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Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3 (Read 7095 times)
donPC
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Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:49am
 
This is my first post so hello to all - I've found a lot of useful info here, and believe I have read and followed advice here and on symantecs website to update to ghost v.793.

I continue getting error LU1825. I have done the following:

1. completely disinstalled my systemworks 2003 professional edition.
2. used the norton removal tool, to make sure it was a clean uninstall.
3. reinstall succesfully systemworks 2003.
4. followed the instructions from symantec on "How to obtain the programs updates that are archived on Symantec LiveUpdate server".
5. this successfully allowed me to access the archives server and update from version xxx to version 789.

Many posts I've read here say that you need to run the update from the archive server twice to get to v.793.

When I do this, live update correctly sees that it needs to download v.793 (specifically 'Norton Ghost 2003 Live Update 2 (3730.7kb)'), it does download it, a dos window opens (that tries to execute ghostlu.exe and during installation a LU1825 error occurs stating that some needed files don't exist (rough translation from Spanish - both my operating system and system works 2003 are in Spanish, error messages and all).

Can anyone shed some light on what I should do next?

I need the update to save to and recover ghost images  from an external usb2.0 hard disk.

Regards to all.
 
 
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Nigel Bree
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #1 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 5:36pm
 
This is the second report here of something not being entirely right with the non-English downloads of the Ghost 2003 LiveUpdate, another person reported the german versions weren't working either. Unfortunately it's not easy to look into, and since it's the weekend I don't have access to the systems which have our original masters. I'll try and dig this out of our archives on our monday and assuming I can find it I'll arrange to PM you a download link.
 
 
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donPC
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #2 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 9:44pm
 
Hello Nigel,

Any help is greatly appreciated!

FWIW, the directory paths  for Spanish XP are not  the same as the English ones. For example 'C:\Program Files\Symantec\LiveUpdate\Settings.Hosts.LiveUpdate' is the path 'C:\Archivos de Programa\Symantec\LiveUpdate\Settings.Hosts.LiveUpdate'. The latter is where the Spanish version of SystemWorks installs. The strange thing though is that the Spanish XP also has the 'C:\Program Files' folder, but it's empty.

When the DOS installation execute window appears, I can see that the file path has a limitation on the file and directory name's length as there are a few '~' characters visible.

Is it possible that there is some sort of file or folder name being changed when translated into German or Spanish that isn't being accounted for?

 
 
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TheShadow
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #3 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 7:45pm
 
At the risk of being flamed, again, ........

Ghost.exe (Ghost 2003) was originally designed to be run from a DOS boot floppy disk, so why not just run it that way and bypass all that other stuff.

Since Ghost backs up ones and zeros, I doubt it gives a hoot about what language of OS it's backing up.
Of course, I could be wrong.  I was, once. Wink

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Nigel Bree
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #4 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:19pm
 
donPC wrote on Oct 4th, 2008 at 9:44pm:
FWIW, the directory pathsfor Spanish XP are not the same as the English ones

That should be all catered for; there's actually an API in Windows for looking up the translated names of these directories. Aside from the effort we went through in avoiding language-specific things in the actual code, the translation and testing of the european-language versions of all Symantec's programs was done by a specialized group in Dublin, Ireland who did nothing else but handle things like this.

I suspect the main problem is that something has gone wrong with the configuration of the archive LiveUpdate server, rather than a bug in the updating process itself.

donPC wrote on Oct 4th, 2008 at 9:44pm:
I can see that the file path has a limitation on the file and directory name's length as there are a few '~' characters visible. 

Actually this isn't occurring as a result of a length limitation; the ~ character is something innate to Windows which isn't normally something you see. Thanks to the evolution of modern versions of Windows out of Windows 95 and Windows 3.1, which were built on MS-DOS, there is a compatibility system in which there is a second version of the name of every file.

In original MS-DOS (on top of which Windows was originally built), file names were limited to 8 characters long, had to be all upper-case, and could not contain spaces. It wasn't until Windows 95 that Microsoft created a system which allowed it to work with longer names, and to allow upper- and lower-case characters and spaces in the file names.

So, in order to manage the transition process, in addition to a folder name "C:\Program Files" there is another "short" name for the same folder (typically "C:\PROGRA~1") for older software to use. When writing programs for Windows, there are in fact about three different ways to do anything, and in Ghost 2003 (and LiveUpdate) in order for the code to be compatible with Windows 95 there are some older programming interfaces used which cause these short file names to be used and displayed instead of the regular longer names.

