Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Ghost 2003 and external disk (Read 16410 times)
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Ghost 2003 and external disk
Nov 7th, 2007 at 10:13am
 
Hello forum! First time poster here searching for help.

Used the search function and read several threads but my problems are not solved.

I'm trying to build a Ghost boot floppy to save partition images to an external USB/Firewire hard disk (Lacie BigDisk Extreme+, 1 NTFS partition, 1 TB) but I'm not able to access this disk neither via USB nor firewire. My system (Asus P5B/Intel P965/Intel Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM) has two other SATA hard disks (each with some NTFS/Linux/FAT32 partitions) and one SATA DVD-RW. Ghost is 2003 build 793.

1) Using the built-in BIOS USB support (no USB DOS drivers in config.sys), the external hard disk is recognized and listed by Ghost. When I select this drive to check/retrieve an image, Ghost opens the drive window but fails to report the directories/files already on the disk. If I try to force a partition>to image operation in that disk, I get an Error 622. Strangely I can perform a check on this disk (local>check>disk). From the ghosterror report it seems that Ghost is recognizing the Lacie (sector/head/capacity/file system, etc..., it has 2 disk, if this helps). What makes me crazy is that Ghost can check the disk but not the images already on the disk (copied from internal disks). I can perform any operation on all other drives (included the SATA DVD without loading gcdrom.sys!).

Here is my config.sys:
files=20
lastdrive=z

and autoexec.bat
@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
path=a:\
ghost

files on disk:
config.sys
autoexec.bat
command.com
msdos.sys
io.sys
ghost.exe

and here the drives reported by Ghost
1:1 NTFS drive
1:3 NTFS drive
2:2 NTFS drive
2:3 NTFS drive
2:4 NTFS drive
3:1 [Lacie] NTFS drive
@CD-R1 LITE ON DVDRW SHM-165S6S
A: local drive
C: local drive

(I omitted the names of the partitions of the internal sata disks; "C:" is a fat32 partition on the 2nd disk). Note that "USB Functions" and "USB legacy" are enabled in BIOS. If disabled, Ghost does not see the external disk at all.
The BIOS has many USB options ("Legacy USB, Port 64/66 emulation, USB 2.0 controller mode, BIOS EHCI Hand-off") and USB device emulations (FDD, Forced floppy, HD, CDROM). I have tried almost all combinations without success. I've also tried the following Ghost flags: -wd-, -ws-, -fni, -ffx.

Note also that the same boot disk does work flawlessy when the Lacie is linked by USB to my laptop (Thinkpad T61) with the BIOS USB support enabled: I can save and retrieve images from it without loading any USB DOS driver. This makes me suppose that the problem comes from the Asus P5B BIOS, not the Lacie. However the BIOS correctly reports the Lacie at start-up.

2) Using the Panasonic USBASPI manager (ver. 2.20) does not work either.
Here is the modified config.sys:
device=usbaspi.sys /e /v
device=di1000dd.sys
files=20
lastdrive=z

With this configuration, the behaviour varies with BIOS settings. If "USB functions" is disabled in BIOS I get an "Error: PCI UHCI/... USB host controller not found" and Ghost does not see the external drive; if "USB functions" and "USB legacy" are both enabled, the aspi manager does find two controllers but freezes initializing them and a hard reset is required. If "USB functions" is enabled but "USB legacy" disabled, the aspi manager does install itself and find the Lacie but the di1000dd driver causes a "division overflow error" and the system freezes.

Similar results with the aspiehci.sys USB driver that comes with Ghost: if "USB functions" and "USB legacy" are both enabled, the aspi manager freezes and hard reset is required. If "USB functions" is enabled but "USB legacy" disabled, the aspi manager does install itself and find the Lacie, then the blue Ghost screen appears but before the "About Norton" window (probably when Ghost is checking all drives), the program does stop and some lines of the screen become garbled with colours as if the video driver was corrupted. Probably there are dos messages and prompt, but these are unreadable. Adding guest.exe does nothing, no drive letter is assigned, probably because the disk is NTFS.

3) Using the Iomega Firewire driver provided by Ghost does not work (device=aspi1394.sys /int /all). I get a "no devices found" error. The Lacie is connected to a Firewire 800 PCI adapter (backward compatible).

I would prefer if Ghost could work without usb/firewire dos drivers (hey, the BIOS is pretty advanced and with all its options it should take care of a simple USB external disk; indeed Ghost does work with USB flash drives), however if this is not to be I would go the dos drivers route, but what I'm doing wrong in 2) and 3) above? And if I get the dos firewire/usb drivers working, is the NTFS-formatted Lacie a problem?
Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post.
 
