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Radified vs ghost boot cd (Read 8716 times)
newz54
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Radified vs ghost boot cd
Sep 1st, 2007 at 2:37pm
 
I carefully followed the instructions to build a radified ghost 2003 boot cd.   It works but as many people have discovered when you try to save an image to an external usb device it takes forever.   21 hours for 60gigs.  I assume it was only using usb 1.
I hopes of solving that issue I temporarily installed a floppy drive and started ghosts boot wizard.  I made sure to select usb 2 support.  When it was done I have a bootable floppy...not exactly what I wanted.    I then used roxio easy cd creator to make a bootable cd from a floppy.   So it made the image from the floppy that ghost created.

The good part is that instead of taking 21 hours it only took 1.5 hours to ghost the drive this time.  But....I had all sorts of aspi errors on booting the disk...it said no drives recognized and I had to select abort.....yet it dumped me into dos ghost and it appeared to work...except no mouse support.  Any suggestions how I can get the best of both disks?  I tried copying some of the usb lines from the ghost created config.sys to the radified one but I ended up with a non bootable disk.
 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #1 - Sep 2nd, 2007 at 12:50am
 
newz54

Quote:
I had all sorts of aspi errors on booting the disk...it said no drives recognized and I had to select abort.....

That's *normal*--when you use Ghost's optical drive support, it loads 4 or 5 different drivers that search to see if you have a drive that matches their signature--if yes, then they load support for that type drive--if no, then the driver aborts and gives the error message--on my system, I do not have to *abort*, the boot process just notes an error in not finding a compatible device and moves on on its own.

Quote:
I carefully followed the instructions to build a radified ghost 2003 boot cd.

Not entirely sure what *boot cd* you are referring to.

Here's my guide to a boot CD, but it does not have USB support--I have yet to complete the additional sections of the guide for that:

Creating Bootable CD/DVD's Without A:\Floppy Drive

But, here's that additional steps that have been discussed in the forums here on how to add USB support to the custom bootable CD:

Adding USB to Ghost Boot CD

When you use this line to load the USB driver:

Quote:
Device=usbaspi.sys /e /v

the */e* switch is forcing *enhanced* usb only, which is USB 2.0--and support for USB 1.x will not be loaded at all.
 

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newz54
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #2 - Sep 2nd, 2007 at 1:53am
 
Sorry I thought your nightowl ghost cd was called a ratified cd.  In any case your instructions are excellent.  I hope you do complete the other projects.   Adding usb support to the disk seems pretty simple.....just add a few lines in the config.sys.   Awesome.

 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2007 at 8:53am
 
newz54

Quote:
I thought your nightowl ghost cd was called a ratified cd

Hmm...*NightOwl's Radified Boot CD*--that rolls off the tongue nicely  Wink !--actually, in Rad's original Ghost Guide--there are references to several boot CD options--as there are in the forum here has well--more than one person has made a *customized boot cd* for Ghost purposes--so it can be confusing what's being referred to.

Quote:
Adding usb support to the disk seems pretty simple.....just add a few lines in the config.sys.

Well, actually a couple more steps than that!  You also add the needed files to the boot file list, which makes the bootable boot sector of a CD larger than the 1.44 MB of the *standard* bootable CD sector--so you need to move the *ghost.exe* to the data portion of the CD rather than keeping it in the boot sector--that brings the boot file size below the 1.44 MB number, and should work fine!
 

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newz54
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2007 at 5:16pm
 
Well I followed your directions and I can see my external usb drive (ntfs) but I am stuck in usb 1 speed.....just like the first disk I made using your step by step instructions.

Here is my config.sys

Device=usbaspi.sys /e /v 
Device=di1000dd.sys
device=oakcdrom.sys /d:nightowl
lastdrive=z 

Here is my autoexec.bat

path=a:\;x:\
mouse.com
mscdex.exe /d:nightowl /l:x /m:16 /v
ghost.exe

I made sure I injected the two usb files
usbaspi.sys /e /v 
di1000dd.sys

I did select the 2.6 meg floppy option.

Any idea why I am stuck in usb 1?   What about using the panasonic drivers mentioned in the usb support thread?

 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2007 at 10:55pm
 
newz54

Quote:
Any idea why I am stuck in usb 1?   What about using the panasonic drivers mentioned in the usb support thread?

