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Rad Community Technical Discussion Boards (Computer Hardware + PC Software) >> Norton Ghost 2003,  Ghost v8.x + Ghost Solution Suite (GSS) Discussion Board >> Ghost for Win 7
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Message started by roxe on Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:12pm

Title: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:12pm
hi y'all... I'm back!!!  God is good! Am doing much better!

would like to know the earliest version of Ghost that can image both to and from for Win7 installed in only one partition ??

I think I tried using my 2003, but can't remember the results... I think it allowed me to make an image, but couldn't get it to reimage to a partition... could be wrong...

thanks!

roxe

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:16pm
Hi Rad, Christer, NightOwl, El_Pescador!!!!
so glad you are still here!!  ;D

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Christer on Sep 18th, 2013 at 2:01am
Hi roxe,
welcome back ... :) ... !

There's a long thread on how to use Ghost 2003 with Windows 7. I have used it from a floppy, not the installed version, successfully since 2010. I don't have the time right now to find it, you'll have to do a search.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:32am
@ roxe


Quote:
hi y'all... I'm back!!!

Hey--I remember you!  It's been awhile....but, always glad to welcome a member back to talk about Ghost, imaging, computing, etc..


Quote:
God is good! Am doing much better!

Hmmm...that seems to be a *loaded* statement--dare I ask?  Or, just leave it as is?


Quote:
would like to know the earliest version of Ghost that can image both to and from for Win7 installed in only one partition ??

It always makes me smile how a poster on a forum can condense a *simple* question down to such a short one line statement--but, the response could produce *reams* of replies and other questions!  ;)

So here the questions come!

*the earliest version of Ghost*  You mention Ghost 2003--does your question want to know if Ghost 2002, or Ghost 2001 can be used with Win7?  Or, are we going the other direction--Ghost 14, or Ghost 15?


Quote:
that can image both to and from for Win7

I forget, were (are) you using Ghost 2003 from bootable media that you boot to DOS, and perform your imaging from there?  Or, are you installing the Windows Ghost 2003 interface, and doing your imaging by setting up the procedure within Windows, and allowing Ghost to close down Windows, perform the imaging, and then re-boot to Windows?


Quote:
for Win7 installed in only one partition

So, have you taken the *special* steps to prevent Win7 from doing its default installation that creates the special boot partition (the SRP) in addition to the OS partition.

And, if you wish to use Ghost 2003 without using special settings, one needs to *generalize* the boot files so the boot process does not look for a specific HDD ID number, but instead just looks for the boot *device*.  Ghost 2003 will erase the HDD ID number by default, and that will prevent Win7 from booting without doing a *boot repair* to fix that problem (by using the Win7 installation CD to do the repair).  Or, you can use special Ghost switches to prevent Ghost 2003 from erasing the HDD ID number when restoring an image.


Christer wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 2:01am:
There's a long thread on how to use Ghost 2003 with Windows 7.

There have been a number of different threads--I suspect this is the one Christer is referring to:

Ghost 2003 strategy for Windows 7

To help with searching, here are some other links that might offer additional help and reading to further your quest:

Windows 7 and SRP    

Ghost + Windows 7 Questions!     (Dan Goodell's explains why SRP exists!)  Quoting:  "The rub is that BitLocker is only available in the Ultimate and Enterprise versions of Windows 7.  So for 99% of us, BitLocker isn't an option--and thus isn't a legitimate excuse to saddle us with a System Reserved partition.")

Ghost + Windows 7 Questions!       (Brian explains how to remove SRP--apparently have to use Vista or Part PE, Bing, and Win7 installation CD do make boot repairs!)

Ghost + Windows 7 Questions!--Reply #42   (Brian outlines how to remove SRP (or Dell's Recovery Partition)--using only BING--Not Win7 installation CD)

Ghost + Windows 7 Questions!--Reply #49
(Brian re-states the outline for removing the SRP (or Dell's Recovery Partition)--Using only BING!)


Win7--Installing without 100 MB Partition from Win7 Installation CD:

How to Prevent Windows 7 from Creating a Hidden /Recovery /System Reserved Partition during Installation

Hack to Remove 100 MB System Reserved Partition When Installing Windows 7

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 18th, 2013 at 4:27pm
Thanks Christer!! :)

Oh, NightOwl... I just knew you would write me a book... LOLOL... you are so sweet!

I'm using 2003 on a CD that I burned from a floppy...

The only thing I added to the floppy was putting the mouse driver on it since I never could get the drop-down menu to work  ::)

so what are you talking about  the hdd id number???

is there something else I need to do to the files and then reburn it to a CD??? if so, what??

As for the "am doing much better"... situation-wise and health-wise... that's all.... Praise God!!

Good to see this place hasn't burned down... good to be back  ;D

joyb2u,
roxe

how I did my CD...
made the floppy using 2003.793 (with added mouse driver etc)...  copied all floppy files to hdd... used Nero to burn those files to CD... and it works!!

how I'd like to modify the current CD...
copy files to hdd... modify for "device" instead of "hdd id number"... burn with Nero back to new CD...

possible????  eh???

if so, I need the "dummy" step by step to do this...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 19th, 2013 at 10:25am
@ roxe


Quote:
so what are you talking about  the hdd id number???

Short answer:  http://pcsupport.about.com/od/termsd/g/disk-signature.htm

Longer answer (scroll down to the *Disk identity* section):  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record


Quote:
is there something else I need to do to the files and then reburn it to a CD??? if so, what??

Well, are you starting Ghost manually from the A:\ prompt after booting to DOS?  Do you simply type *ghost.exe* to start Ghost?  If *Yes* and *Yes*, then you just add a Ghost *switch* to that command line that you are typing to start Ghost.  So type:


Code:
ghost.exe /fdsp

or

ghost.exe -fdsp


There's a space after *ghost.exe*, and you can use either */* or *-* to indicate to the Ghost command line that what follows is a *switch*.

The *-fdsp*--I don't know for sure what the *f* stands for, but the *dsp* stands for *disk signature preserve*.  Probably do not have to use that switch when creating the image file, but definitely need it when doing a restore of an image file (if using Ghost 2003 with Win7 that requires use of the -fdsp switch, I would probably use it every time I start Ghost just to be sure)--Ghost 2003's default behavior is to erase the disk signature when restoring a *whole disk* image to a HDD (the disk signature is not erased if you are just restoring a partition to the disk).  The Ghost people added that as a safety measure so folks could not clone a system disk (disk to disk, or image to disk) on a system where both HDDs would still be connected upon next re-boot to Windows.  Because Windows now *remembers* drive letter assignments in the registry which persists from one boot to the next, if two HDDs are on the system that have *identical* disk signatures--basically all hell breaks loose, and it's any body's guess what drive letters are assigned to what HDD--actually probably depends on which drive is seen as the first physical HDD.  But the results are not pretty.  Most people can not recover unless they have a current image file so they can restore that to the main HDD, and start over.