[ In modern software which doesn't have to be compatible with the really ancient versions of Windows, the developers can use the more recent systems of working with file names which don't go through all this strange compatibility stuff, and so you wouldn't normally see a path like that being used in a visible way. ]
 
 
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Nigel Bree
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #5 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:21pm
 
Anyway, I'm PMed you with a link from which you can get the Spanish version of the LiveUpdate which I've got from our internal archives (for some odd reason it's labelled as "sl" instead of "es" for the spanish language, but that's something the group in Dublin did rather than us) so you can run the update manually, and if there's a really major problem with the update you can extract them by hand.
 
 
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donPC
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File differences - Ghost 2003 update to v.793
Reply #6 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:35am
 
Thanks for the link, Nigel.

I unzipped the files and compared them to what I've got, with results as follows:

Your PMed version 789      Yours(bytes)      My system after clean installation of NortonSystemWorks 2003 ProfessionalEdition
                             and Symantec procedure to update archived programs

ASPI1394.SYS            51150            51150            C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Datos de programa\Symantec\Ghost\Template\common
ASPIEHCI.SYS            52106            52106            ""
gdisk.exe            328.288      328.288      C:\Archivos de programa\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Ghost      
Ghost Boot Wizard.exe      552.960      552.960
ghost.exe            1.027.660      1.027.660
ghostlu.exe            200.704            NOT FOUND!
ghostlu.ini            749            NOT FOUND!
GhostStart.exe            2.490.438      2.490.438
ghreboot.exe            178.784            178.784
ghstwalk.exe            471.924            471.924
ghwrap.exe            219.428            219.428
leame.txt            28.088            28.088
ng2003upd2.dis            217            NOT FOUND!
VPartition.dll            892.998            892.998

Looks like copy and paste doesn't respect tabs, so forgive the bad format, anyway, hopefully you can see that there are 3 files not on my system, but that I found in your zipped rar file, ie ghostlu.exe, ghostlu.ini and ng2003upd2.dis.

File sizes for the rest of the files and last modification date coincide for your files and mine, as do version number 789 for those files which show version number when checking file properties when right clicking with WindowsXP.

If you could tell me where to put these 3 missing files, I could run the updating procedure again to see if it then works as it should.

 
 
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Nigel Bree
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #7 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 3:04pm
 
donPC wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:35am:
If you could tell me where to put these 3 missing files, I could run the updating procedure again to see if it then works as it should.

The ghostlu.exe, ghostlu.ini and ng2003ups2.dis files in the LU package aren't actually part of the product, they are just there for LiveUpdate to run - ghostlu.exe is what LiveUpdate runs just to copy the rest of the files in the package into your install (and delete a couple that arent needed any more)

So, that basically seems to suggest that 789 in fact did take on your system, but that 793 hasn't.

What you need to do next is unpack the zipfile with build 793 into a folder, and run (just double-clicking will do) the ghostlu.exe file contained within that zipfile.

Part of what it will do is copy the files in the 793 installer to your directory, and it not only copies the new files over, it removes a couple - it should delete the ASPI1394.SYS and ASPIEHCI.SYS drivers from the install directory; those are the components we licensed from Iomega for the initial release of Ghost 2003 to provide the FireWire and USB support, and in build 793 of Ghost 2003 they aren't desirable. Basically, because those drivers weren't as reliable as they needed to be, the build 793 update contains its own drivers which are built into Ghost.exe instead of loading in DOS.

[ This does mean that after build 793, you won't get a DOS drive letter for any any external USB/FireWire devices, but Ghost's built-in browser should still let you navigate to them and choose those as image source and destination. ]
 
 
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Roberto
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #8 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:35am
 
Hello.

I´m new here. First off all, sorry my English. I´m spanish living in Portugal.

I have the same problem that donPC in two computers.

I have one pc with XP SP3 in portuguese and a laptop XP SP3 in english (USA).

I follow exactly the same way. After the install and update, norton Ghost 2003 were 789. Folow the steps with the updater os symantec (archive) and now is 793.

I can´t make tha backup to USB 2. It, in windows, see the usb 2 but after the restart freeze looking for a letter for the usb drive.

What i´m doing wrong?
Thank you
 
 
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donPC
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #9 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 6:42pm
 
Nigel,

I followed your instructions and ran the ghostlu.exe for version 793, and it did update the files.

One thing though, it didn't delete the 2 .sys files.

Also, out of curiousity I reran the live update archive files, and it returned everything to version 789! And still gave me the LU1825 error! So looks like something is definitely wrong with the live update archive patch as it:
- doesn't detect that 793 is installed and downloads and installs 789
- and continues to generate 1825 error, and doesn't update to 793.

