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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #15 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 2:46pm

MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 2:21pm:

The short answer is no.

I see. I was thinking of a web site where one can see a percentage of the different browsers used. I am sensitive to this cuz IE6, which many still use, is riddled with "standard's bugs" .. if you will .. which don't handle certain aspects of web page presentation as the standards define. But I can see how quantifying Linux use would be much more difficult.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #16 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 3:43pm

Rad wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 9:45pm:

How much difference is involved between an average desktop install (Ubuntu) and a server install (such as CentOS 5)?

The difference is whatever you want it to be.

Desktop distributions typically include things you would use on any Windows computer - a graphical interface, user applications like browser and word processor, multimedia drivers, wireless card drivers, etc.

Server distributions usually don't have those things. They are stripped of the lights and magic to increase security and performance. They include server applications like the Apache web server, Perl and PHP, and other things.

Of course, you can always add and subtract things. You can have a graphical environment on your server if you don't mind the resource usage. You can run Apache on a desktop installation if you want to test web pages as you develop them. Flexibility is the fun of Linux.

Although some distributions are better known for being either a server distro or a desktop distro, they can all do everything. The two you mentioned are particularly flexible. CentOS makes a perfectly good desktop if you select the right packages during install (there is even a button to help select packages suitable for desktops,) and many people do run Fedora as a desktop distro. (Fedora is Red Hat's community based development train for Red Hat Enterprise Workstation, which is the source code that eventually becomes CentOS.)

Ubuntu's desktop version is currently the most popular Linux desktop, but they also have a stripped down, security hardened version intended to be run on servers. Not all distributions are good at everything, but most of the big distros are what you make of them.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #17 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 3:52pm

MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 3:43pm:

The difference is whatever you want it to be.

My question (it's probably obvious, maybe not) is geared toward how much I would/could learn using Linux as a server, while installing it as my desktop.

You answers clarifies nicely.

The command line is where Linux magic occurs, it seems to me .. at least in the server version(s).

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #18 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 3:59pm

Rad wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 9:45pm:

Is Linux development continuing? Slowing? Accelerating?

Accelerating. As interest in Linux ramps up, more developers get on-board. The biggest growth comes when the big companies (Nokia, Asus, Google, etc) get interested in Linux because of products they want to offer (smart phones, Eee PC, and Android Phones, respectively.) Some of the development they do for their products trickles back to the community (through the GPL) and all Linux users benefit from it.
Rad wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 9:45pm:

Where is Linux heading? (developmentally)

Wow. Tough question. Linux is so flexible it could head anywhere. Desktop usage is increasing. UMPC's (like the Asus Eee PC) running Linux were a smash hit with consumers last year. Android and several other Linux PDA's are looking to take a stab at the mobile phone market next year.

Linux runs on lots of things from satellites to medical equipment, and the kernel maintainers have done a great job at keeping the Linux core flexible, so I don't think anyone can say where it is headed.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #19 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 4:03pm

Rad wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 3:52pm:

The command line is where Linux magic occurs, it seems to me .. at least in the server version(s).

The command line does have lots of useful tools that are quicker and easier to use in plain text than a graphical tool might be. You don't have to learn the command line to use a Linux computer, but it does make it way more fun to take care of the computer.

Most servers (like your Virtual Hosting) don't have a graphical environment, so learning the command line is a must in a server environment. It's really not too hard if someone gives you some basic commands to get you started (see my guide.)

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	Re: Linux (Magoo) Reply #20 - Jul 13^th, 2008 at 5:12pm Yes, I read your guide. Also saw these resources: http://www.linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Guide-Commands-Editors-Programming/dp/0131478230...
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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #21 - Jul 14^th, 2008 at 11:23am

Those are great links. I think I'll add them to my guide.

I had a difficult time with that guide. "Linux" is a big subject, but I didn't want to focus my topic much more than that because that is where most people start at. They want to know about this Linux thing and they don't know where to start. I've thought about how to improve it several times but I haven't settled on an approach.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #22 - Jul 16^th, 2008 at 12:38pm

MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 4:31am:

I think the biggest disadvantage of Linux is still some big-named software doesn't work. Photoshop and Dreamweaver used to be my examples,

Is The Gimp Linux equivalent to Photoshop? Or does it lag behind Photoshop in terms of image-editing capability & functions?
(Keeping aside the user interface/'GimpShop'; here The Gimp is referred-to only from what it can accomplish in terms of photo-editing vs Photoshop).

Linux User 483705 | (openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04, i686) w/ Windows XP

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #23 - Jul 16^th, 2008 at 7:28pm

I'm not big into photo editing, so I can't verify for you. The Gimp supposedly competes well functionally with Photoshop. There are complaints about the user interface on The Gimp, but a redesign of the UI is underway (and similar complaints exist about Photoshop.)

The Gimp runs perfectly well on both Windows and Linux (Mac too, I think) so if that is a killer app for you, you can try it in Windows before migrating to Linux. Let me know your experience if you try it out. I'm curious how it compares in the hands of an experienced photo editor.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #24 - Jul 17^th, 2008 at 3:51pm

MrMagoo wrote on Jul 16^th, 2008 at 7:28pm:

I'm curious how it compares in the hands of an experienced photo editor.

?? ... I am not into photo-editing or web design in any significant way (though Rad, going by his recent blog entries, *is*). Don't know what gave you that impression (sorry for the pun)?
Only use IrfanView once in a while if I need to add a markout or caption to (e.g.) a screenshot or do very basic photo editing (contrast, brightness, resolution, etc); earlier used to do the same in MS-PowerPoint or Word (via the Drawing Toolbar).