Quote:
how I'd like to modify the current CD...
copy files to hdd... modify for "device" instead of "hdd id number"... burn with Nero back to new CD...



NightOwl wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:32am:
So, have you taken the *special* steps to prevent Win7 from doing its default installation that creates the special boot partition (the SRP) in addition to the OS partition.

And, if you wish to use Ghost 2003 without using special settings (switches), one needs to *generalize* the boot files so the boot process does not look for a specific HDD ID number, but instead just looks for the boot *device*.

Are we talking about an existing Win7 installation?  Does it have the special boot partition, the SRP (System Reserve Partition)?

The files that need to be modified are the Win7 boot files--not any of the Ghost 2003 files.  Once you *generalize* the Win7 boot files, then you would no longer have to worry about using the *-fdsp* switch.

If the SRP exists, then the whole system is dependent on the SRP for booting properly--so Ghost imaging requires that both the SRP and the OS partition be backed up in case of HDD failure.  And both have to be restored for successful booting.

In my previous post, there are references as to how to install Win7 so as to avoid having an SRP created.  Or, you can remove the SRP and modify the Win7 installation so all the boot files are placed in the Win7 OS partition.  This make creating and restoring Ghost 2003 image files easier--you no longer have to worry about backing up and restoring both the SRP and the OS partitions.  It's now like using Ghost 2003 on a WinXP system!


Quote:
if so, I need the "dummy" step by step to do this...

We can get into the details once we know what your starting point is. 

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 19th, 2013 at 11:46am
NightOwl...

My W7Pro is already installed on ONE partition - on an extra hdd for my toshiba satellite laptop - and the drivers have been updated.
(done before starting this thread)

My CD starts the ghost program automatically... all I have to do is click yes/no on the first screen... and then I'm in...

So, where are the W7Pro boot files... and then... how do I "generalize" it / them???  (step by step, please)

BTW, thanks SO MUCH for giving me all the reading assignments... increases my knowledge base so I can use the proper words in proper sequences... and understand the words I read... and don't come across as a total dummy and/or stupid  ;D

joyb2u,
roxe

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Christer on Sep 19th, 2013 at 4:10pm

Quote:
The *-fdsp*--I don't know for sure what the *f* stands for, but the *dsp* stands for *disk signature preserve*.


force disk signature preserve

Most of the switches and their respective function are listed in Switches: Alphabetical list of switches

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 20th, 2013 at 9:21am
@ Christer

Thanks for that new updated link!  I have old links to that list, but Symantec has pulled the plug on several of their old servers, and some of those old links are now *dead*!

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 20th, 2013 at 9:36am
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 11:46am:
My W7Pro is already installed on ONE partition - on an extra hdd for my toshiba satellite laptop - and the drivers have been updated.
(done before starting this thread)

So, you have to swap out HDDs in order to boot to Win7 on your laptop?

Where do you save Ghost image files when doing a Ghost image creation?

So, I'm assuming your *extra hdd* was already partitioned before you installed Win7, and you chose to install it in that existing partition--is that accurate?

Just to confirm--have you gone to *Disk Management* for the Win7 system, and there is only one partition (drive) listed in Disk Management, and/or if you have booted to DOS and started Ghost, the Win7 HDD shows only one partition in the Ghost interface if you select to create an image using partition to image?

I'm trying to pin that information down *for sure*--because some of the instructions for *generalizing* the Win7 boot file depends on the answers.

I have several projects that I have to work on for the next couple days--so I may be slow to post the steps you need to do, but they are coming.......



Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Christer on Sep 20th, 2013 at 1:39pm

Quote:
Thanks for that new updated link!  I have old links to that list, but Symantec has pulled the plug on several of their old servers, and some of those old links are now *dead*!

Yup, my old link too was muerto but I found the "new" one, which I doubt is "new" but as you indicate, the same target on a different server.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm

Quote:
So, you have to swap out HDDs in order to boot to Win7 on your laptop?

Yes, I have 4 -  2.5" hdds... one for the internet with xp pro; one for doing audio and video with xp pro; one for w7pro; last one for my ghost images from the first three.

Quote:
Where do you save Ghost image files when doing a Ghost image creation?

see answer #1... last line. I use a little sata usb adapter to hook it up to my laptop... have no problems with imaging to or from with it... so far :)

Quote:
So, I'm assuming your *extra hdd* was already partitioned before you installed Win7, and you chose to install it in that existing partition--is that accurate?

yes, I partitioned the entire drive into two partitions... one primary and one extended/logical... so the entire drive was partitioned and formatted before installing w7pro into the primary active partition.

Quote:
Just to confirm--have you gone to *Disk Management* for the Win7 system, and there is only one partition (drive) listed in Disk Management, and/or if you have booted to DOS and started Ghost, the Win7 HDD shows only one partition in the Ghost interface if you select to create an image using partition to image?

didn't need to... after installing w7pro, I just booted into the system... w7pro is on the primary drive, and the extended/logical is empty.

Quote:
I'm trying to pin that information down *for sure*--because some of the instructions for *generalizing* the Win7 boot file depends on the answers.

that's OK... better safe than sorry...


Quote:
I have several projects that I have to work on for the next couple days--so I may be slow to post the steps you need to do, but they are coming.......

It's been a week since installing... patience is a virtue... I'm pretty sure I can wait for your info :)

---------------------------------------------------
BTW....
Since burning the ghost floppy files onto CD, I have been able to image both to and from with many different configurations... partitions being larger than, smaller than, on a logical drive, on a 2.5 to 3.5 and 3.5 to 2.5, SSD to SATA and back, SATA to IDE and back. It doesn't seem to matter what I try, it takes it and works (except for w7pro)! All the target drives are in the machine and the sources are connected by USB cable.

Maybe I'm just lucky...

Right from the start I have always partitioned my drives before installing the OSs... except for W7... the first time I let it do it's own thing... didn't like what I saw - found out it could be installed into one partition and from then on, have put it into one.