 
IP Logged
 

NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5801
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #1 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 11:03am
 
bbct

Quote:
The BIOS has many USB options ("Legacy USB, Port 64/66 emulation, USB 2.0 controller mode, BIOS EHCI Hand-off") and USB device emulations (FDD, Forced floppy, HD, CDROM).

Your difficulties most likely reside somewhere in these options, as you have already speculated--and it may turn out that no combination of settings will create a *compatible* environment--and it may be the external HDD/system USB controller compatibility--or BIOS/software compatibility--so there are multiple permutations!

Quote:
Note also that the same boot disk does work flawlessy when the Lacie is linked by USB to my laptop (Thinkpad T61) with the BIOS USB support enabled:

Interesting!

I'm not a laptop owner, but a friend just bought a ThinkPad T61, and I had a chance to work with it for a couple hours:

Fresh out of the box, default BIOS settings for USB was *BIOS support for USB* enabled and *Power always on* disabled (this setting apparently keeps the USB power to various peripherals hot even when the system is powered down--some devices are rechargeable and this allows them to recharge even if the laptop is off--apparently only works if plugged into the AC outlet--not battery powered!).

Anyway, Ghost would not see the external USB HDD in this setup.  Loading the Panasonic USB DOS drivers would freeze the system when trying to scan for USB controllers!  If I set the *BIOS support for USB* to disabled, I could then load the Panasonic USB DOS drivers and Ghost would work fine.

Your statement above suggests the opposite experience--I'm not sure why we are reporting two completely different results!

The setting on the ThinkPad for *BIOS support for USB* loads DOS drivers in memory, and was so that booting from a USB device (external floppy drive, external CD-ROM drive, Flash drive, or external HDD) was available as an option--but apparently it did not make a USB HDD available for use in DOS by Ghost--but disabling it and then loading the DOS USB drivers did allow the drivers to load successfully and allowed Ghost access (my USB HDD was only 160 GB--Seagate).  So, disabling that setting did not disable the USB controller, it just disable support for booting from a USB device--and the Panasonic USB drivers could still see and use the USB controller.

So, from the above, where I'm trying to get is that you need a setup where the USB controllers are still available, but the BIOS is not actively injecting its own BIOS support for USB--then boot to DOS and load the Panasonic USB DOS drivers:

I would enable *USB 2.0 controller mode*, disable *Legacy USB* and *USB device emulations*--my thought being this should keep the controller active, but no DOS support is being added by the BIOS (I'm not sure as to what *Port64/66 emulation* is for!?).

Have you tried that combination--results?
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 3:08am
 
NightOwl,

thank you for the reply and sorry for the delay, I can post only at office.

Quote:
Your difficulties most likely reside somewhere in these options, as you have already speculated--and it may turn out that no combination of settings will create a *compatible* environment--and it may be the external HDD/system USB controller compatibility--or BIOS/software compatibility--so there are multiple permutations!

using the built-in usb bios support (1, in my previous post) if I quit Ghost after unsuccesfully trying to read the external disk directory, I get a "memory allocation
error. Impossible to load Command, system blocked". However, what surpises me is that the bios can support the operations involved in Ghost checking the disk (and during this operation I can see that Ghost lists the files present there), but not those for reading and writing on it  Angry! And why a simple usb flash drive (admittedly, FAT formatted) does work?

As for the Thinkpad
Quote:
Your statement above suggests the opposite experience--I'm not sure why we are reporting two completely different results!

I don't know either! I checked again this morning and can confirm that it does works Huh. My Thinkpad is this one, bios version is 1.22 (08/27/2007), embedded controller version 1.06. I have both "bios support" and "always on USB" enabled. The external disk must of course be turned on before the laptop in order to be recognized.

Quote:
So, from the above, where I'm trying to get is that you need a setup where the USB controllers are still available, but the BIOS is not actively injecting its own BIOS support for USB--then boot to DOS and load the Panasonic USB DOS drivers:

I would enable *USB 2.0 controller mode*, disable *Legacy USB* and *USB device emulations*--my thought being this should keep the controller active, but no DOS support is being added by the BIOS (I'm not sure as to what *Port64/66 emulation* is for!?).

Have you tried that combination--results?