Tried installing TheGimp (think it was ver 2.2) sometime back, but found the interface too 'advanced' (perhaps not the right word) for my needs.

Linux User 483705 | (openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04, i686) w/ Windows XP

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #25 - Aug 16^th, 2008 at 11:04am

MrMagoo wrote on Jul 13^th, 2008 at 2:21pm:

Re: Linux (Magoo)

Rad wrote on Jul 13th, 2008, 9:15am:
Is there a place where the growth of Linux users are maintained? (web site tracking growth of Linux users)

The short answer is no.

Answering this runs into the problem that "Linux" is very big...

For desktop Linux use, this website may be a rough guide:
http://i18n.counter.li.org/estimates.php

Linux User 483705 | (openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04, i686) w/ Windows XP

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #26 - Sep 9^th, 2008 at 5:46am

Mind if I drop in

got atleast a few months of linux experiance now

Rad wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 9:45pm:

Does IE support Linux?

It is possible to run IE via Wine the question is though why ?

Quote:

What browsers are available for Linux?

Firefox, all version.
Opera, which I use both in xp and linux, even linked most files so got same bookmarks and stuff
KDE has its own Konqurer which also works

Quote:

What do you use?

Opera, although there is an issue at times with the flash 9 crap, will be checking out chrome when the linux version is available, although you can run the windows version via Wine

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Do all apps designed for Linux also have to fall under GNU licensing? (or whatever licensing governs Linux)

Not as far as I know, there are several licensing scemes, I know my nvidia drivers are not open source while the new ATI are (but they seem to have a long way to go)

Quote:

What is the biggest draw-back to using Linux? Driver support?

Well tbh it was the gfx drivers, I used to have an ATI but it just totaly would not work, I still play LotRo via Wine and that just did not work, dropped the ATI card, got a nvidia 8800 GT and that solved it all. Still using my old audigy sound card for the reason that the new card I have does not have good drivers, Creative FX drivers are just big pile of something smelly. Audigy drivers are perectly supported even 5.1. Wireless works, usb 2.0 and all the rest.

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What is considered the biggest advantage of Linux? (besides price)

Well stability for me, the community and believe it or not it has been ages I had so much fun with an OS, tinkering and so on.

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After you have learned how to install, configure and use Linux, are you pretty much set for life?

I am, I installed virtualbox with a win2000 install on it, I can use that to log in for work via vpn and citrix and that is it, can even mount the vitrual disk localy to have direct access to it. I have not booted into xp for last 3 months.

Quote:

By that, I mean, are you pretty much where you'd be at with Windows? .. where only incremental learning is required with each O/S update (such as WXP > to > Vista).

The learing is steap at start if you want to do more then just the basic desktop/office stuff. You need to learn about the rights, learn how to mount you ntfs filesystems so you can get to those mp3's you have on windows etc. etc. But I also switched my mum at home over to Linux (opensuse 11.0 right now, 10.3 before that) and she is 72 and surfing the web, patching when patches come available, mailing etc. etc. I went for the KDE 3 desktop, looks most familiar with windows so makes the change smaller. KDE 4 still to new.

You need to learn that unlike windows being logged in as admin/root is NOT good, you need to learn that your home directory, lets call it your program files, is seperate to your OS partition (root).

Quote:

Is there a place where the growth of Linux users are maintained? (web site tracking growth of Linux users)

no idea.

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What is the best help forum for Linux newbies?

Well I use the opensuse.org forums, but just do a search in google for your problem and you find several answers. Ubunto forums also a good source.

Quote:

Is Linux development continuing? Slowing? Accelerating?

I just keep up to date with Opensuse and they released 11.0 a few months ago, and 11.1 gone be released end of the year, I dont see it stopping.

Quote:

Where is Linux heading? (developmentally)

Not sure, in some things its behind windows, in others its ahead, stability, 30sec bootup no mather how much more I install. Yast is so much ahead of the whole windows control pannel.

Quote:

How much space is required for the average Linux desktop install?

Not that much, I can only speak for OpenSuse, it will make a 2GB partiton for your swap. then it needs about 5GB for the OS itself (root) and it will make a partition for your home directory, the more you want to do the more you need.

Quote:

How much difference is involved between an average desktop install (Ubuntu) and a server install (such as CentOS 5)?

I just use it as a desktop machine but then it can also be a server just dont login into KDE/Gnome I guess

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #27 - Sep 9^th, 2008 at 5:54am

Quote:

The command line is where Linux magic occurs, it seems to me .. at least in the server version(s).

tbh if you want to do more then linux out of the box on your desktop you gone be using the commandline on the desktop also, compile some new software for which there is no package available for your specific linux version.

and that sounds more difficult then it is, most of the time you download the source and unpack it. Go to the directory with Konqurer, press F4 to open commandline, Type ./configure to see if you got all the dependencies (if you mis one use the package tool, in my case Yast, to install it). then type make, if that works then sudo make install and you compiled and installed it.

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Re: Linux (Magoo)
Reply #28 - Sep 9^th, 2008 at 6:07am

small note, if you want to try it out get a LiveCD, you can bootup your PC with it, nothing gets installed and you running simply from the CD, its not screaming fast but might give you a good idea. For Suse go to http://software.opensuse.org/

sidenote: stick with 32bit, it still gives less issues and I can still access my 4GB fine under 32bit OS.
sidenote: If you plan to install use the DVD install and not via the liveCD.

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