I probably should put all my OSs onto one drive... but haven't found a boot program -  or manually -  that would boot them the way I want them booted... which is -- whichever OS I choose would be the ONLY OS showing when it's booted... none of the other OSs would show being on the rest of the drive. I would have one logical drive to put all the docs and stuff taken from the OS drives (like the bookmarks etc for Firefox) and when each OS is booted only that primary partition and the logical would show up.

And want to use images to put the 3 OSs on the drive...

I'd like to have two of XPpro and one of w7pro... and one logical for "stuff" from all 3 OSs...
that way, I could just hook up a hdd by USB for all the docs, video, audio, etc and wouldn't need to swap out drives.

Is there a way to *manually* do something like that?
(step by step)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:46pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm:
I probably should put all my OSs onto one drive... but haven't found a boot program that would boot them the way I want them booted... which is -- whichever OS I choose would be the ONLY OS showing when it's booted... none of the other OSs would show being on the rest of the drive. I would have one logical drive to put all the docs and stuff taken from the OS drives (like the bookmarks etc for Firefox) and when each OS is booted only that primary partition and the logical would show up.


BootIt Bare Metal.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-bare-metal.htm

That's how my SSD is setup. Ten OS, each in primary partitions and each OS only sees itself and the common data partition. Yes, you can have more than four primary partitions on a drive.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 20th, 2013 at 5:15pm
Brian,

Thanks for the link... I saw that yesterday but don't want to spend $$ to modify boot files if I don't have to...
I'd really like to learn the hands-on method...

thanks again :)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 20th, 2013 at 8:59pm
@ roxe

That's the beauty of BIBM. You don't need to modify your OS partitions. You could simply copy each OS, in turn, to the new larger drive. Each would be an independent OS. You wouldn't have to edit boot.ini for WinXP and you wouldn't have to modify the boot files in Win7.

The BIBM partition is a small 8 MB FAT type partition that can be anywhere on the drive.

I hate to say this but BIBM contains Image for DOS which leaves Ghost 2003 for dead.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 21st, 2013 at 9:41am
@ Brian


Quote:
I hate to say this but BIBM contains Image for DOS which leaves Ghost 2003 for dead.

Well, actually Ghost *is dead*:  http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1369841244


Quote:
That's the beauty of BIBM. You don't need to modify your OS partitions. You could simply copy each OS, in turn, to the new larger drive. Each would be an independent OS. You wouldn't have to edit boot.ini for WinXP and you wouldn't have to modify the boot files in Win7.

Don't you still have to *generalize* the Win7 boot file if you plan on using Ghost 2003 without the -fdsp switch?  One doesn't have to use the -fdsp switch as long as all restores are partition from image restores to the original HDD--Ghost 2003 will not zero the disk signature.  But, if you ever use your Win7 OS partition image to do a restore to a *whole disk*--i.e. partition to disk restore, then Ghost 2003 will zero the disk signature unless one uses the -fdsp switch.

I think you would also run into trouble if your Win7 is on one HDD, and you want to use an image of that OS to transfer the OS to a *new* HDD that you are setting up to have multiple OSs--the new HDD would have a new disk signature compared to the old HDD that the Win7 was originally installed on--wouldn't a *generalized* boot file be necessary here as well--to avoid doing a *repair*? 

And, if you do whole disk image backups, and do whole disk image restores (i.e. including all the OS partitions, hidden and otherwise), then Ghost 2003 would again zero the disk signature if the -fdsp switch is not being used--so I'm assuming that Win7 would fail to boot unless the boot file was *generalized*.

Is this not true when using Ghost 2003 even when using BIBM as a boot manager?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 21st, 2013 at 9:54am
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 5:15pm:
but don't want to spend $$ to modify boot files if I don't have to...
I'd really like to learn the hands-on method...

Well, if you have 10 OSs on one HDD, then as Brian has stated--BIBM is probably the *only* way to go!

If you only have 3 OSs that you want to use, the *std* boot setup allows for 4 possible primaries--you could use 3 for your OSs, and use *free* software to hide and un-hide the various OSs for use while the others are hidden from the *active* OS.  And that 4th primary could be set up as an extended partition--and it can hold 1, or more partitions for data storage that each of the OSs would have access to.

That's a different *topic* that we can pursue if you're interested.  But let's finish this topic first!  I'm off to work this morning, so I'll be back later to answer the other questions and comments that are hanging from previous posts.

By the way, what size(s) are your 4 HDDs?




Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 12:54pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 9:41am:
Don't you still have to *generalize* the Win7 boot file if you plan on using Ghost 2003 without the -fdsp switch?


I think you are correct. If you have BIBM I wouldn't bother with "generalization" as it's a 30 second job to get Win7 booting on a new HD by using a BIBM BCD Edit. Restoring a Win7 Ghost image to the same partition on the same HD is a non issue. Easy.

I know Roxe isn't using a SSD but I don't think using Ghost would be a good option in view of the need for 2048 sector aligned partitions. With HDs, the alignment issue doesn't really matter.

If you were using BIBM with Unlimited Primaries you wouldn't be able to do a Whole Disk image with Ghost as some partitions would not be in the Partition Table. It could be done with Limited Primaries. But then again, with the IFD component of BIBM, Entire Drive images could be done with Unlimited Primaries as IFD can see partitions that aren't in the Partition Table.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 9:27pm

@ NightOwl...


Quote:
By the way, what size(s) are your 4 HDDs?


120gb = 111.79gb actual

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:01pm

@ Brian...


Quote:
That's how my SSD is setup. Ten OS, each in primary partitions and each OS only sees itself and the common data partition.


So no "freebie" is needed to hide each OS from the others?

Plus... I can image w7pro using ghost 2003 and be able to reimage it to a partition and get it working with BIBM?

Down the road...
can BIBM be removed from the drive without damaging the 3 OSs, so they can be update-imaged individually with G2003 as changes take place... (since each one of the partitions show up as separate in ghost)...  and then replace BIBM and keep using the drive??

(wanna learn what BIBM can/can't do before biting my wallet...) :)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:26pm

question:  how do I do the "red" @ sign??

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:48pm
@ roxe

BIBM is my favourite app and is installed in all of my computers. I use unlimited partitions but I don't expect you to use them. It took me 6 months before I was confident enough to leave limited primaries behind. So I'll discuss limited primaries.

