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Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning? (Read 9902 times)
aaron
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Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Oct 10th, 2008 at 9:31pm
 
OS is WinXP SP2
Old HDD is a 60GB PATA, single partition (and is full)
New HDD is a 320GB PATA

I have Ghost 2003 on a boot (DOS) disk.   Is there any way that I can clone my 60 onto the 320 and have Ghost consume the entire larger drive as a single partition?  ...or must I use a partition manager after doing the clone to accomplish that?
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #1 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 1:41am
 
@
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Should only have to do a *Local > Disk > To Disk* procedure--Ghost will automatically suggest filling the whole new disk--but give you the option to make it something smaller if you wish.
 

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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #2 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 5:03am
 
Yes, you can definitely do it. I did something very similar, using Ghost 2003, only a month or two ago. If your PC allows, do it using a Bootdisk (make it by using the appropriate Ghost Boot Wizard, in the Ghost Utilities in the main Windows interface of Ghost 2003), as my view is that using a Bootdisk is more straightforward.

Once the program's booted into Ghost, choose the Local>Disk>Disk procedure from the menu. Normally, you'll not need to set any extra options there. You can either set the new partition size by typing in a specific (unformatted) size or you can use your mouse to pull some vertical markers in the dialog to one side or another to change the relative size. I think that the default is simply for Ghost to compare the current disk with the new one and to apportion the new size relatively. In your case, all you'll need do is to accept the default, unless you wish to leave a small amount of unpartitioned space on the new disk.

I'll be interested to learn how it works out for you, Aaron. In my case, I was cloning from an 80GB PATA disk to a 250GB PATA disk and though it all completed okay, I subsequently discovered that the new, bigger disk was never recognised by Ghost when doing imaging to an external disk. I ran a long discussion on this forum, to try to discover why. In the end, I concluded that there was a shortcoming in the BIOS of my PC. Because I have multiple partitions, I find I can still make partition images within the main disk, but I can't make any images any longer to the external disk (although drag n' drop with it still works). Thus, in my case, an issue of 'hard drive greater than 128GB' arose. With any luck, your PC will be much newer than mine and you won't have that problem.

One word of warning. If the new disk is inserted into the PC so that the two run side-by-side, then when the cloning finishes, DO NOT agree to 'Reset Computer?', which then comes up on the screen. If you do, the two disks will both attempt to boot back into Windows and the likely result will be that you'll corrupt one or the other. Instead, choose 'Continue?'. Then click on Quit, then type cd\ after the A:>Ghost. This puts you back to A:>. Remove the Bootdisk, then simply completely power off the PC. Some BIOSs will allow this if you press the PC's power-on switch for several seconds. Both disks will then be stopped and you can then safely remove the new disk.

Do remember of course to set up your BIOS appropriately, before you start the entire procedure. Make sure that, in the BIOS, the new disk is not only listed but is definitely recognised (this sometimes requires an extra selection). Make sure you set the physical jumpers appropriately on each drive, eg. either Cable Select, or one master, the other slave. Depending on your BIOS, you might also need to enable a slave DMA channel in it. Set also the boot order if you're using a Bootdisk.

It's again important, when you subsequently RE-clone a disk, to not miss getting into the BIOS when you first boot the two disks up together. If instead they both attempt to boot into Windows, you'll have the potential corruption problem on your hands.

Let us know how it works out.

 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #3 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 10:25am
 
Hey guys, thanks for that feedback.   Since posting I did learn that the BIOS on my Dell will have to be upgraded (flashed) in order for it to recognize the entire 320GB of my new drive.  So before cloning I will download the update (which is available on Dell's support site) and flash my BIOS.

Two final questions...

1.  Since I plan to perform the cloning operation using my Ghost 2003 DOS disk, will it be able to recognize and clone my NTFS volume?

2.  Dell placed 2 hidden (FAT) partitions on the 60GB drive for an emergency restore of the original configuration.  Well after 5 years of a great many Windows updates and other changes to my system I would never want to do that, so is it ok for me to delete those hidden partitions, freeing-up the space?   ...or better yet, can I somehow avoid cloning them onto the new 320GB drive?
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #4 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 12:27pm
 
@
 aaron

Quote:
Dell placed 2 hidden (FAT) partitions on the 60GB drive for an emergency restore of the original configuration.  Well after 5 years of a great many Windows updates and other changes to my system I would never want to do that, so is it ok for me to delete those hidden partitions, freeing-up the space?   ...or better yet, can I somehow avoid cloning them onto the new 320GB drive?

Don't do anything *yet*!  I'm busy for awhile today--probably can't answer until this evening--but you are likely to have a boot problem unless you clone with care and purposely!!!

There are solutions to the non-boot, *Missing *ntlr**, *No system found* issues--if you're prepared!!!

