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Lexus23
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New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Nov 17th, 2011 at 12:17pm
 
Hey All,
Thru this board I became pretty good with my current set up: WinXP-Pro SP3 32bit, installed Ghost 10 program, Ghost 2003 disk (cold image as needed).
Next week I'm moving to a new system with Win7-Pro 64bit so I am going to utilize Ghost 15 which I had but never installed on my old system.
I downloaded the Ghost 15 manual & read thru it with the following questions:
1) The manual implies that the Ghost 15 disk can both boot into the recovery consule AND create a cold image - is this true?   Is the cold image the same as what I could get utilizing the Ghost 2003 disk?  Does the Ghost 2003 disk work on Win7 64bit?
2) I read somewhere that while Ghost 15 is cleared for Win7 64bit, that it still only uses 32bit drivers. Is this correct?  How does that work since Win7 64bit requires 64bit device drivers to function?
3) Unlike the old days of Ghost 10, the Ghost 15 manual strongly encourages users to create their own customized Ghost 15 boot disk and it seems real easy to do. I gather whatever the program is that it automatically detects and then finds the actual drivers on the computer, copies them to a custom file, adds the pertinent Ghost 15 programs and then allows you to burn to a disk. 
Is this all correct?  Could it be that easy?  Does this mean that my custom disk would then have my system's 64bit drivers copied onto it?

My system has no complicated device setups though all hardware is the latest out there, 2 SATA HD's from Western Digital (no RAID), 2 SATA Opticals 24X DVD's from Sony, Graphics card from Nvidia Geforce.

Thanks
 
 
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Brian
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2011 at 2:29pm
 
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Lexus23

You should enjoy using Ghost 15. After the install make sure you run Live Update to get SP1 which is ver 15.0.1.36526. There were problems with the pre SP1 version.

Most people don't need a custom CD. Try the standard CD. If you can see your HDs (and Network if that is of interest) then you don't need a custom CD. One advantage of a custom CD is it contains your serial number so if you ever want to create a cold image (that must be rare) you don't have to type in a serial number.

The CD is based on VistaPE so when using the recovery environment you are using Vista 32-bit drivers from the CD. The recovery environment doesn't care whether your OS is Windows 32 or 64-bit, DOS or Linux. Or even no HDs at all. The recovery environment still works. If the CD doesn't have drivers for your SATA/AHCI controller and you can't see your HDs from the recovery environment you have two choices. Load the drivers manually from a USB flash drive while you are in the recovery environment or create a custom CD. Naturally you have to download 32-bit Vista drivers to do either of these choices. When creating the custom CD, Ghost can't make use of your 64-bit drivers. If you need custom drivers in your CD you have to create a folder on your HD containing Vista 32-bit drivers. These drivers will be used in creating the custom CD.

It is easy. People think it's complicated and get confused.

Edit... If you want to use the Radified Forum and your HD has just failed and has been removed from the computer, you can boot from the Ghost CD, connect to the internet, open Firefox and ask for help. All without a HD.

 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 9:10am
 
Brian, thanks - but
Maybe I'm thinking too deep, but I know you can install a 32bit or 64bit OE and programs on a 64bit hardware system, but I thought you always needed 64bit hardware device drivers to make the system work (ie: dont you need hardware specifically made for 64bits on a 64bit system - or is it only the drivers that differ)?
If the hardware is specific, how can VistaPE 32bit drivers access 64bit hardware at all?

The Ghost manual regarding creating a custom disk does not address 32bit vs 64bit at all - so based on your info, the creation process outlined in the manual would not work at all since all my system would have on it are 64bit drivers - correct?

Now it may be "easy" for you, but I have no idea where to even start obtaining 32bit drivers for my hardware (I do know the makes and models of the hardware). From what little I know, many drivers come in download packages with other related software and self install upon opening.

So "step by step" how would I gather and create a 32bit driver package file?  And specifically what hardware items do I need to get 32bit drivers for?  HD, Optical, USB, Graphics card, Monitor, SATA Controller (does that need motherboard drivers cause my mobo is 64bit also and why would a manufacturer of a 64bit board bother to make 32bit drivers and the mobo drivers come and load as a package for the various items on the board, unaware if there is an item by item driver)????

Finally, what about the cold image capability questions that I asked?

Thanks, I just want to ensure I have everything available for when the time comes because I want to first image my brand new, clean system before adding programs.

PS: I note that Windows 7 has the capability of making backups and "disk images".  Any comments about how this works and whether Ghost is even necessary to have?
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 12:51pm
 
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Lexus23

Lexus23 wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 9:10am:
Maybe I'm thinking too deep


You are. When you are in the Ghost Recovery Environment your OS is Vista 32-bit so whether your OS is 32 or 64-bit is irrelevant. You probably don't need a custom CD as most people find the standard Ghost 15 CD works. I haven't needed a custom CD since Ghost 9. You will have to wait and test it. The only custom drivers I've ever seen needed (at times) were SATA/AHCI when the HDs weren't visible from the Ghost Recovery Environment. Even so, these don't need to be on the CD as they can be loaded from a USB flash drive (extracted so the .inf is available). The userguide doesn't mention this but to load a driver from the Recovery Environment use Utility, Load a Driver. Check with the motherboard manufacturer if the standard CD doesn't see your HDs. I suggest you try the Ghost CD on your current computer and become familiar with the menus. Test the cold imaging too.