Dan Goodell likes XOSL as a free boot manager. I have some good instructions if you would like to try it but I think BIBM is easier to setup and is well worth the money.

Yes, if you are limiting primaries you can just uninstall BIBM. The 8 MB partition is removed. If you are using unlimited primaries you have to reduce your primary partition count to 4 before BIBM can be uninstalled. BIBM doesn't write anything to the partitions so after uninstalling BIBM the partitions are unchanged.

You have 3 HDs with 3 OS. On your new big HD you would have 2 OS in Primary partitions, 1 OS in the extended partition along with a data partition. And the BIBM partition. You could have dozens of OS in the extended partition if you like.

When booted into Windows you will have a C: drive letter for the relevant OS and a drive letter for the data partition. All other partitions will be hidden.

Using Ghost 2003 from a boot disk you will have access to all partitions. BIBM included. You don't need to uninstall BIBM to use Ghost.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-bare-metal.htm

BIBM will do a thousand more things which aren't relevant to this discussion.

As mentioned earlier, you don't have to install OS on the new HD. Just copy the current OS to the new HD. You could use BIBM for this as it is a two click copy process. Or you could restore Ghost images.





Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:55pm

roxe wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:26pm:
question:  how do I do the "red" @ sign??


Click the down arrow to the left of a member's name.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:57pm
@Brian...

Can I use 3 primary partitions and one extended?

#1 XP pro sp3
#2 XP pro sp3
#3 w7pro sp1
#4 extended logical-docs, logical-BIBM

is that the way?

You stated only two primaries... why?


Does the BIBM partition take one of the primaries or go into a logical by itself??


----------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Click the down arrow to the left of a member's name.


OK... I remember now!!!! :) :)     THX !

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:05pm

roxe wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:57pm:
Does the BIBM partition take one of the primaries or go into a logical by itself??


BIBM needs a primary partition. There is no problem with copying one of your OS into a logical volume in the extended partition. Let's say you would have one WinXP and one data partition in the extended partition.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:10pm
@ Brian

OK... sounding better and better...

are you willing to give me a step by step of how to do what I want with one hdd holding 2 OSs and BIBM in primary partitions... and one OS and docs in the extended logicals???

I want to partition my drive before doing this... so how does the partitioning go for this??

This way I can see how this happens and then decide to bite my wallet :)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:17pm
@ roxe

Standby.

So your computer is a laptop? Do you have a USB caddy to hold the current HDs for the copy process to the new HD or would you rather restore images?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:22pm
@ Brian


I'd rather restore images at first till I get used to this program and what all it can do...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:24pm
OK. Do you have a spare HD so we could install BIBM and run some tests? BIBM has a free trial for 30 days so you only have to buy it if it works.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:31pm
Download the trial from here....

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-bootit-bare-metal.htm

Now make a boot CD...

Unzip
double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in BootIt Bare Metal, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
select Image for DOS (GUI), next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Video Mode 1024*768 - 64K Colors, next
dot in Normal, next
don't choose any Device Options, next
tick in Enable USB 1.1 (UHCI), next
tick in Align partitions on Cylinders, next
ignore Additional bootitbm.ini Options, next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:36pm
You can use the CD without installing BIBM. Use it with any of your HDs...

Boot from the BIBM CD and click Cancel
Click OK to enter Maintenance Mode

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 21st, 2013 at 11:47pm
OK... will do tomorrow  -  Sunday...
it's already past my bedtime here...

I'll copy all instructions and try it tomorrow... and let you know how it goes... then when you come back online we can go from there...

thanks for all your patience and help :)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:21am
We can do the entire setup with the trial BIBM as it is fully functional. After 30 days you start to get Warnings. Activating with a registered CD is all you need to do to become registered. One click and you are registered. No further setup.

If you don't like it, uninstall and don't buy it.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 4:00am
When you are ready, can you let me know the size of each of the three OS partitions and the amount of Free Space in each partition? Also the size of your intended Data partition.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:13am
@ roxe and @ Brian

I am calling an *Admin* audible--this topic has changed from *Ghost For Win7* to something more along the line of *Using TeraByte's BIBM for MultiBooting*.

So I am going to split this topic off to a new thread.  So as of this post, please continue this discussion (meaning the use of BIBM) on the new thread here:  Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3 OS's

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:29am
@ roxe

So, I temporarily *Locked* this thread while I set up the split thread. 

You may or may not want to continue the original topic here, but I have reopened this thread so we can continue the original discussion if you wish.


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:25am
@ roxe

So, lots of posts since I posted yesterday--but back to *on topic*........let's see, where was I......

In your original post:


roxe wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:12pm:
I think I tried using my 2003, but can't remember the results... I think it allowed me to make an image, but couldn't get it to reimage to a partition... could be wrong...

and


roxe wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm:
It doesn't seem to matter what I try, it takes it and works (except for w7pro)!

So, we really need to know *what didn't work*--we'll just be guessing how to try to *fix it* if we don't know what we need to fix! 

Did you try to restore an image of your Win7 and it would not boot?  Did you do a *whole disk* restore from an image, or were you doing a *partition* from image restore?  Or ....?


roxe wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm:
Right from the start I have always partitioned my drives before installing the OSs... except for W7... the first time I let it do it's own thing... didn't like what I saw - found out it could be installed into one partition and from then on, have put it into one.

So, just to establish the base line for the install--you let Win7 do its own thing initially--installing into *unallocated* space, and it must have installed the SRP and the OS partitions, yes? 

When you didn't like the results, you then deleted that installation, pre-partitioned the HDD so you could *force* the Win7 to install into a single partition without the presence of the SRP--correct?


roxe wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 11:46am:
So, where are the W7Pro boot files... 

So, to the *meat and potatoes* of your question:

First, if you have not already done so, you may need to configure Win7 so you can see *hidden and protected* files:  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/show-hidden-files-in-windows-7/

Once you have that taken care of, given that your installation is to a single partition and there is no SRP, the Win7 boot file (the BCD--*boot configuration data* file) should be found on the C: drive in the directory *boot*--so this path:  C:\boot\bcd.  Is it there?

Unlike WinXP which uses *boot.ini* (which is a text file), the BCD file is in computer code and not a text file.  So you can not simply open that file with a text editor and make changes.  One has to use some sort of BCD utility to access the data and make any modifications.  And even with a utility, it's sometimes hard to figure out what's what with the BCD--the various options are often cryptic at best--not intuitive.

I'm going to stop here, let you answer the questions above, and then we can continue.




Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:38am
@ NightOwl



Quote:
Unlike WinXP which uses *boot.ini* (which is a text file), the BCD file is in computer code and not a text file.  So you can not simply open that file with a text editor and make changes.  One has to use some sort of BCD utility to access the data and make any modifications.  And even with a utility, it's sometimes hard to figure out what's what with the BCD--the various options are often cryptic at best--not intuitive.


You mean I'm gonna have to shell out money after all for some ap that can read the gobbledegook in that file????  (I'm not NAMING that ap... that's in another thread now)

See how I got around that?? ;)

---------------------------------------------------------
Now to answer your questions... well maybe...


Quote:
Did you try to restore an image of your Win7 and it would not boot?  Did you do a *whole disk* restore from an image, or were you doing a *partition* from image restore?  Or ....?

I messed around with a trial w7 from M$ back when they were building this OS, and...

I really can't remember what happened... I have this faint thought that there was trouble doing this... but what exactly happened... a blank...

Can't remember if the re-image was back to the same drive/partition; or another drive/partition...
So I need to try it both ways now so I'll know...

however...

I'm not comfortable with making a 2003 image of my w7pro and then re-imaging back to the exact same partition right now... don't want to mess up what's already there that needs "fixing"...
(nothing more boring to me than to keep installing the same OS over and over again)

I can re-image it to my other 2.5 hdd that's empty... and we all know that won't work, cuz it has another ID... right??

So... how do we do this...?

can I re-image it back to the same drive it came from... but to the extended logical instead??  will that give the same result as re-imaging to the partition it came from - that I don't want to mess up??

or do all the partitions on that drive have separate ID's...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:46pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:50am:
I still want to know how-to generalize w7pro in order to use ghost 2003 without switches...


http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1334972104/3#3

Reply #3

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 2:49pm
@ roxe


Quote:
You mean I'm gonna have to shell out money after all for some ap that can read the gobbledegook in that file???? 

:)  No, not a single dime!  Win7 has it's own command line editor--one has to use it sort of *on faith* because it doesn't give you a nice GUI with lots of bells and whistles that lets you explore the different settings, etc. 

Yes, BIBM has a BCD editor that is quite nice to use--that alone could be worth the price of admission.  And if you do a Goggle search on BCD Editor or BCD Utility, you find a number of other *free* choice on the web.  I have only used the BIBM and Windows BCDEdit utility that's built into Win7.  The others I am not personally familiar with.


Quote:
I'm not comfortable with making a 2003 image of my w7pro and then re-imaging back to the exact same partition right now... don't want to mess up what's already there that needs "fixing"...

(nothing more boring to me than to keep installing the same OS over and over again)

That's why we have Ghost  ;) !


Quote:
I can re-image it to my other 2.5 hdd that's empty... and we all know that won't work, cuz it has another ID... right??

That's the *best* way to proceed--test it on a spare HDD and make sure you're comfortable with the steps involved and the results are as expected and predictable before you try it on your *production* system.

Have you made your Win7 backup image to the external USB HDD?  I presume it is a *whole disk* image, and not just the OS partition?  The answer determines what step(s) to take. 


roxe wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 11:46am:
My CD starts the ghost program automatically... all I have to do is click yes/no on the first screen... and then I'm in...

So I'm finally getting back to how to use Ghost 2003 with Win7 issues.....

When your CD boots to Ghost and automatically loads Ghost for you--you will not have any switches in place.  But it's easy to set it up.  Just *Quit* Ghost.  You should be back at the A:\ prompt.  Type


Code:
ghost.exe /fdsp

or

ghost.exe -fdsp

and press enter and now the switch's action will be in force until you quit Ghost and re-load it or re-boot in the future.

Now, your Win7 image is not *generalized* yet, so the disk signature determines if Win7 will boot or not without doing a *repair*.  But, if the *-fdsp* switch is active, then when you restore the Win7 image to a new HDD, Ghost will edit the disk signature as part of the restore so is will be the same as the disk signature from the other HDD from witch the image was taken.

There could be other variables that might cause some type of behavior that is unexpected.  But, as long as we are using a *spare* HDD that will not cause any problem if things don't work out, we can recover, reset things as needed, and try again.  I think it's worth the trial to determine if there are any *gotcha's*.

Once you know you can create a Win7 image and successfully restore it to the test HDD, then we can more confidently start editing the Win7 BCD knowing that we can recover using a Ghost backup if we need to.

Questions?


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:13pm
Oh Boy... here we go...

@ NightOwl


Quote:
Have you made your Win7 backup image to the external USB HDD?  I presume it is a *whole disk* image, and not just the OS partition?  The answer determines what step(s) to take.


nope, will do just the OS partition... the extended logical is empty...


Quote:
When your CD boots to Ghost and automatically loads Ghost for you--you will not have any switches in place.  But it's easy to set it up.  Just *Quit* Ghost.  You should be back at the A:\ prompt.


well, the first prompt is actually a:\ghost.exe (I think)... then when really quiting it all, I do "cd.." to get back to a plain a prompt to restart...


Quote:
...and press enter and now the switch's action will be in force until you quit Ghost and re-load it or re-boot in the future.


Is that when I do the image to the external hdd... or when I do the re-image to the other drive??

(haven't imaged w7 yet... nor xppro... guess I better get busy...)


ummm, when imaging, I usually do a Piraform defrag first... will that work on w7???

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:16pm
@ roxe

I see Brian has answered that specific question about how to *generalize* the BCD.

So, it's a chicken/egg question--do you want to determine if the -fdsp switch works so you know you can restore a backup image if something goes wrong with the steps involved in *generalizing* the BCD, or do you want to *generalize* the BCD and then do Ghost backups and restores without using the -fdsp switch to test.  Either way, you will need to test Ghost without the -fdsp switch to confirm it's working without a hitch.

If the BCD gets messed up, or if Win7 will not boot after a restore, there is a easy, quick fix if you have your Win7 installation CD handy.

Just for the record, I've done the BCD edits on three different systems without any problems, and Ghost 2003 works fine with image creation and restores.  Personally, I've never had any problems with doing the BCD edits.

But, Brian has done it more times than anybody can probably count--so he really knows what he's talking about!

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:26pm
@ NightOwl

NightOwl,

I just tried to make those 4 changes in BIBM BCD Edit. You aren't allowed. So I booted into Win7 and made the edits in a Command Window. When I then used BIBM BCD Edit, the edits were present.

