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Problem after hard drive won't boot (Read 31973 times)
NightOwl
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #30 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 6:57pm
 
@
leftyx

I'm tied up for awhile--so can't answer--but, STOP!  If you were not sure if your HDDs were IDE or SATA, then we need to take a couple steps back, take some slow, deep breaths (calm the nerves!), and start afresh.

Answer this--do you know how to enter the BIOS setup?  If *yes*, do you know how to look to see which HDD is set to be booted from?

I'll be back as soon as I can--but, I think I know a little bit about what may be going on!
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #31 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 7:04pm
 
Quote:
Answer this--do you know how to enter the BIOS setup?  If *yes*, do you know how to look to see which HDD is set to be booted from?

Yes I know how to enter the BIOS ssetup. No, I don't know how to tell which HDD is set to be booted from.
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #32 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 8:48pm
 
Going to sleep NightOwl. Leave me a message and I'll see it tomorrow.
Thank you:
Jordan Sacks
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #33 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 2:05am
 
@
leftyx

So, let's clear up a small item of terminology first--Brian asked this question in his reply #9:

Quote:
Are your HDs, IDE or SATA?


Your answer in your reply #10 was:

Quote:
HDDS are IDE.


And, you were *correct*!!!  But, you then said in your reply #29:

Quote:
I incorrectly said the HDDs were IDE. I opened the case and looked at the cable and it's a SATA drive cable for both HDDs.


That answer was *incorrect*!

Here's the deal--there's *Parallel* ATA (PATA) HDDs and there are *Serial* ATA (SATA) HDDs.  Parallel have the wide connector cables, and Serial have the very narrow connector cables.

However--both are considered IDE interface based HDDs!  Although it appears to be *common practice* to use the term *IDE* to refer to the older Parallel type HDDs (I still continue to do that myself, until I catch myself!), and Serial to refer to the newer type HDDs.


So, you have SATA and not PATA HDDs--correct?



Not everyone's BIOS will be the same--there are different BIOS makers and different versions from the same vendor--so what I say next has to be considered specific to my system and you have to see if you have similar settings on your system:

My BIOS is by *Award*.  Once I enter the BIOS setup utility, I have a menu choice for *Advanced BIOS Features*.  Once I click on that item, I have a new set of menu items--one being *Hard Disk Boot Priority*--and one has to *Press Enter* to access that item.  Once accessed, all the attached HDDs on the system are shown in a list.  The order of this list can be changed by selecting a HDD and using the arrow keys as indicated in the right side bar area explaining how to change the order.  The top HDD will be looked at first to see if it is bootable--if *yes*, then you will boot from that HDD.  If not, then the next HDD down will be looked at by the BIOS, and so forth until you have either booted, or exhausted the list.

Other menu items below the  *Hard Disk Boot Priority* are the *1st Boot Device*, *2nd Boot Device*, and *3rd Boot Device*--this is where you select whether you boot first from a HDD, floppy drive, CD-ROM drive, flashdrive, etc.


So, do you have a *Hard Drive Boot Priority* option in your BIOS?



If *Yes*, which HDD is listed at the top of the priority list?
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #34 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 2:14am
 
@
Brian

Quote:
I'm glad you are back. It's your turn now.

Gee, thanks  Wink  (but, I don't even use Ghost 12!)!

Quote:
I'd just like to mention a few things that have concerned me. Jordan reinstalled WinXP and it appeared to be a virgin install. However the first Disk Management showed 21.95 GB of used space in the 40 GB partition. That's far too much used space for a fresh WinXP install. Also, Jordan said the 40 GB partition used to be C: drive. So when the image was restored WinXP should have been C: drive again. But it is not.

I agree, there are *issues* to be explored/explained here!  But, first I want understand the basic physical setup, so I can make sense of what's happening!

I think I've got it worked out, but want to verify that physical setup first!
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #35 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 4:57am
 
Quote:
So, do you have a *Hard Drive Boot Priority* option in your BIOS?

Yes, I have a Hard Disk Boot Priority
Quote:
f *Yes*, which HDD is listed at the top of the priority list?

1. Ch2 M.   :ST3500630AS
2. Ch3 M.   :ST3500320AS
3. Bootable Add-in  Cards
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #36 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 9:26am
 
@
leftyx

Quote:
1. Ch2 M.   :ST3500630AS
2. Ch3 M.   :ST3500320AS
3. Bootable Add-in  Cards

That looks very similar to my system's listing--so, I suspect you have an Award BIOS.

If I'm reading those results correctly, you have one HDD hooked up to Channel #2, Master, and the second HDD is hooked up to Channel #3 Master. 