Here's some references for reading--and you will find discussions of this problem here on the forums with the proper searches:  

Dan Goodell's *Inside the Dell PC Restore Partition*

How to fix the Dell System Restore (DSR) feature

Dan Goodell's *Inside the Dell Utility Partition*
 

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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #5 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 2:54pm
 
Hmm, sounds potentially dangerous!  -  so I'll hold off until I hear back from you, or anyone else who can answer my question (for sure) as to the best way to prevent the Dell hidden partitions from copying onto my new 320GB drive!

I assume that the Ghost 2003 DOS disk will clone my NTFS volume without any issues?
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #6 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 3:49pm
 
Potentially?  More like CERTAINLY !!!

As a tech, I'd not do that job without the PC and both drives being right here in my shop where I have every hard drive management tool required to do the job.

The most dangerous part of your whole scenario is Flashing the Dell Bios.
The job usually requires a bootable floppy disk, with the flashing program and the new BIN file on it.
The PC should be on a good UPS, so that if there's a power glitch during the process, you don't wind up with a new Boat Anchor.  NOTHING can interfere with that flashing process or your motherboard is DEAD.  So be very, very careful.

Next you don't want to do anything with that HD till you're 120% sure that there are NO errors on that HD.  Run Chkdsk /r multiple times to assure there are NO errors.
If you truly don't ever want that recover partition again, ever, then it should be removed with a program like "Partition Magic 8" and the free space added to C:.

Then when you boot up with your Ghost boot disk and run DISK-to-Disk copy to your new drive, the operation should go off without a hitch.

To be 100% sure that my PC is properly seeing and utilizing a new HD, I boot up into DOS with my Windows ME boot disk and I FDISK and DOS format the new drive.  This absolutely assures that the mobo it properly seeing and addressing the drive and that there are no bad spots on the drive.  Then it's ready for anything I want to do with it.

I don't really expect everyone to do what I do, but then I don't have problems with my hard drives either. 
I've done dozens of clones with Ghost 2003 and NEVER had a miscombobulation. Wink

Do your preparations, and good luck,
The Shadow  Cool
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #7 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 7:15pm
 
Thanks for the sound advice, most of which I will definitely heed.  The only problem is that I don't have a UPS to preclude a power interuption while flashing the BIOS (a UPS won't work in my house because it's so old there is no true ground on the AC lines)!!!  
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #8 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 7:36pm
 
Don't confuse a UPS with a Surge Protector.

A battery back up system will power your computer with the power plug completely pulled out of the wall.....so what's beyond the wall has absolutely nothing to do with the usefulness or effectiveness of the UPS.

Now most UPS's also do offer a high degree of Surge Suppression.
For that reason, to get the most out of a UPS, it should be properly grounded.  You can do that yourself, by driving a copper grounding rod into the ground outside of your home, and running a ground wire in to the computer.

I used to have to engineer grounding in old buildings when installing huge computer systems for NCR.  But that's a different story.

So don't let poor grounding keep you from buying and using a UPS.

I have everything in my house that's important to me, battery backed up.
I just bought a nice little Cyber-Power 250watt UPS for my service bench.
I got the little UPS for only $39.95, on SALE.
That makes FIVE (5) UPS's in my house.

If you have a UPS that will only keep power on a PC for fifteen minutes, that will get you past any Bios Flashing exercise.
The wattage of a UPS is governed by the strength of the circuitry in the device.....while the time duration that it will provide that power is controlled by the size of the battery's themselves.

I have a 600w UPS on my 25" TV, Satellite Receiver, DVD Recorder, table lamp and small personal fan.  I replaced the small gel-cell battery that comes with the UPS with two large car batteries.  Run time is no longer in minutes, but hours.
...

So I hope that nobody will find a reason to NOT use a UPS on their home computer.  That's foolish, to say the least.

Good Luck to you,
The Shadow  Cool
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #9 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 10:21pm
 
@
 aaron

Quote:
sounds potentially dangerous!

Well, sure--if you're not prepared--but it's easily dealt with--as I said!

You need to first find out which partition Windows is booting from:  go to *My Computer*--right mouse click and select *Properties*, select the *Advance* tab, select the *Settings* button under the *Startup and Recovery*, select the *Edit* button under the *System startup* box--you should have the *boot.ini* file to look at!  Here's mine:

Quote:
[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /SOS


You want to look at which partition Windows boots from on your system--I suspect yours is either 2 or 3--because those Dell recovery and utility partitions are placed ahead of your Windows System Boot Partition.

If you're going to discard those Dell partitions, then the boot partition will become *1* on the new HDD, and your boot.ini will have to reflect that change--if left as *2* or *3*, then during boot, Windows reports those errors I mentioned above because your boot files are no longer in partition 2 or 3, but on *1*!