I mentioned cold imaging. Yes it is available and it creates a .v2i image. The same file as a hot image.

The Win7 imaging tool is fine for people who haven't been spoiled by dedicated imaging tools. It is primitive.

 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #4 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:18pm
 
Brian, thanks for all the info.  My new system arrives on Thursday of this week.

Since you recommend that I need the Ghost 15 SP1 update to function properly, and I can't go online safely until later to get that update since I wanted to image my brand new system before loading it up with programs (including Norton Internet Security);

So it seems that the best approach is to utilize the "Back Up My Computer" feature on the Symantec Recovery Disk and perform a cold image. That way I don't immediately need the update and I can get a system image even without Ghost 15 being installed - correct?
 
This will also allow me to see if the SRD has the necessary drivers for my system - correct?

If I can get into the SRD and make the cold image, does this positively confirm that the SRD works on my new system?  Or, the manual mentions a "Run Driver Validation" tool also on the SRD.  What is that?  Should it also be run?

Thanks again.
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #5 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 8:14pm
 
@
Lexus23

Lexus23 wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
That way I don't immediately need the update and I can get a system image even without Ghost 15 being installed - correct?


Correct.

Lexus23 wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
This will also allow me to see if the SRD has the necessary drivers for my system - correct?


Correct.

Lexus23 wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
If I can get into the SRD and make the cold image, does this positively confirm that the SRD works on my new system? 


Yes.

Lexus23 wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:18pm:
the manual mentions a "Run Driver Validation" tool also on the SRD.What is that?Should it also be run?


For a 64 bit OS this is probably a waste of time but try it. The tool always finds several drivers missing that are of absolutely no importance. The only thing you want the SRD to be capable of doing is "seeing" the HDs and the network if that is of relevance. Miniport drivers are irrelevant.

If you have plenty of download time you can get the SP1 versions before the new computer arrives. Then you won't have to run Live Update. Just do your install from the file below and forget your current Ghost file.

https://www-secure.symantec.com/norton-support/jsp/help-solutions.jsp?docid=2009
1016094409EN&lg=english&ct=united+states&product=home&version=1&pvid=f-home&ents
rc=redirect_pubweb

This is 1501 (SP1)

https://www-secure.symantec.com/norton-support/jsp/help-solutions.jsp?docid=2009
1019120529EN&lg=english&ct=united+states&product=home&version=1&pvid=f-home&ents
rc=redirect_pubweb

This is also 1501 (SP1)

 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #6 - Dec 14th, 2011 at 11:51am
 
Brian, thanks again for your help.
I downloaded the 2 updates you referenced above. I have used the recovery disk 3 times now to produce "cold images" as I populated my new computer system.
You were correct, the "out of the box" recovery can see and operate all my drives without any additon or modification.

So now I have two new questions:

1) I note that Windows 7 creates a separate partition/volume referred to as System Reserved. Research says this holds Boot Manager code and the Boot Configuration Database.  It also reserves space for the BitLocker Drive Encryption feature.
I back this up as well as my OS drive C:\. 
Ghost backs these up as 2 separate volumes as expected.  So if a computer restore was ever necessary, do both volumes need to be restored or just the OS drive?  In essence, does the System Reserved volume ever change as programs are added or deleted, or changes are made to Windows via updates or options selections?

2) After years of reading the debate regarding cold image vs live image, Ghost 15 provides a very easy to use cold image feature.  So now I am wondering what benefits there are to actually installing Ghost 15 onto my Windows 7 vs simply using the boot disk?  And, are each different image method now both as dependable as the other?

Thanks for the insight. 
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #7 - Dec 14th, 2011 at 2:17pm
 
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Lexus23

As you have Win7 Pro you can't use BitLocker so the SRP is of no use to you other than being a nuisance. I suggest removing it. This frees up a partition slot if you need another primary partition.

The SRP doesn't change so it only has to be imaged once. If you have a HD failure the SRP image and the Win7 image need to be restored to the new HD. The SRP should be set Active. If you have a software problem with Win7 then only the Win7 image needs to be restored (to the same HD). The SRP is OK so it doesn't need to be restored.

I don't do cold images. Hot images are my preference and they are created on a schedule. Rarely manually.
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #8 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:05pm
 
Brian,
I have now made 6 cold image backups of my OS C:\ drive.
I make one after I add a new major program such as Office 2010, HP Print driver package, etc.
I note that the System Reserved Partition (SRP) does increase in size ever so slightly as additional programs are installed.
The first image was of only Windows 7, drivers and control panel type software for the graphics card, sound card, etc.  The SRP shows 11,254KB.
The last image with various programs and drivers installed shows the SRP size at 11,607KB.