And, the HDD on Channel #2 is at the top of the priority list--so it should boot first--if it's bootable!

Do you know which physical HDD on your system is hooked up to which SATA port?

You might be able to figure it out if you have your motherboard's user guide.  If it shows you the SATA port locations and the designation for which SATA port is which Channel and Master or Slave.

Alternatively, on my system, when booting, at the very beginning of the system being detected and loaded by the BIOS, you get a very brief listing of the HDDs hooked up, and the channel/master-slave designations--do you have this on your system?  If *yes*, then you can, while the system is shut down, pull the SATA communication cable off one of the HDDs.  Now re-boot and look for which HDD is now missing from that listing.

(An aside--if you want to stop the process of the system flashing that information too fast to read and savor the details, you can press *Shift + Pause/Break* buttons at the same time--if your timing is right you will stop the process with your list of all the *ide* channels and what, if anything, is connected to each of them.

It's important to know which physical HDD is which when it comes time to trouble shoot HDD problems--and when you are installing OSs, and using Ghost to transfer images to and from various HDD and partitions, etc.!

Let me know if you have been able to figure out which physical HDD is which.  If it still is not clear, we can continue to see if there are other ways of figuring it out!

The next step, is to determine which physical HDD is the *Backup* labeled HDD with a single partition, and which HDD has the three partitions on it--a 40 GB Primary partition and an Extended partition with two logical partitions inside it.
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #37 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 6:45pm
 
Quote:
Let me know if you have been able to figure out which physical HDD is which.  If it still is not clear, we can continue to see if there are other ways of figuring it out!

I've figured out something. I don't know if it's what we need to know. But here it is. The mainboard manual lists the SATA drives on the board as SATA A1 is front and SATA A0 is back. My hard drives are stacked one on top of the other. The top drive goes to the back SATA and the bottom drive goes to the front SATA. Does that help? Can it make it easier to determine which physical drive is which?
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #38 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 6:59pm
 
@
leftyx

I'm afraid that information does not help.

Are your HDDs listed on the initial boot screen as being attached to a Channel and as Master?

Are you uncomfortable with simply unplugging the SATA communication cable from the back of the SATA HDD when the system is shut down?  It does not cause any harm or changes to the system.  After collecting the information I asked for above--you plug it back in--no harm, no foul!
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #39 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 7:58pm
 
Quote:
Alternatively, on my system, when booting, at the very beginning of the system being detected and loaded by the BIOS, you get a very brief listing of the HDDs hooked up, and the channel/master-slave designations--do you have this on your system?  If *yes*, then you can, while the system is shut down, pull the SATA communication cable off one of the HDDs.  Now re-boot and look for which HDD is now missing from that listing.

(An aside--if you want to stop the process of the system flashing that information too fast to read and savor the details, you can press *Shift + Pause/Break* buttons at the same time--if your timing is right you will stop the process with your list of all the *ide* channels and what, if anything, is connected to each of them.

Here is what I get when I boot up...
IDE   Channel   0   Master   : None
IDE   Channel   0   Slave     : None
SATA 1 (A0)   : ST3500630AS    3.AAK
SATA 2 (A1)   : ST3500320AS    SD15
SATA 3 (B0)   : None
SATA 4 (B1)   :TSSTcorp CDDVDW

After I remove the bottom SATA cable it looks like
SATA (A0)   : ST3500630AS   3.AAK
SATA (A1)   : None
SATA (B0)   : None
SATA (B1)   : TSSTcorp

Also when I continue, it displays a BOOT choice with DVD, Hard drive, removeable. The hard drive is listed as
ST3500630AS  Ch2  M
then when I choose that hard drive the PC boots to WinXP.
But when I remove the other SATA cable it goes into anohter boot sequence and won't boot to the hard drive.

I'm guessing all the information we need is in that description someplace. Did I get it all right this time?
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #40 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 8:52pm
 
@
leftyx

I think we almost have the information needed--you went one step ahead of my next recommended step!

Quote:
Also when I continue, it displays a BOOT choice with DVD, Hard drive, removeable. The hard drive is listed as
ST3500630AS  Ch2  M
then when I choose that hard drive the PC boots to WinXP.


Remove that *bottom SATA cable* again, and boot to WinXP  (that was going to be my next recommended step--see if you can boot to WinXP!).  Go to *Disk Management*.  Post a screen shot of what's there--show the info for the top part of that screen, plus include the HDD info from the bottom part of the Disk Mgmt screen if possible.  I'm looking for the HDD label of *Backup*--I'm hoping that's what we see!
 

