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Linux (Magoo) (Read 21565 times)
Rad
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Linux (Magoo)
Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm
 
Does IE support Linux?

What browsers are available for Linux?

What do you use?

Do all apps designed for Linux also have to fall under GNU licensing? (or whatever licensing governs Linux)

What is the biggest draw-back to using Linux? Driver support?

What is considered the biggest advantage of Linux? (besides price)

After you have learned how to install, configure and use Linux, are you pretty much set for life?

By that, I mean, are you pretty much where you'd be at with Windows? .. where only incremental learning is required with each O/S update (such as WXP > to > Vista).

Is there a place where the growth of Linux users are maintained? (web site tracking growth of Linux users)

What is the best help forum for Linux newbies?

Is Linux development continuing? Slowing? Accelerating?

Where is Linux heading? (developmentally)

How much space is required for the average Linux desktop install?

How much difference is involved between an average desktop install (Ubuntu) and a server install (such as CentOS 5)?
 
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MrMagoo
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #1 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:59am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
Does IE support Linux? 

I think you mean to ask "Does IE run on Linux?" and the answer is No.  Microsoft owns IE and I've never seen them develop an application that runs natively on Linux.  Not that I blame them.  Many MS apps (like Office) do run with Wine, but I don't think IE is one of them.
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
What browsers are available for Linux?

What do you use?

Konqueror, Firefox, and Opera all work natively on Linux.  I use Firefox.  Now that Flash 9 has a Linux version, its been a long time since I visited a site that doesn't work in FF on Linux.  Only issue is occasionally sites with QuickTime video, which seems to fallen out of favor anyway.  There is probably a way to get it working, but I run across it so rarely these days I haven't bothered.

Opera works great on Linux.  Opera has always been a very innovative browser and I don't think it gets enough attention.  Unfortunately, there are some sites that don't work with Opera (even in Windows.)  They are mostly sites with heavy multimedia or banks (which code for specific browsers and Opera doesn't get enough traffic for them to code for it.)

Konqueror used to be popular because it came installed on many distributions.  Most distributions have switched to including FF instead.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #2 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:08am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
Do all apps designed for Linux also have to fall under GNU licensing? (or whatever licensing governs Linux)

You are thinking of the GPL, which is the license that the Linux kernel uses.  The answer is No. 

Software with a wide variety of licenses runs on Linux, from the completely open "public domain" license and the barely restrictive "Unix-style license" to closed source proprietary licenses.  Opera is one example of closed source code that runs on Linux. 

The beauty of the GPL is that it fully allows this.  Most of the restirctions included in the GPL relate to redistribution of the software.  So, you can *use* GPL software however you want.  You just have to comply with certain terms with you *give* it away to someone else.  Mainly these restrictions include that you also make any modifications you've made to a GPL program available to everyone you redistribute the program to. The license doesn't extend to original programs you create to run in conjunction with GPL software (although derivative works can get sticky.)
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:31am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
What is the biggest draw-back to using Linux? Driver support?

What is considered the biggest advantage of Linux? (besides price)

Driver support is less and less of a factor.  Linux is in a far better position today that it was when I started learning it a few years ago, and was far better then than a few years before that.  Most everything works fine - printers, scanners, video cards, etc.  But, I do have a sound card right now that should give me 5.1 surround but is currently only playing stereo.  The drivers are out there, but the installation of the drivers is non-trivial and I haven't made the time to get it working since I installed it a few days ago.  So, driver support is still behind Windows.

With several of the big vendors like Dell and HP now selling Linux desktops, word on the street is that they will start pushing vendors for better Linux drivers.  For example, there are rumors that AMD/ATI is considering releasing their video drivers as open source.  So, it gets better every year and that trend is not slowing.

I think the biggest disadvantage of Linux is still some big-named software doesn't work.  Photoshop and Dreamweaver used to be my examples, but they both work in Wine now, so I don't have good examples for you, but that's usually the deal-breaker.  Professional audio software and niche things like that don't always have a perfect Linux counter-part (although I'm often surprised at the high quality of the Linux alternatives.)  Games is the biggest gotcha.  Most of the newest hit-title games don't work in Linux (although many of them work in Wine within the first year on the market, including WoW.)

The other disadvantage I've found after using Linux for a few years is that not everything is point-and-click.  MOST things are, and distros like Ubuntu make running Linux simpler every day, but I still occasionally run across a program I want to use that has to be installed by compiling from source.  It's usually not difficult, but does involve textual commands on a command line, which is a put-off for many users.  You won't run into this if you are just reading email, chatting with friends, and surfing the internet.  But power-users who do more diverse things with their computer will run into it from time to time.

For me, the biggest advantage of Linux is the freedom.  I love being able to set exactly how the system will run and how it will behave.  It's very hard to describe exactly what I mean because most people think of making code changes to the underlying OS when I say that, and that is not what I mean.  Linux has infinite options, and you can usually find someone who will help you hack it to do something even if the option doesn't exist.  There's no company trying to force you to use Linux in a certain way. 

Linux is also very powerful.  In other OS's (I won't bother to name them,) you have to pay more money for more features.  What's fun about Linux is you can get all the features for free.  You can also take them all out for free.  Linux can be stripped down to run from a 50MB miniature CD, customized for specific purposes, or you can just install everything under the sun and have it all at your fingertips.

Then, there are the standard reasons everyone spouts in Linux's favor: it uses less system resources - making it feel faster on the same hardware, it is more stable, and I still think it's more secure (despite studies of the number of bugs, patches, whatever - I haven't used antivirus for 2 years now and never had a problem and you can't do that on Windows.)
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #4 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:43am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
After you have learned how to install, configure and use Linux, are you pretty much set for life?