Yes and invariably get the "overflow error" loading the D1000 aspi driver (any ideas about this error?). I'll try to play with the aspi manager flags, just to see if anything changes. Note that if "usb functions" is enabled but "legacy support" is disabled in bios, all other options (included usb emulation) are unavailable and the bios does not reports the disk at start-up.

Please could you confirm that, should the dos drivers work, the NTFS format of the disk is not a problem? Otherwise, my efforts are useless!

Thanks a lot for your effort!
 
 
IP Logged
 
NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5801
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:35am
 
bbct

Quote:
Note that if "usb functions" is enabled but "legacy support" is disabled in bios, all other options (included usb emulation) are unavailable and the bios does not reports the disk at start-up.

That sounds like what you should need--don't want the BIOS reporting anything USB!

Quote:
2) Using the Panasonic USBASPI manager (ver. 2.20) does not work either.

Here is the modified config.sys:

device=usbaspi.sys /e /v
device=di1000dd.sys
files=20
lastdrive=z

I doubt it will make a difference, but I used Panasonic v2.15 on the ThinkPad:

v2.06, size=37,903, dated 11/26/2002

v2.15, size=39,093, dated 10/26/2003

v2.20, size=39,179, dated 11/07/2004

After clicking on the downloaded *.exe* file which extracts the enclosed files, you will find the *Usbaspi.sys* file in the *F2h* subdirectory.



Quote:
Yes and invariably get the "overflow error" loading the D1000 aspi driver (any ideas about this error?).
 
Shot in the dark--you might try loading *himem.sys* in [config.sys]--some systems do not manage memory correctly without a memory manager loaded.



Quote:
Please could you confirm that, should the dos drivers work, the NTFS format of the disk is not a problem?  Otherwise, my efforts are useless!

I have never run into a problem with NTFS and USB external HDD as long as the USB drive gets mounted correctly--admittedly, the USB external drive I used with the ThinkPad laptop was FAT32--but doubt my other USB HDD with NTFS partitions would have had any problems!  But, you never know!!!  For testing purposes, you could try adding a small test partition to the USB HDD (can be done without loosing other partition data if you use PartitionMagic!) so DOS does see at least one partition on the HDD!

Why would FAT32 on the external HDD be a *deal breaker* for you?

Quote:
indeed Ghost does work with USB flash drives

So, you are able to put a small Ghost image on a flash drive, do an image integrity check, and restore that image--all on the system where the external USB HDD will not work?!  That would tend to point the finger at the external HDD compatibility!!!  It's not uncommon for folks to have a particular external HDD brand not work--and another does!  Also, the capacity of the HDD is large--may be an issue--don't know!

Quote:
My Thinkpad is this one, bios version is 1.22 (08/27/2007), embedded controller version 1.06. I have both "bios support" and "always on USB" enabled.

The ThinkPad T61 that I worked with is not mine--so I don't have it here to confirm any information--but I do remember that the BIOS date was Aug., 2007.
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #4 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 11:03am
 
Quote:
That sounds like what you should need--don't want the BIOS reporting anything USB!
Ok!

Quote:
I doubt it will make a difference, but I used Panasonic v2.15 on the ThinkPad:
Unfortunately it didn't, at least in my system  Cry

Quote:
Shot in the dark--you might try loading *himem.sys* in [config.sys]--some systems do not manage memory correctly without a memory manager loaded.
I tried this, both with and without dos in high memory, same overflow error. Hey, it was fun to go through the good old ms-dos manual after my last 80386!

Quote:
I have never run into a problem with NTFS and USB external HDD as long as the USB drive gets mounted correctly--admittedly, the USB external drive I used with the ThinkPad laptop was FAT32--but doubt my other USB HDD with NTFS partitions would have had any problems!  But, you never know!!!  For testing purposes, you could try adding a small test partition to the USB HDD (can be done without loosing other partition data if you use PartitionMagic!) so DOS does see at least one partition on the HDD!
This will be my next, and probably last try, tomorrow.

Quote:
Why would FAT32 on the external HDD be a *deal breaker* for you?
I don't have anything against FAT32, but I should have known that was important before formatting one tera of bytes  Grin

Quote:
So, you are able to put a small Ghost image on a flash drive, do an image integrity check, and restore that image--all on the system where the external USB HDD will not work?!
Well, I didn't really save images on it, but Ghost was able to read directory and files, that's impossible with the Lacie. I'll also try this tomorrow.