So now that I can successfully install v793, I'll now try ghosting an image to an ext usb2.0 hdd  - hopefully I can do it tomorrow, and let you know if it worked or not.
 
 
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:36am
 
@
 donPC

Quote:
Part of what it will do is copy the files in the 793 installer to your directory, and it not only copies the new files over, it removes a couple - it should delete the ASPI1394.SYS and ASPIEHCI.SYS drivers from the install directory; those are the components we licensed from Iomega for the initial release of Ghost 2003 to provide the FireWire and USB support, and in build 793 of Ghost 2003 they aren't desirable. Basically, because those drivers weren't as reliable as they needed to be, the build 793 update contains its own drivers which are built into Ghost.exe instead of loading in DOS.


Quote:
One thing though, it didn't delete the 2 .sys files.


I've been using Ghost 2003, build 793 for a long time!  And Ghost 2003 has always depended on those external DOS drivers for accessing Firewire and USB HDD's.

I think Ghost did not have internal coding for USB and Firewire access until Ghost v8.xx--the corporate version--the retail Ghost 2003 version was most similar to corporate Ghost 7.5!
 

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donPC
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 5:54am
 
Thanks for the input, NightOwl.

Looks like it's time to rename a couple of sys files, and try ghosting to an ext hdd!

Will post test results when have them.
 
 
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Nigel Bree
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #12 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 5:37pm
 
NightOwl wrote on Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:36am:
I think Ghost did not have internal coding for USB and Firewire access until Ghost v8.xx--the corporate version--the retail Ghost 2003 version was most similar to corporate Ghost 7.5! 

You might be right about the final result (I don't, and never really have, used Ghost 2003 - pretty much since Symantec got involved, I've been on the corporate side and not involved in the consumer products), but the situation with versions numbers is more complex than that; it isn't a linear progression at all.

Ghost 8 corporate and Ghost 2003 consumer were actually being worked on in parallel, more-or-less at the same time. There was already a bunch of work being done in parallel with 7.5, in fact, that was planned to be picked up in 8.0; Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8.0 differed in how they went about picking up that. Ghost 2003 was conservative, trying not to rely on too much of the new code too heavily and change as little as possible from 7.5, while Ghost 8.0 was using a lot of that new library full-bore.

So, the source code for the built-in USB drivers *is* there in the 2003 source code as part of our archives, since it's part of a piece it shared with 8.0, and what's different between 2003 and 8.0 was mostly the degree to which that new codebase got plumbed in. Unfortunately, not a single person who worked on the consumer product still works here (thanks to the cancellation of the genuine Ghost product line in 2004, we lost a LOT of staff) for me to ask about exactly what got exposed in what build of that line, and reverse-engineering it from our archives is pretty tedious.

My reading of the source is that the built-in drivers are there in 793, but of course the thing to remember is that they don't provide any form of drive-letter access. If you ask for drive-letter access, you're asking for external drivers because the "guest" piece licensed from Iomega used them.
 
 
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Re: Help, please!Ghost 2003 update to v.793: problems w/Spanish XP service pack 3
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:57am
 
@
 Nigel Bree

Quote:
So, the source code for the built-in USB drivers *is* there in the 2003 source code as part of our archives


Quote:
My reading of the source is that the built-in drivers are there in 793,

Well, if the code is there--I would have to say it is not *active*!  

Couple points:  

Ghost 7.5 and Ghost 2003 are small enough to still fit on a single 1.44 MB floppy--along with the basic DOS boot files--it was Ghost 8.xx that began to require a boot media greater than 1.44 MB--indicating that there was a lot more *built-in code* present in v8.xx.

I booted from a floppy with Ghost 2003, build 793 with no USB DOS drivers added to mount the USB controller and/or assign a DOS drive letter.  I had my USB external HDD turned on during boot--no external HDD lite activity occurred at any point during boot and the loading of Ghost 2003--so if Ghost *saw* the HDD, there was no indication it made a successful access to determine what it was *seeing*!  And, I could not find any entry in the source or destination dialog boxes that indicated that Ghost was aware of the USB HDD.  So, I have to surmise that if the code is there--it's in-active!

Quote:
[ This does mean that after build 793, you won't get a DOS drive letter for any any external USB/FireWire devices, but Ghost's built-in browser should still let you navigate to them and choose those as image source and destination. ]

I'm curious--how exactly does Ghost list the external HDD in the Ghost interface if no DOS letter has been assigned--is it the same way non-DOS partitions are listed--as a drive #:partition #?
 

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