across multiple DVD-R disks?

Yes, but most of us prefer storing backup images on a HD. DVDs are very slow to use in the backup or restore situation. I use DVDs occasionally as a secondary backup.

Quote:
I understand that Norton provides a tool to enable copying Windows, etc, from one disk to the other.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11482...

What you will be mainly doing is creating backup images (Recovery Points) of your C: drive and storing these backup images on your second HD, as well as storing some on an external HD and maybe DVDs. Redundancy. If your OS becomes corrupted or if the primary HD fails then you boot to the Ghost CD and restore the backup image. A 5 to 10 minute job in my case.

Both apps allow the creation of Incremental Recovery points. For example, you can create a Baseline Recovery point on Monday and incremental recovery points on the other six days. These points are around 2% of the baseline size so you are able to keep quite a history of recovery points if you want the ability to restore to a specific day.
 
 
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David_Anderson
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #2 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 5:08pm
 
Thanks for the info, Brian. Just to be certain, can you please clarify whether there is any difference between NG10 and NS&R with respect to the inclusion of an older version of Ghost. I understand that some people believe there is an extra level of robustness (perhaps traded for ease of use?) in these older versions.

Any general comments on the reliability of the Ghost process would be much appreciated. Are there scenarios where this software can be totally trusted and others where caution is advised?

Does the size of the disk image simply match the size of the disk, or are things a little more complicated than that? Can I restore or copy my Ghosted system disk into a new partition on a replacement disk or must it use the whole disk?

Are there any useful advantages to buying the boxed product rather than the download version? If I understand it correctly, the boxed version saves me having to burn the Ghost CD myself and provides a printed manual. Burning a CD is no big deal. Is the manual a substantial affair that would be a pain to print at home from a PDF file?

Finally (for now), is Symantec likely to offer a free or discounted upgrade to V12 if it appears just a few weeks after I buy V10 or V11?

David
 
 
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #3 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 5:51pm
 
David_Anderson wrote on Mar 17th, 2007 at 5:08pm:
Finally (for now), is Symantec likely to offer a free or discounted upgrade to V12 if it appears just a few weeks after I buy V10 or V11?

Ghost 12 will be released in 3 weeks. It supports Vista. That's what I'd buy. I've tried the beta and it looks like a cross between Ghost 9 and 10.

Quote:
is any difference between NG10 and NS&R

I still use Ghost 9. I prefer its "feel" but I don't think it's more reliable than the other Ghosts. I've restored hundreds of images using the DOS and Windows Ghosts. Not one failure. It's personal preference as to what people use. I don't like the Files and Folders feature of NSR. Proprietary files are used as the backup. I prefer the same file format as the original file.

In general, Ghost 9 won't restore images made with later versions but later versions will restore images made with earlier versions.  Some people using Ghost 10 and NSR have had issues with seeing external HDs from the Recovery Environment but NightOwl has provided a solution. 

Quote:
Does the size of the disk image simply match the size of the disk, or are things a little more complicated than that?

If you don't store music or video files on your C: drive then the backup image is 50 to 70% of the size of the Used Space in the C: drive. This depends on the level of compression chosen in Ghost.

Quote:
Are there any useful advantages to buying the boxed product rather than the download version?

No. If the download is cheaper, get it. You can read the userguide pdf from your computer. I wouldn't print it.
 
 
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David_Anderson
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #4 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:04pm
 
Brian,
I've just bought a larger and faster disk to replace my current system disk, so it would be a little frustrating to wait 3 weeks before being able to use NG to facilitate the disk swap. I won't be using Vista for at least 2 years. Is there any other good reason to wait for V12?

You didn't quite answer my question about whether NG10 and NS&R include the same older version(s) of NG. You refer to V9, but I thought I read somewhere on this forum that 8.2 was the last of the 'original' Ghost versions that were supposed to offer certain advantages. Please clarify.

David
 
 
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Brian
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #5 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:37pm
 
David_Anderson wrote on Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:04pm:
I've just bought a larger and faster disk to replace my current system disk, so it would be a little frustrating to wait 3 weeks before being able to use NG to facilitate the disk swap. 

You don't need to buy software to clone a HD. CopyWipe is free. A little slow but it works. Do you have a floppy drive? It can be run from a bootable CD as well or from BartPE. Just an alternative if you want to clone your HD TODAY.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/copywipe.php

Quote:
s there any other good reason to wait for V12?

See http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=ghost9_10;action=display;num=117...

Quote:
You didn't quite answer my question about whether NG10 and NS&R include the same older version(s) of NG.

I'm guessing but the Ghost components of these two products look very similar.

Quote:
that 8.2 was the last of the 'original' Ghost versions that were supposed to offer certain advantages.

Ghost 8.2 has DOS and Windows versions. The Windows version is included in the Ghost 10 and NSR CDs. We don't think it's included in the Ghost 12 CD. I rarely use it but others think it's great.

If you don't plan to use Vista for years, I suggest Ghost 10. Have a look at El_Pescador's posts. He finds deals on software that makes the final cost almost zero.
 
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #6 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:40pm
 
Quote:
"... You didn't quite answer my question about whether NG10 and NS&R include the same older version(s) of NG.  You refer to V9, but I thought I read somewhere on this forum that 8.2 was the last of the 'original' Ghost versions that were supposed to offer certain advantages. Please clarify..."

In the USA, retail boxed copies of Norton Ghost 10.0 (a "hot-imaging" derivative of PowerQuest Drive
Image 7.n) contain a lagniappe installation CD of Norton Ghost 2003 (the latest consumer version
of the "cold-imaging" DOS-dependent legacy Ghost) which is prized by reactionary throwbacks like myself.  What may be confusing is that a very useful alternative to using Norton Ghost 2003 for creating a "disk-to-image" Norton Ghost Backup image is employing Norton Ghost Ver 8.2 running in a Windows XP Preinstalled Environment.

