Radified Community Forums - Partitioning Strategy

zenzone

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Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, MultiBoot
Sep 21^st, 2006 at 11:03am

Greetings,

I am setting up a new computer for general use and audio editing, and am wondering if anyone would mind checking out my proposed partitioning strategy. Since I've never done anything remotely this complicated before, any advice is very welcome...

The machine has two 320 GB HDDs and 4 GB RAM. I want to run two copies of Win XP (one for daily use, one optimized – i.e. decluttered – for audio editing). I also want to run Win 98, to support a legacy slide scanner I have that only runs under that or Win 95. After reading up, I thought I’d make it ready for Linux and future OS’s too.

I’ve read through the disk partitioning strategy article and a forum discussion on this site, other sites (e.g. Goodell for multibooting). My brain is about to explode. Here’s what I’ve come up with:

Disk 1 (320 GB) – OS’s, Executables, and some data.

One active primary partition and several alternate primaries (managed by boot manager), some basic partitions for data.

1 - C: NTFS (Primary, Active), 25 GB, Windows XP -- Every-day Win XP installation.
2 - C: FAT32 (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 4GB, DOS - Emergency Ghost work only.
3 - C: NTFS (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 20 GB, Windows XP -- Audio optimized Win XP installation.
4 - C: FAT32 (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 500 MB, Windows 98 -- OS for legacy slide scanner and possibly free audio software (supported in Win 95/98 only)
5 - C: NTFS (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 6 GB, Win 2K -- Backup OS.
6 - C: EXT3 (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 8 GB - Ready for Linux.
7 - C: NTFS (Alternate Primary, Hidden), 10 GB -- Ready for next-gen OS.
8 - D: FAT32 (Extended/Logical), 100 GB – For MP3s.
9 – E: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 50 GB -- Daily Backups of Disk 2 Data to be burned to CD/DVD occasionally
10 – F: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 60 GB -- Ghost Images of Disk 2 partitions to be burned to DVD regularly.
11 – G: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 10 GB -- Sitting Empty.
12 – H: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 26 GB – Remaining space, sitting empty

Disk 2 (320 GB) – Data

Only extended/logical partitions on this disk, to avoid problems relating to the automatic re-assignment of drive letters.

1 - M: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 2GB - Windows swap/page file (Win98 & Win XP)
2 - N: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 5GB - Recent, Temp & Temporary Internet Files (Win XP)
2 – O: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 30GB – ‘My Documents’, etc. for everyday Windows XP Installation and Audio Optimized Windows XP installation.
3 – P: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 80 GB -- Lossless DAT Audio data (raw captures)
4 – Q: FAT32 (Extended/Logical), 22 GB -- Lossless DAT Audio data (raw, for use with Win 98)
5 – P: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 44 GB – Edited audio.
6 – R: FAT32 (Extended/Logical), 20 GB -- Digital Imaging (JPG scans) data (produced by Win 98)
7 – S: NTFS (Extended/Logical), 40 GB -- Downloads, drivers, etc.
8 – T: FAT32 (Extended/Logical), 60 GB – Ghost images of Disk 1 OS’s to be burned to CD/DVD regularly.
9 – U: EXT3 (Extended/Logical) 1 GB -- Linux swap partition (future use)
10 – W: NTFS (Extended/Logical) 16 GB, Daily backups of Disk 1 data (associated with stubborn/new programs)

I have a couple of questions…

1. I question the need for a DOS partition, since DOS can only read FAT32 partitions, and that won’t help me much for the others…

2. With 4 GB RAM, how big should I make the swap file partition (and file). Sorry for this tedious question, but I’ve read all the recommended articles, and they’ve left me more confused than ever.

3. If I want to ensure the CD/DVD drive is always a particular letter, say D:, can I do that with all this hidden/inactive partitioning business?

4. How much space to most people allocate for their Ghost images? Is my proposed 60 GB too much for this setup?

5. Plan to use fdisk, Partition Magic and Ghost, but haven’t narrowed down the choice for boot manager. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for any advice you might have to offer this newcomer.

zenzone

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Brian

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #1 - Sep 21^st, 2006 at 12:52pm

zenzone,

I'll answer a few questions to get this started. Recently I setup a test computer with 8 copies of WinXP installed using advice from

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/index.htm

I used BING as a boot manager

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

With version 1.77 you don't have to do the following page at all.

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/ptedit.htm

BING makes the adjustments to the hidden sectors for you. I used ver 1.76 on the first occasion and made the adjustments but later found that ver 1.77 would do this.

In retrospect it was easy. Any WinXP could be booted and the other 7 were hidden. I did the whole project in less than two hours (I already had an image).

I have 2 GB of RAM and I use a page file of 400 MB, maximum 1000 MB, on the C drive. I've never used more than 200 MB of the page file and mostly it's around 15 MB used.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm

The CD-ROM will retain whichever drive letter it is assigned.