If you are using the *usbaspi.sys* program--that is the *Panasonic USB DOS driver*!

And, if you are using the */e* switch--then it can only operate at USB 2.0--it would not *fall back* to USB 1.x speeds if it could not run at 2.0!

When you boot to DOS and the system is just beginning to load the DOS OS, if you press F8, you can select to use a *step-by-step* boot process where you have to say *yes* to load each line one by one.  This slows things down so you can see the messages after each DOS program is loaded.  

When you boot, does the *usbaspi.sys* find your USB controller?

And does *di1000dd.sys* assign a drive letter to the USB HDD?

So, I'm wondering if your system's BIOS has built-in USB HDD support!?  And if so, it must be USB 1.x and is taking priority over the Panasonic DOS driver.  Do you know--does your system allow you to boot from USB HDD's and/or flash drives?  Does the BIOS support access to the USB HDD with built-in support?

Also, are you using Ghost 2003?

Quote:
I hopes of solving that issue I temporarily installed a floppy drive and started ghosts boot wizard.  I made sure to select usb 2 support.  When it was done I have a bootable floppy...not exactly what I wanted.    I then used roxio easy cd creator to make a bootable cd from a floppy.   So it made the image from the floppy that ghost created.

The good part is that instead of taking 21 hours it only took 1.5 hours to ghost the drive this time.  But....I had all sorts of aspi errors on booting the disk...

If you are able to use Ghost's USB DOS drivers and get adequate performance, then maybe you should just modify the boot CD to load those drivers.  So instead of loading *usbaspi.sys* and *di1000dd.sys* in config.sys--you would load the Ghost file *aspiehci.sys* in config.sys using this command line:

DEVICE = aspiehci.sys /int /all

and load the Ghost file *guest.exe* in autoexec.bat using this command line:

GUEST.EXE

And, of course you would need to add those Ghost files to the boot files that you would then be burning to the CD.



Also, the Panasonic USB DOS driver comes in three different versions--usually the most recent gives the broadest coverage for compatibility:

v2.06, size=37,903, dated 11/26/2002

v2.15, size=39,093, dated 10/26/2003

v2.20, size=39,179, dated 11/07/2004

After clicking on the downloaded *.exe* file which extracts the enclosed files, you will find the *Usbaspi.sys* file in the *F2h* subdirectory.

Trouble shooting USB in DOS can have a number of variables you have to work through!

 

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newz54
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #6 - Sep 3rd, 2007 at 12:12am
 
NightOwl thanks for taking the time to figure this out.   I appreciate it.

I tried booting cd on my laptop and it loads with no error messages.   All of the devices load properly.   A quick test in ghost confirmed usb 2 speeds.    Odd that it worked as this is an hp notebook that won't boot from my bootable usb key.   The key appears in the bios under the hdd section.  It also has my laptop hard drive listed.   The notebook hdd appears first on the list and there is no way to change the order so I disabled the drive.....rebooted and it attempted to boot from the key but kicked out an error message that I couldn't read. 

On my desktop which was the original computer I was trying to get working with the ghost boot cd.....the bios looks similar but allows me to change the order of the usb key and the internal hard drive.  This computer boots from t he usb key.   I then plugged in my hsb hard drive and moved it to the top of the hdd list in the bios boot priority screen.  I fugured that would force loading the usb controller....   When I did a f8 step by step confirmation upon booting the ghost boot cd it rejects usbaspi.sys.....says  error: ehci memory mapped io can not be assigned.    Also   error: pci uhci/ohci/ehci host controller not found.    When it ries to load device Di1000dd.sys   it says aspi manager not installed.    
This time in testing the ghost boot cd I get a minor improvement in usb speed from 60meg per minute to 95 megs.    The only difference between the two is that in second one I gave the usb drive first boot priority after the cd rom drive.

The fact that the disk works for the notebook is great.  I had hopes of using this disk in several computers so I would still like to resolve this issue.   I assume the desktop usb controller doesn't like these usb drivers. 

Thoughts?   Should I give up and try your suggestion of using the image from the ghost boot wizard with your suggested modifications. 

Finally one last question.   I notice my ghost image were broken into 2 gig files.  Why?  The 60gig image was going on the usb drive that is formated in ntfs.   Isn't 2 gigs an indication of fat16?
    