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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #41 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 8:59pm
 
Been up since 5:00am. Got to get some sleep. Catch up tomorrow. Thanks. Jordan
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #42 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 5:09am
 
Have to go to work. Will try to work on this some tonight. Thanks again. Jordan
 
 
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #43 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:28am
 
@
leftyx

Quote:
Will try to work on this some tonight

I understand.  But as mentioned earlier, I'm going out of town later this morning and won't be back 'til late Saturday at the soonest.

I will tell you what I think I know--and maybe Brian can help continue the recovery process with you.

I'm pretty sure if you disconnect the *bottom SATA cable* again, and boot to WinXP--in Disk Management you are likely to find that the HDD is labeled *Backup*.  If *yes*, then you now know which HDD is which as far as where your backups are and where your former WinXP OS used to be!  And you know which HDD is which when you disconnect the SATA communication cable.  And which HDD is which in the BIOS.  You should now be able to troubleshoot your current problem!

However, you need to take an honest look at yourself and your computing skills.  You've been doing procedures that could wipe out your system completely--and you do not seem to understand what those procedures are doing, or to what part of your system you are applying those procedures!

You installed a new copy of WinXP!  Not a problem--but, you apparently didn't know that was what you were doing--and you did not understand where the installation was being directed--i.e. which HDD.  I think you will find the *Windows* directory for the new WinXP on your *Backup* HDD--you can use Windows Explorer to see what files are on your *Backup* HDD and if you use the *details* view, you can see the dates when directories were created--the *Windows* subdirectory should have a creation date on the date you installed the *New* WinXP!

But, there should have been plenty of *clues* what was being done, and there should have been additional *clues* where the new WinXP was being installed.  One has to read the various screen information as you proceed and *understand* what's being said!  If you don't!  You should *STOP*!  And then cancel out of the procedure before any harm is done.  And then do what it takes to figure out what's going on before proceeding. 

Randomly proceeding blindly is dangerous computing!

In your reply #21 to Brian about using Ghost to restore your *old* WinXP backup to it's original location on the OS HDD:

Quote:
I finished the process and nothing changed. I believe I did it properly. The only difference I notice is that D: is called "data" and E: is called "data" as well

To clarify, the Disk Management screenshot you put in the *zip* file in reply #23 says you have two *data* partitions on D: and F:--not D: and E:--probably a simple mis-type when reviewing the information.

But, the evidence indicates you chose the wrong *source* file to restore--you chose the *data* backup file and not your *OS* backup file--and you restored it to the *correct* approx. 40 GB destination partition--that's why you now have two partitions labeled *data*!

You can verify that information by doing the following, (I wish Disk Management also listed the amount of data that's present in each partition--but it only lists the amount of *Free Space*--so you have to manually calculate the amount of data that is in the partition--you simply take the *Capacity* and subtract the *Free Space* values and that equals the *Amount of Data* on the partition) calculate the amount of data on each partition using the values in the above Disk Management screen shot in the zip file--that is your system after you performed the Ghost restore:

data (F:):   40.00 -    21.58 = 18.42
data (D:):  165.75 - 147.42 = 18.43

Looking at your Disk Management screenshot before you did the Ghost restore listed in your reply #25:

data (F:):  165.75 - 147.34 = 18.41

So, all those data amounts are essentially *equal*.

Looking at the *unlabeled* OS partition before you did the Ghost restore in the reply #25 screenshot:

unlabeled (D:):  40.00 - 18.05 = 21.95

So, your OS data amount should have been approx. 21.95 GB.

I'm going to post this now, and post a separate reply suggesting how to proceed.
 

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NightOwl
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Re: Problem after hard drive won't boot
Reply #44 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:46am
 
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NightOwl

So, what seems to be the best way to proceed?

Well, we really don't know *why* your system refused to boot--could be a corrupt BIOS on the motherboard, or a corrupt Master Boot Record on the HDD, or perhaps corrupt WinXP boot files, or .....?????--just don't know.

But, what I would try first is the following:

Using Ghost, restore the old WinXP backup file to your approx. 40 GB partition as outlined previously by Brian in reply #20--making sure you select the correct *source* file and correct *destination* partition.  Make sure you make the partition *active* as mentioned in Brian's outline.


(Question for Brian--isn't there an option to restore the MBR when doing a Ghost restore in Ghost 12--if the first attempt using your outline doesn't work--maybe that would be a good second attempt option to try--if it is an option?)


After the Ghost restore, before attempting to boot to WinXP, re-boot the system and enter the BIOS.  Go to the HDD Boot Priority menu item and determine if it is the OS HDD that is listed first--and not the *backup* HDD!  Follow the instructions on how to change the priority if needed (you do know which drive is which now, don't you?!).

Save any BIOS changes.  And now test to see if you can successfully boot to your old WinXP.

Results?
 

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