So maybe the SRP does need to be restored in conjuction with the C:\ OS restore even if only the OS partition had problems?

Also can you explain if at restoration of the OS C:\ ,the OS C:\ partition is set as active (for booting).
>With restoring the SRP
>Without restoring the SRP

And any other setting selections?

Thanks
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #9 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 2:20pm
 
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Lexus23

Lexus23 wrote on Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:05pm:
I note that the System Reserved Partition (SRP) does increase in size ever so slightly as additional programs are installed.


Interesting. Where are you accessing 11,607KB? Is that the SRP image size?

Lexus23 wrote on Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:05pm:
Also can you explain if at restoration of the OS C:\ ,the OS C:\ partition is set as active (for booting).
>With restoring the SRP
>Without restoring the SRP


The C: drive should never be set Active if you have a SRP. The SRP is the Active partition. If you restore a Win7 image and you set Win7 Active, it won't boot. You will get a BOOTMGR is missing error.

Quote:
Restore to the same HD if a SRP is present

For the SRP

No need to restore

For Win7

Verify recovery point before restore
Partition type : Primary
Check for file system errors after recovery


Quote:
Restore to a new HD if a SRP is present

For the SRP

Verify recovery point before restore
Partition type : Primary
Check for file system errors after recovery
Set drive active (for booting OS)
Restore original disk signature
Restore master boot record

For Win7

Verify recovery point before restore
Resize drive after recover (unallocated space only) (ONLY if you want to)
Partition type : Primary
Check for file system errors after recovery


A tip. Don't restore the SRP and Win7 "together" using the .sv2i if you are restoring to an empty new HD. There is a bug in Ghost that will reverse the partitions on the new HD and Win7 won't boot. Always restore the images individually and you won't have a problem. But I think you are just making it harder for yourself by having a SRP as it has no useful function in Win7 Pro.
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #10 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 5:15pm
 
Regarding the SRP file size - that is what Windows 7 Windows Explorer is showing next to the .v2i file.

Regarding the SRP, that is the way my new computer was set up from the manufacturer (and as I understand the way Windows 7 installs itself).  Since it is already there and apparently the boot partition - how does one go about removing it and still have Windows boot up?

Thanks for all your info  Smiley
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #11 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 7:08pm
 
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Lexus23

You don't get a SRP if you install Win7 into an already created partition. You do get a SRP if you install Win7 into unallocated space.

There are lots of ways to remove a SRP....

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1321767917

... but I suggest you follow the following method. Ignore the sections about BIBM.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

Ask questions if you are concerned. I only have a SRP on one computer and it is just there for testing. Running Win7 without a SRP is a delight.
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2012 at 12:54pm
 
I'm back.  After reviewing the steps to remove the SRP and my skill level if everything went wrong, I am going to live with the SRP at this time.

So based on having a SRP (System Reserved Partition) and my previous comments about the SRP growing in size and your comments about restoring it separately from the C:\ partition, I have some questions.

1. I back up both partitions each time and would think it best to use the last restore image of both if a computer restore was necessary. Your original procedure indicated that unless there was some unusual problem that the SRP wouldn't need to be restored. So should it or not be restored?

2. If both were to be restored, but they should be done in 2 separate restore sessions, how would that be done and which one do I restore first?
I'm thinking if you are in the PE and select to restore the SRP don't you have to exit the PE and boot the computer?  If so, how can this happen if the C:\ partition has not yet been restored?
Step by Step procedure - please.

3. I was in the recovery disk yesterday to make a cold image and I looked through the Recover Computer Wizard and listed computer drives. Drive C is OK, the SRP normally has no drive letter, but it shows as Drive D (based on the size) .  Then there shows a Drive  Boot(X:) 29.2MB of 31.7MB free.  While I have other physical drives with partitions, they are each hugh like 440GB. I have nothing with an X or that small of size. Any idea what this Boot(X:) could be?  It does not appear in the list of drives to back up, why does it appear in the list to restore?

Thanks
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #13 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:09am
 
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Lexus23

I don't have a SRP but my friends who have it only image it once and don't restore it to the same HD if they are restoring a Win7 image for a software issue.

The options for restoring images to the same or to a new HD are in Reply #9

If you are restoring both the SRP and Win7 to a new HD, restore both images in the same session. Restore the one at the start of the HD first.

The X: drive is a RAM drive. Ignore it. It shows in all WinPEs.
 
 
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Re: New to Ghost 15 - Questions
Reply #14 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 9:46am
 
Brian wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 12:09am:
restore both images in the same session

Lexus23 wrote on Jan 21st, 2012 at 12:54pm:
Step by Step procedure - please


I've not done this before - don't you have to reboot after each image restore?  How do you "restore" 2 separate partition images in the same session. I thought the image was restored during the reboot process?   Pls explain.

Thanks again
 
 
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