 
 
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nbree
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #7 - Sep 3rd, 2007 at 5:27am
 
newz54 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2007 at 12:12am:
I notice my ghost image were broken into 2 gig files.  Why?

We choose to keep breaking them into 2Gb chunks at the time just because it seemed more consistent, it wouldn't cause problems for people copying images onto optical media, and because it would take a lot of effort to ensure that every single tool that touched image files supported >2Gb, which is a lot less trivial than it sounds - the first version we did try and make >2Gb if storing on NTFS the default, it turned out that the VS2005 implementation of the C++ iostreams library failed to actually support 64-bit file offsets despite taking 64-bit offset parameters....
 
 
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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #8 - Sep 3rd, 2007 at 8:52am
 
newz54

quote by nbree

Quote:
the first version we did try and make >2Gb if storing on NTFS the default, it turned out that the VS2005 implementation of the C++ iostreams library failed to actually support 64-bit file offsets despite taking 64-bit offset parameters....

nbree is our frequent contributor who happens to be part of the software engineering team that develops the DOS version of Classical Ghost--he offers interesting insight into the design and creation of the Ghost software.

2 GB has been the classic DOS file size limitation that Ghost was originally designed to adhere to.  Recent DOS Ghost from the corporate versions (Ghost Solution Suite--i.e. GSS), does have the ability to be larger than 2 GB.

Quote:
Odd that it worked as this is an hp notebook that won't boot from my bootable usb key.   The key appears in the bios under the hdd section.

And:

Quote:
On my desktop which was the original computer I was trying to get working with the ghost boot cd.....the bios looks similar but allows me to change the order of the usb key and the internal hard drive.  This computer boots from t he usb key.

Well, that confirms my *guess*, your BIOS has built-in USB support.  This can lead to software/hardware conflicts if you then try to load an additional DOS USB HDD driver because now you have two different software programs competing for the same hardware--be it system RAM to load and run the driver, or the USB HDD's circuitry itself!

Quote:
I then plugged in my hsb hard drive and moved it to the top of the hdd list in the bios boot priority screen.  I fugured that would force loading the usb controller....  

Changing the boot order in the BIOS probably will not help with DOS driver software/hardware conflicts.

Quote:
The fact that the disk works for the notebook is great.  I had hopes of using this disk in several computers so I would still like to resolve this issue.   I assume the desktop usb controller doesn't like these usb drivers.  

Thoughts?

Probably not so much that the USB controller doesn't like the USB DOS drivers, but the conflict of having two drivers loaded at the same time.

There have been a few other posters to this form with similar issues--you might be able to disable the BIOS built-in USB support for the time while you are using Ghost in DOS--and then re-enabling it when done--but it has been reported by some that the BIOS disables the whole USB controller, not just the DOS software support.  So, then you can not access the USB controller through the DOS USB HDD drivers that you are loading with the Ghost boot CD.  You will have to look around in the BIOS to see what options are available to you.
 

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Re: Radified vs ghost boot cd
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2007 at 10:06am
 
I see lots of info on beating Ghost 2003 to make it do things it was never originally designed to do, adding drivers, etc.

In all the years, since 1997, that I've been using Ghost in one version or another, the only drivers I've ever added to my Ghost boot disk was a generic CD driver and Mouse.com. 
(Actually, when I formatted my ghost boot floppy with Windows ME, it put the CD driver on there for me.)

I personally have moved up to Ghost 8.3, 2005, Build 1331.
I don't know everything it can do because my needs are pretty simple.
For instance I've never had a need to Ghost over a network.  Huh

I have a mobo that reports every drive, even FD's, plugged into it, to Ghost.
So Ghost sees everything the mobo sees.

Ghost 8.3 also works just great with my USB/Wireless mouse and even backs up to my 6gig Flash Drive (with HIGH compression). It's default file size it just over 4 gigs.  They store just fine on a single DVD and my FAT-32 hard drives. 

Just a suggestion:  that folks having troubles with the old Ghost 2003, move up to Ghost 8.3, whenever possible.

I found out about it from someones post right here in this REALLY GREAT forum.
God, I love this place!

In retrospect, I wonder just how many complaints logged here, could be done away with entirely by an upgrade to Ghost 8.3?  Just curious!

Cheers Mates!
Shadow  Cool

 
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