60 GB of space for your images is not too much. More space, more images.

I'd like to ask a question. I haven't used fdisk for a few years but I notice others do. What am I missing out on?

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zenzone

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #2 - Sep 21^st, 2006 at 5:12pm

Thanks Brian. Great references and excellent advice.

I'm going to look into BING. At first glance, my only concern would be if you get 'tied in' to it, or if it makes disk imaging or working with partitions complicated.

Did you use it for formatting and setting up the partitions too? Do you know if you can format and partition using other software, and just install BING for as the boot manager?

On another topic, I just received some advice that leads me to believe I ought to create a partition for temporary audio files that the audio editing software might create. Otherwise, you can run up against a full partition -- if your audio data and editing software's temp dirs are on the same partition -- in the middle of editing and lose some work. I mention this here to keep the info in one place. So I'll add another partition or two to my setup, for the temp files created by the audio software. Also, this will avoid fragmenting the 'stable' audio data area.

cheers!

zenzone

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Brian

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #3 - Sep 21^st, 2006 at 5:43pm

zenzone wrote on Sep 21^st, 2006 at 5:12pm:

I'm going to look into BING. At first glance, my only concern would be if you get 'tied in' to it, or if it makes disk imaging or working with partitions complicated.

Did you use it for formatting and setting up the partitions too? Do you know if you can format and partition using other software, and just install BING for as the boot manager?

That worried me too. I didn’t warm to the unlimited primary partition idea and I just used it as a boot manager. If you want to get rid of it then it’s just a 5 second uninstall but you then need to find another way to boot your OS that are installed in logical partitions. Dan mentions XOSL but I couldn’t get it working. BING is easy and has lots of good features which you may or may not use. It can create and restore images, partition and format but strangely it can’t format a NTFS partition. It can edit boot.ini and I used this for all 8 WinXP partitions. I didn’t use the partitioning functions. I used Partition Magic as it’s more familiar to me.

If you want to go ahead I’ll outline how I installed BING and setup the hidden partition aspect. You really only need BING if you want to install more than 3 operating systems on your first HD.

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Rad

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	Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi Reply #4 - Sep 21^st, 2006 at 7:31pm Interesting thread. I like this kind of stuff.
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zenzone

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #5 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 8:54am

Brian wrote on Sep 21^st, 2006 at 5:43pm:

If you want to go ahead I’ll outline how I installed BING and setup the hidden partition aspect.

Yes, thanks. That'd be appreciated. I've got to get moving on this stuff, since my main machine crashed irrecoverably last week (HD failure), and it's time to build the new one. It was time anyway.

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Pleonasm

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #6 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 11:05am

Brian, concerning Reply #1 with your PC containing eight copies of Windows XP, are you able to – for example – create a Ghost 10 recovery point of C: (containing Windows XP installation #1), restore it to D: (overwriting Windows XP installation #2), and then boot the PC using D: so as to effectively roll-back the PC to a prior state in time?

Does the issue of Windows XP ‘remembering’ drive letters still cause difficulties in this scenario – or, does BootIt NG allow you to circumvent this problem?

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”

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Brian

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #7 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 5:41pm

Pleonasm wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 11:05am:

Does the issue of Windows XP ‘remembering’ drive letters still cause difficulties in this scenario – or, does BootIt NG allow you to circumvent this problem?

I followed Dan's instructions and there were no drive letter problems. Each WinXP booted as C: drive and the other 7 OS were hidden. BING does this.

I had a single WinXP image and I restored it to the 8 partitions that were to be the 8 OS. So all OS were identical. To answer your first question, I didn't try it but I'm sure the answer is "yes". I deleted all partitions a few hours after I was convinced everything was in order.

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Brian

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	Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi Reply #8 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 5:45pm Does anyone else think that zenzone is planning to use too many logical partitions?
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Rad

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #9 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 7:43pm

Not me .. but partitioning is a personal thing.

Two 320-gig drives leaves lots of room for various partitions.

Long as he can keep track (tract?) of them, I see no problem.

I would like to know how he likes his arangement 6 months into his endeavor.

I've never regretted having too *many* partitions, but *have* regretted having too few.

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	Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi Reply #10 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 8:10pm Rad wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 7:43pm: Not me .. but partitioning is a personal thing. OK. I'll keep quiet.
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Brian

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #11 - Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 11:54pm

Using BING as a boot manager.

I tried this six months ago, became totally confused and gave up. This time it just fell into place so I made some notes as I knew next time wouldn’t be so easy. There are some confusing aspects in the userguide. For example, the Boot Menu on page 15 is not the Boot Menu that is used to choose the next OS. Also the Direct Boot Menu isn’t worth using as it doesn’t hide any of the OS.

Let’s continue from when you are up to Installing the Boot Manager in Dan’s site. All partitions are in place on both HDs and you haven’t booted into Windows at all. Boot to the Partition Magic CD or floppies and make sure that the first OS is Active and all other OS partitions are Hidden on each HD. On the second HD you will have multiple Logical Volumes. In front of the Extended Partition there is 7.8 MB of Unallocated Space. Right Click in the space and turn this into a Primary FAT partition with a status of None. Label it BING. Exit from PM.