I guess BIBM BCD Edit wasn't designed to assist Ghost 2003.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:31pm
@ roxe


Quote:
nope, will do just the OS partition... the extended logical is empty...

If the extended is empty, it won't take up too much space or time to include it.  When you restore the whole drive, you will see that it re-creates the same structure as the original--if all goes well  ;) .

If you're testing the -fdsp switch, then I would recommend doing a *whole drive* image creation (being that you have not already created the test image), and a *whole drive* restore to the spare HDD.


Quote:
well, the first prompt is actually a:\ghost.exe (I think)...

You can just type *space* and then -fdsp after the a:\ghost.exe if that is what's already there.


Quote:
Is that when I do the image to the external hdd... or when I do the re-image to the other drive??

My initial instructions was assuming you already had the Win7 image backup.  I recommend using the -fdsp switch for both image creation and restore--I'm pretty sure you only really need to use it on the restore, however.

Of course, you have to shut down after creating the image of the source HDD.  Then switch out the source HDD, and put the spare HDD in place.  When you re-boot to Ghost, you then need to shut Ghost down and restart it with the -fdsp switch.

Waiting to hear what your results are!


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:35pm
@ NightOwl

Would this be a reasonable test?

Image Win7 with Ghost 2003, zero the Disk Signature, restore the image to the same partition and see if Win7 boots.

Image Win7 with Ghost 2003 using -fdsp switch, zero the Disk Signature, restore the image to the same partition and see if Win7 boots.


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:47pm
@ NightOwl

I didn't start as the switch is for Whole disk clones, not partition images.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 4:23pm
@ NightOwl
I did this test instead with a non generalized Win7.

Imaged Win7 with Ghost 2003
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 failed to boot. Windows Boot Manager error
Changed the Disk Signature back to the original
Win7 booted

Imaged Win7 with IFD
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 booted



Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm
@ NightOwl


Well, just got thru imaging xppi plus checking the image. Haven't tackled w7 yet...


Quote:
well, the first prompt is actually a:\ghost.exe (I think)...

nope, it is just A:\GHOST>
now how do I use the switch?? do I delete the ">" and make it A:\GHOST.EXE -fdsp ??


Quote:
Of course, you have to shut down after creating the image of the source HDD.  Then switch out the source HDD, and put the spare HDD in place.  When you re-boot to Ghost, you then need to shut Ghost down and restart it with the -fdsp switch.

Waiting to hear what your results are!


ok... that is the next thing to do... and I'm not worried at all about the two xpp OSs... they are a piece of cake :)

oh, when I defraged xppi, it came up with 3 bad clusters... and used 7.7gb with 12.3 gb free on a 20gb partition...
now have to find some more NEW 120gb 2.5 hdd for this laptop...

off to "play" with w7...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm
OK... Brian above here on pg 4 (edit by NightOwl:  i.e. Reply #45) states that the switch is only for full disk backups, not just a partition...

what happens when I have the entire disk full and want to backup ONLY the OS partition??

I've only imaged the w7 partition and am going to try using the switch to re-image it to the other hdd OS partition...

will let you know what happens...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:11pm
@ Brian


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 3:35pm:
Would this be a reasonable test?

Image Win7 with Ghost 2003, zero the Disk Signature, restore the image to the same partition and see if Win7 boots.

Image Win7 with Ghost 2003 using -fdsp switch, zero the Disk Signature, restore the image to the same partition and see if Win7 boots.

As you note in the next Reply--the -fdsp switch only applies if you are doing a *whole disk* restore.  You can do that from a partition contained inside a single or multi-partition image file (i.e. partition to disk restore), but partition to partition--then Ghost 2003 should not zero the disk signature.


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 4:23pm:
Imaged Win7 with Ghost 2003
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 failed to boot. Windows Boot Manager error
Changed the Disk Signature back to the original
Win7 booted

That makes consistence sense.


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 4:23pm:
Imaged Win7 with IFD
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 booted

That does not make consistence sense.  In an un-generalized Win7, the boot success depends on the disk signature remaining the same. 

So, unlike Ghost 2003, IFD (Image for DOS) must be programed to restore the same disk signature that was on the source HDD when taking the image.

I don't see that you checked the disk signature after your successful boot after the restore by IFD to see if it was restored to the original disk signature.

Can you still go back and check that--to explain the successful boot it must be true, however.


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:20pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:11pm:
I don't see that you checked the disk signature after your successful boot after the restore by IFD to see if it was restored to the original disk signature.

I did check the Disk Signature and it was still the edited one. Not the original one.


NightOwl wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:11pm:
So, unlike Ghost 2003, IFD (Image for DOS) must be programed to restore the same disk signature that was on the source HDD when taking the image.


No. The default is to leave the Disk Signature alone. But there ia an option to restore the Disk Signature that has been stored in the image. I didn't use that option.


NightOwl wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:11pm:
That does not make consistence sense.In an un-generalized Win7, the boot success depends on the disk signature remaining the same.


IFD doesn't need to restore the same Disk Signature to enable a non generalized Win7 to boot on a new HD. I checked once and it does a very clever edit in MountedDevices to get around the new Disk Signature issue.



Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:25pm
Continuing from Reply #46

I did this test with a generalized Win7.

Imaged Win7 with Ghost 2003
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 booted (with the edited Disk Signature)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:42pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:
nope, it is just A:\GHOST>
now how do I use the switch?? do I delete the ">" and make it A:\GHOST.EXE -fdsp ??

It would be:


Code:
A:\GHOST>ghost.exe -fdsp



roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
OK... Brian above here on pg 4 (edit by NightOwl:  i.e. Reply #45) states that the switch is only for full disk backups, not just a partition...

what happens when I have the entire disk full and want to backup ONLY the OS partition??

So, to be honest, the -fdsp switch probably does not have any function when doing a *backup*--of either a partition or whole disk.  The switch has its effect when doing a *restore*--and the restore is to create a whole disk restore, and not a partition restore.

So, you can do a whole disk to whole disk restore (the destination disk can be the original source HDD or to a replacement HDD), and the -fdsp switch will restore the original source disk signature that was on the source HDD with the booting Win7 OS to that target HDD, and should allow for successful booting.

You can also restore a single partition in an image file and restore to a whole drive (again, the destination HDD can be the original HDD or a replacement HDD), and the -fdsp switch again will restore the original disk signature that was on the source HDD with the booting Win7 OS to that target HDD, and should allow for successful booting.