Here's how to prepare--get this DOS program from Terabyte:  TeraByte Unlimited Freeware--See *EditBini*.  Place the program on a floppy disk.  Boot to DOS, put the floppy in and run:  editbini  You should be able to bring up your *boot.ini* file and you should determine that you are able to edit it.  You'll need to use this on the NEW HDD when the time comes!

The Shadow recommended making changes to the OLD HDD before cloning--personally, I take a different approach--I leave the OLD HDD untouched as the ultimate original backup!

When you've finished flashing your system--hook up the NEW HDD--depending on your system--either using *cable select* and positions on the IDE cable--or using jumpers if *cable select* isn't an option--make the NEW HDD the *slave* HDD.  Boot to DOS and run Ghost--select *Local > Partition > To Disk*, select the correct partition with Windows on it as the source and the new HDD as the destination.  This procedure is going to take the single selected partition and make it fill the new HDD--the other two partitions will be left untouched and not copied over to the NEW HDD.

Once completed, shut down.  Remove the OLD HDD (it is unchanged and your ultimate backup if something hasn't gone well--it's safe!), and place the NEW HDD on the IDE cable in the same position as the OLD HDD.  Now boot to DOS, put that floppy in with the *editbini* program and run it.  Change to boot partition to *(1)*.  Shut down, remove any floppy.  Boot to Windows!!!  If all went as expected, you should be up and running!


Quote:
I assume that the Ghost 2003 DOS disk will clone my NTFS volume without any issues?

That is correct--barring unforeseen issues we are not yet aware of on your system!
 

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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #10 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 10:57pm
 
TheShadow wrote on Oct 11th, 2008 at 7:36pm:
I replaced the small gel-cell battery that comes with the UPS with two large car batteries.Run time is no longer in minutes, but hours.

TheShadow ,

What a great idea. Those gel-cell batteries cost almost as much as a UPS containing a battery. Recently I paid $120 for a UPS. A replacement battery is priced at $100. I have several old car batteries that are still usable.
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #11 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:13pm
 
@
 Brian

Code:
I have several old car batteries that are still usable. 


And, I have several old UPS units that need new batteries!


@
 TheShadow

I assume you just connect the + wire of the UPS unit to the + terminal of the battery--and same for for the - wire/terminal, but....is there any issue with the UPS unit being able to handle such a large size battery--does this over tax the electronics of the UPS unit in terms of being able to charge those car batteries--overheating/fire potentials?
 

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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #12 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:16pm
 
NightOwl,

Nice procedure. But I wonder if aaron has a laptop. He didn't say or did I miss it?
 
 
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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #13 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:26pm
 
@
 Brian

Quote:
Nice procedure.

Thanks!

This is all he said:
Quote:
OS is WinXP SP2
Old HDD is a 60GB PATA, single partition (and is full)
New HDD is a 320GB PATA

I suspect it's a desktop--but we'll have to wait to hear.
 

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Re: Can Ghost 2003 enlarge partition when cloning?
Reply #14 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 7:18am
 
I didn't mean to Hijack this thread.  But the subject of Flashing the Bios was brought up by the thread starter, so I thought I'd mention that if anything like a power glitch, stops the flashing process, that bios chip is effectively DEAD.
I just won't try to repartition a HD or flash a bios unless I know for sure that nothing like a power glitch is going to mess up the process.

Quote:
@ TheShadow

I assume you just connect the + wire of the UPS unit to the + terminal of the battery--and same for for the - wire/terminal, but....is there any issue with the UPS unit being able to handle such a large size battery--does this over tax the electronics of the UPS unit in terms of being able to charge those car batteries--overheating/fire potentials?


Yes.....different brands and models of UPS's have different connections for the battery.  On the old APC 600w unit I put those batteries on, I had to solder in new + and -  wires to go from the UPS to the battery box.
In the picture the wires are yellow and black.  I didn't have any red wire at the time. Wink
I put the 30A fuse holder in the + line for short circuit protection.
The charger in the UPS is sufficient to fully charge the batteries between uses.  I use only lead-acid batteries that I can open to check fluid levels.
They are cheaper than the full "Maintenance Free" batteries.
I think the two that I have now, were bought at Wal*Mart for about $39.95 ea.

If you live in the lightning capital of the Americas, like I do, you either spend a lot of the time in the dark, or you get inventive. 
But if you're an electronics tech of 44 years, you get inventive. Roll Eyes

During hurricane Frances, we had no line power for over four days.
While my neighbors were in the dark, I had TV, light and a fan to keep me cool.  I recharged my battery pack twice off of my car with jumper cables.

I really hope that 'Aaron' has had his questions answered. Huh

The Shadow  Cool
 
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