By that, I mean, are you pretty much where you'd be at with Windows? .. where only incremental learning is required with each O/S update (such as WXP > to > Vista).

Yes and no.  Like I mentioned above, surfing, chatting, email, music, movies, word processing, spread-sheets, etc all work great.  Grandma my never even notice you switched her computer.  You basic computer user won't need any hand holding once Linux is installed and running (aside from some initial instruction to ease the transition...)

Power-users will run into things that aren't point-and-click.  I learn a little every week.

Upgrades are usually seamless.  The big incremental learning takes place if you decide to switch distros.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #5 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:48am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
What is the best help forum for Linux newbies?

Google.

"Linux" is very broad, so there isn't a place that is good at everything.  But, there are many places that are good at something and Google is really good at finding them.

Also, there are forums set up for each specific distribution - Red Hat, Ubuntu, etc.  Those are always great places to find information, even if you don't run that specific distribution.  For example, I'm running Arch Linux on my desktop right now, and Google often finds the answer to my question on the Ubuntu forums (even tho they are structured very differently.)
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #6 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:54am
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
How much space is required for the average Linux desktop install?

For a desktop, use the same guidelines as Windows XP.  You'll need a few GB for the OS and programs.  It looks like I'm currently using 4GB.  Giving yourself room for temp files and whatnot, I wouldn't go under 10GB or you'll eventually wish you had more.  As always, you'll appreciate any extra.

You can also share some space.  For example, you could have a 10GB partition with WinXP install, an 10Gb partition with Ubuntu installed, and a 50GB partition where you place documents, music, whatever.  Linux can read/write NTFS now, so sharing data with Windows has few roadblocks.  I don't think I would share a drive that has the Windows OS installed to it, tho.  Theoretically there is no problem with it but I don't trust Linux not to stomp some hidden file somewhere crucial to Windows... just my paranoia.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:56am
 
I'll get to the rest of your questions over the next few days.  I need to sleep now, but these are great questions many people might have about Linux.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #8 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 9:39am
 
no hurry.

oh, you already answered most of them. thanks.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #9 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 9:46am
 
MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 3:59am:
I use Firefox.

does ff run at the same v3.0, like on windows? i mean, does mozilla release both win and linux versions concurrently? .. or is there a lag for the linux release?
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #10 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 9:58am
 
MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:08am:
The license doesn't extend to original programs you create to run in conjunction with GPL software (although derivative works can get sticky.)  

i recall there was a big brouhaha over pay-apps created to run with joomla .. or at least this is what i heard from pro-drupal folks. sticky.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #11 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 1:45pm
 
Rad wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 9:46am:
does ff run at the same v3.0, like on windows?

Yes.  They simply compile multiple versions - Windows, Linux, Mac, etc - of the same source, so they are all released at the same time and have the same features. 

Note that they may not have the exact same plugins and themes.  Most plugins work perfectly in Linux, but a small number (such as the PayPal plugin) do not work in Linux.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #12 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:01pm
 
Rad wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 9:58am:
i recall there was a big brouhaha over pay-apps created to run with joomla

Yes, and last I checked the Joomla crew was strongly encouraging their plugin developers to adhear to the GPL.  The issue there is that the plugins *require* Joomla to work and cannot run on their own outside of Joomla.  Because they rely on Joomla and are not an independent work, the GPL Joomla was released under says they must follow the GPL.  It was thought to be a gray area, but Joomla's legal advisers steered them toward requiring compliance.

I don't necessarily think the commercial plugins were a bad thing.  It encouraged people to develop good plugins in exchange for some income.  The Joomla team could still allow this to happen, but they would have to re-license Joomla under something that allows that - probably a BSD-style license.  Of course, that would open them up to someone possibly creating a completely closed source version of Joomla (and charging for it.)
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #13 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:21pm
 
Rad wrote on Jul 12th, 2008 at 9:45pm:
Is there a place where the growth of Linux users are maintained? (web site tracking growth of Linux users)

The short answer is no.

Answering this runs into the problem that "Linux" is very big.  Do you mean all Unix flavors (including the BSD's, Linux distros, Solaris, and everything that is Unix like)?  Do you mean just Linux?  Do you mean servers, PDA's, embeded devices, etc?  What you count will skew the numbers significantly.  Linux has always had a large share of the server market.  Linux currently dominates the UMPC market, and is growing quickly in the PDA market.  It also runs on everything from the Space Shuttle to TiVo.

I'm going to assume you want to track the Linux Desktop usage specifically.  Unfortunately, that question isn't easy to answer either. Distrowatch.com tracks the popularity of various distributions.  You can make a rough estimate of trends from their site.  Google Trends can provide some insight, it is hard to draw any conclusions from.  Other than that, I don't know of a web site that has an up-to-date number of Linux desktops or even how such a survey could be accomplished reasonably.

It's too bad, cuz I'm as interested as you are in knowing.
 
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #14 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:42pm
 
MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13th, 2008 at 2:01pm:
Yes, and last I checked the Joomla crew was strongly encouraging their plugin developers to adhear to the GPL.The issue there is that the plugins *require* Joomla to work and cannot run on their own outside of Joomla.Because they rely on Joomla and are not an independent work, the GPL Joomla was released under says they must follow the GPL.It was though to be a gray area, but Joomla's legal advisers steered them toward requiring compliance.

I don't necessarily think the commercial plugins were a bad thing.It encouraged people to develop good plugins in exchange for some income.The Joomla team could still allow this to happen, but they would have to re-license Joomla under something that allows that - probably a BSD-style license.Of course, that would open them up to someone possibly creating a completely closed source version of Joomla (and charging for it.) 

Oh, good. You are more up on this than I am. Glad you understand it, and are able to explain it. But, like you said .. licensing can be sticky.
 
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