Boot to the BING disc.
Click OK to install
Click NO because you don’t want more than 4 primary partitions
Click NO to allow manual setup
OK
Click Create EMBR for HD 0
YES to continue
Select HD 1 (dot)
Click Create EMBR for HD 1
YES to continue
Stay on HD 1 and highlight the BING partition
Click Setup
OK
OK
Close the News window
Remove the BING disc, OK to restart

On the Boot Menu, click Maintenance
Click Partition Work
Select HD 0 (dot)
Highlight MBR Entry 0
Click Properties
Give it a name
Click Edit File if it’s a WinXP / Win2000 OS
Select boot.ini and click OK
Edit if needed and click OK, OK
Highlight MBR Entry 1 and do the same as above
Highlight MBR Entry 2 and do the same as above
MBR Entry 3 is the Extended Partition and there will be many “unnamed” entries below. These are the Logical Volumes
Highlight the first “unnamed” entry and do the same as above
Highlight the second “unnamed” entry etc
etc
Click Close (the Work with partitions window)

Click Boot Edit
Select your first OS and click Edit
In the Identify field, give it the same name you chose recently
In the MBR Details pane, select and click Hide for the other two OS in primary partitions. Select and click Hide for the BING partition. Select MBR Entry 3 and click Volumes. Select Hide for each OS partition but not for the data partitions. OK
OK
Do the same for the next two OS
Select your fourth OS and click Edit
In the Identify field, give it the same name you chose recently
In the MBR Details pane, select and click Hide for all three OS in primary partitions. Select and click Hide for the BING partition. Select MBR Entry 3 and click Volumes. Select Hide for each OS partition except your present one. Don’t hide the data partitions. OK
OK
Do the same for the remaining OS
When you are finished click OK on the Boot Menu- Default.MNU
Click Reboot
Now you will see the real Boot Menu

Any comments?

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Rad

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	Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi Reply #12 - Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 12:07am Quote: OK. I'll keep quiet. Your comments are still valuable. There is safety in a multitude of counsellors. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2011:14;&version=9;
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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #13 - Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 1:32am

Brian

Quote:

Does anyone else think that zenzone is planning to use too many logical partitions?

I'll step up to the plate--my opinion--way too many partitions. Could interfere with future addition of USB card readers or digital camera, etc., and booting from Windows PE boot CD's that may require reserved drive letters!

I'm actually running *too many* partitions on my system--the next time I start over--it will be fewer--unless the partition serves a function (i.e. swap file partition on a second HDD to keep the swap file off the OS HDD to reduce fragmentation--and increase responsiveness if you need heavy swap file access like *fast user switching* if you have that enabled), I am finding more and more, it's easier to have a sub-directory to organize things.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink

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zenzone

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Re: Partitioning Strategy – Audio Optimized, Multi
Reply #14 - Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 8:54am

Brian wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2006 at 5:45pm:

Does anyone else think that zenzone is planning to use too many logical partitions?

I'm of two minds about it myself. I've always run with one OS, one partition on the OS disk, and one partition only on the 'data' disk (docs, downloads, etc). But the data disk on my last machine was 80 GB, and defragging took so long it was a bore. Also, I like to 'wipe' the disk once in a while for security purposes. That was impossibly slow on an 80 GB drive that was a single partition. Definitely would like to avoid that this time, if possible.

It could be I'm going overboard with this plan (it's got that feel to it), but I can see the advantages of separate partitions for fast-changing (swap), medium-changing (audio that's being captured then edited) and relatively unchanging data (docs, finished pieces), in addition to the basic requirements of different partititions for each OS, and for the swap file on a different disk.

1. Mainly, is the fast- medium- and slow-data partitioning idea whacko? I mean, I'm not running a corporation here, just a home PC. But it interests me to do it somewhere in the realm of correctness.

2. It would be easy enough to drop the DOS and Win 2K partitions, for example. With two Win XPs, I probably don't need the backup OS (Win 2K), and I already mentioned the DOS issue. (To recap: DOS was proposed for emergency work, but NTFS partitions wouldn't be available to it anyway. And as mentioned elsewhere on this site, with emergency CDs and disk images of the other OS's, probably DOS partition is unnecessary.)

3. Getting rid of the legacy slide scanner would further reduce the number of partitions on both disks (drop the Win 98 partition on the OS disk, and one FAT32 partition on the data disk). I could just put that on another machine and network it. Probably easier in the long run, 'cause it's fiddly. Note that no slide scanner means I'd drop the idea of using free audio editing software (supported in Win 98 only). That gets rid of all the FAT32 partitions. Not as much fun, but simplifies life and the partitioning plan.

I am open-minded to all suggestions, and I'm not opposed to simplifying. Thanks for the great comments so far; and to Brian for the detailed procedure.

-- zen

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