But, if you simply do a partition to partition restore (be it a direct copy from one HDD to another, or from an image file to a partition), then Ghost 2003 will not touch the disk signature on the target HDD even if you have used the -fdsp switch.

Basically, Ghost 2003 will not change the disk signature if partition(s) already exist on a HDD.  Ghost 2003 will zero or preserve the disk signature if the whole drive is being re-partitioned and formated by a whole disk restore, but not just a partition restore.


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
I've only imaged the w7 partition and am going to try using the switch to re-image it to the other hdd OS partition... 

So, based on what is said above, I would not expect this restore of just a Win7 OS partition to an already existing partition to boot (unless the target partition is the same as the original source partition)--the disk signature will not be changed--it will not be zeroed and it will not be updated to match the disk signature that was on the original source HDD.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:00pm
@ Brian


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:20pm:
IFD doesn't need to restore the same Disk Signature to enable a non generalized Win7 to boot on a new HD. I checked once and it does a very clever edit in MountedDevices to get around the new Disk Signature issue.

Oh....that's cheating!

Wow!  It's not editing the BCD?  It's accessing the OS Registry and making changes there!  But, how does that square with having the BCD boot file having an entry that depends on the disk signature.  How is a Registry hack getting around the function of the BCD?

Is the change in the MountedDevices using the *new* disk signature in place of the old signature?  But, that doesn't make sense--the BCD should still be looking for the that old signature and there's no way for the MountedDevices to know what the old disk signature was!

Is there any documentation as to what is being done---and how?


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:25pm:
Continuing from Reply #46

I did this test with a generalized Win7.

Imaged Win7 with Ghost 2003
Changed one number in the Disk Signature
Restored the image to the same partition
Win7 booted (with the edited Disk Signature)

And, that would be consistent with expectation--once you *generalize* Win7's BCD, it no longer is concerned about a specific HDD, but instead it's looking for a boot *device*.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:31pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:00pm:
It's accessing the OS Registry and making changes there! 


My memory must be faulty. MountedDevices wasn't changed after an IFD restore. Standby.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:39pm
@ NightOwl
@ Brian

Ok here is what happened...

I partitioned and formatted the extra disk for 30gb OS, extended and logical rest of drive

swap it into laptop, put in ghost cd and hooked up image drive... got into ghost... quit... and promptly forgot that the prompt I was looking at was the directory that has ghost exe in it... got out my ms-dos book and figured it out after doing a "dir" at the A prompt... it wouldn't let me get back to the A Ghost prompt so rebooted and came back in and quit and then put the ghost.exe and switch and got back into ghost...

chose my image and then it wouldn't come up with the drives... so cancelled, chose my image again and this time I could choose the drive... so I chose the drive and partition... imaged the partition... popped open the dvd rom... and rebooted the computer...

No, it wouldn't boot into w7... remembered about using the install disk to repair... so did that and then  booted into w7 and the OS takes up the same amount of space that was in the original image!

So... the bcd files - or something -  on w7 definitely need tweaking...

so... what's next ?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:53pm
@ NightOwl

Following on from Reply #54

You are correct. IFD is editing the BCD. After editing the Disk Signature and restoring a previous Ghost image the BIBM BCD Edit shows HD Unknown for all values.

After editing the Disk Signature and restoring a previous IFD image the BIBM BCD Edit shows correct values.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:55pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:39pm:
so... what's next ? 


Generalize Win7. Copy/paste the 4 lines. You will get confirmation after each line.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:59pm
Oh Brian, did you forget I need step by step???

I have the lines...
does that admin command prompt know where to put them???

I'm confused...

... how do I get an admin command prompt??

I've only played around with w7 when it was being built... don't know anything about it... but I want to learn...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:05pm
@ roxe

Copy/paste the first line and press Enter. That's it. Then the same for the next 3 lines. There should be a success message after you press each Enter.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:08pm
@ Brian

Should I patch the one I just ghosted? or patch the original one and then reghost it into the extra drive??

and how do I get an admin command prompt??
I know nothing about w7...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:16pm
@ roxe

Patch the main one. You will need Win7 generalized all the time.


Quote:
patch the original one and then reghost it into the extra drive??

Yes.


Start button, All Programs, Accessories. You will see Command Prompt. Right click it and choose Run as administrator. Yes on the UAC.

The Title Bar will say Administrator Command Prompt.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:44pm
I'M SO FRUSTRATED.....

I couldn't find the folder options so went into search for bcd... and it came up in the list as C:\boot

so I go into help and bring up "show hidden files"... I unchecked the hide hidden files... said yes to do that... clicked ok... went into my computer and opened C drive... nothing hidden shows at all...

went into users, and yes I am admin...

what gives???? why do they make it so difficult???

and then I found NightOwl's question to me about the boot/bcd... took me another half hour to find it again...

i'm ready to kick this w7 as far as I can... so confused and frustrated...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:49pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:44pm:
I'M SO FRUSTRATED.....


What are you looking for? You won't find anything called BCD in Windows Explorer.

Have you Generalized Win7 yet?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:50pm
please please please please read my post again...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:54pm
NightOwl told me way back to uncheck hidden files... and then I would find the boot folder on C drive...

so that was what I did... so read again above and you will see what happened....

And yes, I was on the original install of w7...

as for the boot folder with bcd in it... I can see it in search... but not inside the C drive...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:55pm
Help me.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:57pm
help you do what??

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:58pm
I can't understand what you are trying to do.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:01pm
no, I haven't generalized w7 yet...

I tried to show the hidden files... but they don't show up...

I can see the C:\boot folder... when I do a search...
but can't see it when I open the C drive... and yes,
I have unchecked the hide hidden files...
----------------------------------------

Quote:
I can't understand what you are trying to do.


I am trying to get the hidden files to show...

and they won't... even tho I have unchecked the hide hidden files in view...

I am admin... and they won't show inside C drive...

how do I get them to show inside C drive???

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:03pm
Have you removed the tick from Hide Protected OS files? (In Folder Options)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:05pm

Quote:
Have you removed the tick from Hide Protected OS files? (In Folder Options)


I have said this four times already... yes I have removed that check mark... and no hidden files show at all...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:07pm
Can you see bootmgr in the C: drive?
Can you see pagefile.sys in the C: drive?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:10pm
no, none of the hidden files show up

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:12pm
Do you have a dot in Show hidden files, folders and drives?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:15pm
I don't know... i'm not on w7 right now... don't want to get it on the internet yet...

anyway did a google about it... and someone on there said they went into users, made a new admin user and now they can do whatever they want...

the user I have in there now says "admin"... but apparently something isn't right...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:17pm

Quote:
Do you have a dot in Show hidden files, folders and drives?


where is that located??