To do so, boot with an installation CD for either: (1) Norton Ghost 10.0; (2) Norton Save & Restore; or the Symantec Recovery Disk included with the Norton SystemWorks 2006 Premier suite.  Then, immediately engage the legacy Backup/Restore "cold-imaging" procedures by following the path
'Recover > Recover Data on My Computer > Recover using a legacy Ghost image'
.  Doing so will yield the side benefit of bypassing both USB mass-storage device and - most, if not all - SATA HDD glitches frequently encountered with DOS-dependent Norton Ghost 2003.  In essence, this procedure uses
restoreghost.exe
(an alternate name for
ghost32.exe
) to allow both immediate creation of Ghost Backup images or the converse Recovery of such images that are in fact totally compatible and interchangeable with those *.gho/*.ghs files created with the
ghost.exe
of Norton Ghost 2003 -
but not with those files created with Norton Ghost 9, Norton Ghost 10.0, or Norton Save & Restore during "hot-imaging".


CLICK HERE for the current bargain price on the Symantec utility suite software shown below, and then CLICK HERE to download the $50.00 rebate form.  I would be very surprised if the essential elements of Norton Ghost Ver 8.2 were not onboard, and somewhat surprised if Norton Ghost 2003 were not there embedded in a *.msi file.

...

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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #7 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 10:35pm
 
El_Pescador wrote on Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:40pm:
"... I would be very surprised if the essential elements of Norton Ghost Ver 8.2 were not onboard, and somewhat surprised if Norton Ghost 2003 were not there embedded in a *.msi file..."

In the event anyone is considering extracting legacy Ghost application files from archived sectors of Norton SystemWorks Premier Edition - regardless of vintage - then CLICK HERE.

EP
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Brian
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #8 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 12:37am
 
David, I omitted to mention the topic of drivers on the Ghost CD. The most recent Ghosts will have the most up to date SATA/RAID, SCSI and Network drivers. For example, the stock Ghost 9 CD doesn't see my SATA HDs. I've modified the CD.

On this basis I'd recommend Ghost 12. I know, I've recommended just about every version since this thread began. Actually I prefer Ghost 12 to Ghost 10 or NSR. The GUI is more like Ghost 9.
 
 
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #9 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 12:55am
 
El_Pescador

In reading the description of *NORTON SYSTEMWORKS PREMIER 2007*--I suspect it will not come with Ghost 2003 as a separate *extra* like found in Ghost 10's retail version.

Ghost 10 continued to have a separate Ghost 2003 installation CD because Symantec was still supporting Win98, and WinME, and WinNT when Ghost 10 was first released.  Since then, Symantec is no longer supporting those OS's with their current release of Norton Save and Restore (the current version of *Ghost*), and I do not believe you get Ghost 2003 included with Norton Save and Restore!



David_Anderson

If you choose to download Ghost 10--you will get the full version--I believe you get an *.iso* file to burn to CD which will act as your installation CD, and as the emergency Recovery Disk if you need to boot to the Recovery Environment--but unlike the retail version, you will not get the extra Ghost 2003 installation CD--just Ghost 10.
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #10 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 10:23am
 
NightOwl wrote on Mar 18th, 2007 at 12:55am:
"... In reading the description of *NORTON SYSTEMWORKS PREMIER 2007*--I suspect it will not come with Ghost 2003 as a separate *extra* like found in Ghost 10's retail version..."

I quite agree, but I would nonetheless be a bit surprised if elements of Norton Ghost 2003 were not deeply embedded in a Data.cab file alongside a *.msi file on the NSWP installation CD itself - but not on the Symantec Recovery Disk included with the Norton SystemWorks Premier suite.  At any rate, here is the very latest Symantec bargain that I could come up with.

...

CLICK HERE for all the details.

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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #11 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 1:43pm
 
Brian wrote on Mar 17th, 2007 at 6:37pm:
You don't need to buy software to clone a HD. CopyWipe is free. A little slow but it works. Do you have a floppy drive? It can be run from a bootable CD as well or from BartPE. Just an alternative if you want to clone your HD TODAY.


Thanks to everyone for all the useful advice. If CopyWipe for Windows can cope with my immediate requirement to replace my system disk, then I can wait for NG12.

However, I need some guidance on CopyWipe options. So far, I haven't been able to track down a CopyWipe forum so I'm hoping that someone here has practical experience with this tool. The three copy options are Scale Size, Straight Copy and Raw Sector Copy. I will be copying from a 36GB disk to a 146GB disk but, ideally, I want to copy everything into a 50GB partition on the target disk. Is this possible? If so, how?

David
 
 
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #12 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 2:40pm
 
David, CopyWipe can't do that I'm afraid. But we can do that with other software.

Do you have Partition Magic? That will do it easily. If not, we'll use BootIt NG. There is a 4 week trial usage. Let me know which way we need to go.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

PS CopyWipe either resizes the clone to fill the new HD or copies at the original size. You can't manually choose a custom final size.
 
 
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #13 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 3:49pm
 
I've just unearthed a copy of Partition Magic V8.0 but I've still to remind myself what it does...
 
 
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Re: Newbie questions
Reply #14 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 4:01pm
 
David, PM is really the easiest way to clone partitions. Easier than Ghost. Give me an hour and I'll post instructions.

You will need the PM boot CD or floppies. It's not done from Windows.
 
 
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