Quote:
 That would tend to point the finger at the external HDD compatibility!!!  It's not uncommon for folks to have a particular external HDD brand not work--and another does!
Undecided

I'll keep trying also to get the firewire working, at least in this case the bios should be out of the equation, maybe!
Thanks again for the input!
 
 
IP Logged
 
ben_mott
Nuclear Grade
****
Offline



Posts: 278


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 2:40pm
 
Hello again,
your USB drive has to be formated as FAt32 .
try this floppy choose USB1.1 from menu
http://www.postbox.wanadoo.co.uk/bootdrivers.exe
you need to down load it to your desk top
then have a empty formated floppy disk handy,
and then double click on the icon to make a bootable floppy.
boot with that floppy
choose USB1.1 from menu
it loads all the drivers under the sun and if you do not have that hardware it complains by beeping.
(so do not panic)any way at the end it installs say usb1.1 drivers and your cd/rewriter as Q: and R:
your USB drive will be C: if your operating system is XPorWin2000 (ie NTFS)
your USB drive has to be formated as FAt32 .
 
 
IP Logged
 

NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5801
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:55pm
 
bbct

Maybe we have been looking at the wrong problem!!!

Quote:
My system (Asus P5B/Intel P965/Intel Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM) has two other SATA hard disks (each with some NTFS/Linux/FAT32 partitions) and one SATA DVD-RW.

Maybe compatible access is being hindered by the SATA controller and not the USB controller!

See this thread in our other forum:  BartPE does not see internal SATA (AHCI)

Even though you tried the *-fni* switch--that may not have worked on your system.  Maybe you have to change your BIOS SATA setting from *AHCI* to one of the following various names--*compatibility mode*, *native mode*, *SATA Mode*, *combination mode*--basically something other than *AHCI* mode!

You've mentioned that you can access and verify an image on the USB HDD, but get errors when you try other procedures--maybe it's this setting preventing successful communications rather than the USB drivers!

Let us know if this helps!
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2007 at 8:43am
 
I think I've found the problem, but first let me thank:

ben_mott
I dloaded your boot disk, but it didn't worked. Indeed the drivers included are mostly those provided by Ghost, which I already tried (BTW if someone more naive than me is reading, remember: sometimes the same driver must be loaded more than once for being installed; for example for me this happens with aspiehci.sys on the P5b, and with oakcdrom.sys on the Thinkpad).

NightOwl
The SATA/IDE issue was a clever idea. My bios has "SATA configuration" with the following options: enhanced (default), compatible (said to be used with W98/WinME), disabled. "SATA emulation" was already on IDE, not AHCI. Therefore I tried "disable" but the internal HDs were (of course) undetected by Ghost. Then I selected "compatible", the name sounded promising and the disk flashed as being accessed when Ghost started (with complete usb bios support enabled), but... the result was as before: I can do a local>check>disk operation (note: not an image integrity check, I probably was not clear in my previous posts, sorry, English is not my language) but nothing more. If I try to check/retrieve an image present on the disk, Ghost shows an empty "look in" window, if I try to save an image on it, Ghost returns an error 622 (cannot create image).

Then tried again the Panasonic/Ghost usb drivers, this time with "SATA configuration" on "compatible", (and usb legacy support disabled), but the result were those already posted. Freezes or overflow error.

Then I borrowed a different usb disk (TEAC 120Gb) from a colleague and... Voilą, Ghost worked perfectly with default bios (usb support/legacy enabled and SATA configuration on enhanced) and no dos drivers! And it is a NTFS disk!

Well, I started to look at my Lacie with suspect. So I checked the documentation but found nothing interesting, apart the obvious recommendation (it is USB/Firewire) to use Windows XP/2000/Vista. Then I read something curious on the product box: "built-in raid 0 for extreme firewire 800 speed: no configuration"! Checked the company site: "The LaCie Big Disk Extreme+ provides enormous capacity and a transparent, built-in RAID 0 array with no configuration for fast FireWire 800 speed".

So, apart the misleading documentation (it seems like raid 0 is active only with firewire 800), I think that my problem is that there is some form of hardware/software raid embedded in the disk controller (of which there is no trace in the product manual) that prevents the correct use under dos. Indeed there should be two disk in the case which work in raid 0.

I wrote to Lacie asking for help, but I imagine the reply: "we told you before: dos is not supported".

I think I'm at a dead end but if somebody has a different idea...

 
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2007 at 10:44am
 
I've just realized that the raid problem must not be unsourmontable, given that the bios of the Thinkpad works perfectly with the disk (I completely forgot that Ghost works with the Thinkpad). Maybe  the problem is not the raid.
I'm completely lost...
 
 
IP Logged
 
markymoo
N00b
Offline


I Love Radified!

Posts: 9


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #9 - Nov 11th, 2007 at 12:11am
 
Hello, I have a similar problem to yours. I have asus p5bd and trying to get dos to see my usb. It's a external usb with a 80gb ide drive inside nothing fancy. Dos sees the drive but comes up with unable to mount file system. It's ntfs and i can access it fiine in xp. I think our problem to do with the p5b. Have you tried messing with the usb settings in the bios theres a few. I will try that. I am trying a wide number of usb boot disks. Tiny info on web on this. I don't believe you have to use fat32. If it work right it should see any filing system. Loading ntfs4dos lets you see a partititon in dos. It might be worth trying to backup any data and reformatting the drive again. I keep trying more boot disks.
 
 
IP Logged
 
markymoo
N00b
Offline


I Love Radified!

Posts: 9


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #10 - Nov 11th, 2007 at 12:29am
 
You could try making a BartPE disk and running ghost from that. That would solve it.
 
 
IP Logged
 

markymoo
N00b
Offline


I Love Radified!

Posts: 9


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #11 - Nov 11th, 2007 at 8:50am
 
i now suspect your drive has a bad mbr. when you delete and format a partititon most partition s/w wont put a new mbr on it. even if it does it still bad because theres corruption in extended mbr so you need to wipe the first 63 sectors of the drive with a mbr util then reboot and then create a partition. backup your data before you do on this drive as it wipe it. so that is why your usb drivers wont mount its filesystem. the partition table corrupt. this was my problem which i now solved. formatting your drive to fat32 is bollocks its fine as ntfs.
 
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2007 at 9:55am
 
markymoo,

thanks for your contribution. Indeed I tried all bios settings possible, both in the USB section and in the SATA section (as suggested by NightOwl). I thinks also that problem is not the file system, because I was able to use Ghost with a different USB NTFS disk (see my post #8 above). At least, it is not *only* the file system, but probably the combination of BIOS/file system/hardware of the disk. The bios must have some responsability, because the same disk does work in another computer with a different bios (see my post #1); but the hardware of the Lacie is also involved because the p5b bios does work with another usb ntfs disk (Teac)!

I tried NTFS4DOS: it reports the directories present on the disk, but cannot access them ("cd" command causes "invalid directory"). It also wrongly reports the capacity of the disk.

AS for BartPE, I think that it can work only with the ghost32 version of the program and not with the ghost 2003 dos executable. Please, correct if I'm wrong.

I'm leaning to reformat the disk making small partitions. You might probably be correct about the bad mbr. I remember that I stopped the first format operation because it was late (it took hours to format 1 TB). Could you suggest me an mbr wiping utility (working under Xp)?

I forgot to note that Ghost never showed the message about identifying the new disk, even if it lists the disk in the "look in" window (but cannot operate on it). BTW does Ghost *write* something on the disk during the new disk identification procedure?
 
 
IP Logged
 
NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5801
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #13 - Nov 12th, 2007 at 10:40am
 
bbct

Quote:
I forgot to note that Ghost never showed the message about identifying the new disk, even if it lists the disk in the "look in" window (but cannot operate on it). BTW does Ghost *write* something on the disk during the new disk identification procedure?

If Ghost 2003 *sees* a new HDD that it has not previously *marked*, then you will get a pop-up screen during the initial loading asking permission to *mark* the HDD--you have to select whether to allow the *marking* or not.

Once *marked* (writes some code to the last sector (#62) of the boot region--old style boot region=sector 0 thru 62, i.e. total of 63 sectors), Ghost 2003 will not pop-up that request again.
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
bbct
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Italy


Back to top
Re: Ghost 2003 and external disk
Reply #14 - Nov 14th, 2007 at 4:06am
 
Hello again!

I resolved on repartitioning/reformatting the Lacie. I'm experimenting with different partition schemes and file system, as you know it takes time, so I'll report when I have some results.

BTW, could anybody suggest me the best/easiest/quickest method to wipe all info (MBR, MFT and so on) from the disk to start with a fresh hardware? I don't need to securely wipe all data, only those that may influence the interaction between disk hardware, bios motherboard and operating system

NightOwl:

thank you for the clarification about Ghost marking method. Do you know what are the consequences in usual Ghost operations (cloning/imaging) if one declines to mark the disk when requested?
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print