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:20pm
3 lines above "Hide protected OS files"

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:30pm
BRB...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:44pm
@ Brian


thx... found it and it works!!
so many hidden files....

thx for being so patient with me,,, the calm is
coming back... and my curser is jumping all over
the place... but i refuse to let it get to me...

SO...

went into the admin command prompt...
and it says
c:\windows\system 32>

is that what it's supposed to say when I put those 4 lines in??

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:50pm
That's correct.

You will soon be finished with generalization. It's a once only.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:55pm
ok... once only??  untill I need to reinstall   LOLOL

anyway, gonna go back to w7 and do this... then I'll
reformat my extra drive partition that has the install-disk-fix on it and then reghost the original  "tweaked" w7 and then put it on the extra drive and see what happens...

keep your fingers crossed... maybe I can get to sleep by midnight :)

will post here success or failure...

thx again Brian... your patience with me is much appreciated... you win your gold star for today :)

BRB.... sometime...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:00pm

roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:55pm:
once only??untill I need to reinstall


With an image, you should never need to re-install.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:41pm
I assume you are doing this...

Generalize your main Win7 partition
Create a Ghost 2003 image of that partition
Restore the image to another HD in the same laptop
Smile when the restored Win7 boots

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:41pm
@ roxe and @ Brian

Slow down--take a couple deep breaths--we are talking computers here--not life and death!

Let's get things sorted.....

@ Brian

Roxe has been asking about something I said here:


NightOwl wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:25am:
First, if you have not already done so, you may need to configure Win7 so you can see *hidden and protected* files:  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/show-hidden-files-in-windows-7/

Once you have that taken care of, given that your installation is to a single partition and there is no SRP, the Win7 boot file (the BCD--*boot configuration data* file) should be found on the C: drive in the directory *boot*--so this path:C:\boot\bcd.  Is it there?

Unlike WinXP which uses *boot.ini* (which is a text file), the BCD file is in computer code and not a text file.So you can not simply open that file with a text editor and make changes.One has to use some sort of BCD utility to access the data and make any modifications.And even with a utility, it's sometimes hard to figure out what's what with the BCD--the various options are often cryptic at best--not intuitive.




@ roxe

If you look at that link above, it shows you the correct boxes to have checked or unchecked, and which radio button to choose.  The step by step written instructions also specify the settings.  These options have had to be set since WinXP, where they first became an issue--so they are not *new* to Win7.


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:44pm:
I couldn't find the folder options so went into search for bcd... and it came up in the list as C:\boot

So, that search has shown you that the BCD is located in C:\boot.  Apparently you have not made the correct setting changes to reveal the System Files.


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:44pm:
thx... found it and it works!!
so many hidden files....

So, I see you have figured that one out.


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:08pm:
Should I patch the one I just ghosted? or patch the original one and then reghost it into the extra drive??

and


Brian wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:16pm:
Patch the main one. You will need Win7 generalized all the time.

Technically, Brian is correct--you eventually will need your working Win7 generalized if you want things to work without *issues* in the future if using Ghost.  But, if I'm not comfortable with doing something new, I prefer to work with testing on a *spare* HDD that has no consequence to me if I do something wrong. 

I would generalize the spare Win7 HDD, make a new whole disk Ghost backup of it, and then restore the image as a whole disk restore back to the spare HDD to demonstrate that it all works.


roxe wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 10:55pm:
anyway, gonna go back to w7 and do this...
then I'll reformat my extra drive partition that has the install-disk-fix on it and then reghost the original"tweaked" w7 and then put it on the extra drive and see what happens...



If you only do a partition restore to an existing partition, it will have to be to a different HDD with a different disk signature, otherwise you will not have tested whether the *generalized* Win7 is working correctly (note:  reformatting and/or repartitioning does not automatically create a new disk signature--one has to zero the first sector of the HDD to force the creation of a new disk signature--or one can edit the signature if you have the necessary disk editor and knowledge--an advanced skill set).  The only time the bootability becomes an issue is if you restore the Win7 OS to a new replacement HDD, or if you use a whole drive restore to the previous source HDD and Ghost 2003 has zeroed the disk signature as part of the process.

So, if you want the easiest way to test whether the *generalized* Win7 will boot when a new disk signature is generated, then you should do a whole disk image backup, and then a whole disk restore.  That will force a new disk signature (Ghost 2003's default behavior without the -fdsp switch), and if Win7 boots--then the *generalized* BCD is set up properly.

Once you're satisfied that everything has worked properly, then *generalize* your main working HDD with the Win7 OS, make a Ghost backup, and move onto the next issue(s).

As you have already shown, if all else fails, you know you can use the Win7 installation CD to do a repair and fix the problem without too much hassle.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:40am
HEY!!


SUCCESS!!



Yep, went like a piece of cake!  I did tweak my original w7--such trust in you both :)-- imaged it and put it on the extra hdd OS partition...

such a neat thing...  now I don't need worry about the original... already done :)

Yippee!  You both got your gold star for today... :)

and...
it is only 11:38pm... didn't even take till midnight :)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:45am
@ Brian
@ NightOwl

didja see??  didja see??


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:48am
@ roxe

Nice smile.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:52am
@ Brian


ok, one more question... what will happen when I re-image w7 back to the original hdd it came from??

will it do anything to the hdd ID???

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:59am
@ roxe

Congrats!

Now we can go to bed too  ;) !


Quote:
I did tweak my original w7--such trust in you both -- imaged it and put it on the extra hdd OS partition...

Well, that should meet the *different disk signature* test--so I think we can say that the *generalization* has worked.

If you're now comfortable that Ghost 2003 is working correctly with your Win7 OS, you could do the final quick test of restoring the image back to the original Win7 HDD.  It should go without a hitch, and will make you more confident that you can use your latest backup image to restore to if something goes wrong.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:00am
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:52am:
what will happen when I re-image w7 back to the original hdd it came from??

will it do anything to the hdd ID??? 


No problems. Now that your Win7 is Generalized the Disk Signature is irrelevant.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:02am
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 12:59am:
Now we can go to bed too


Not for me yet mate. It's 1602 here.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:11am
Another test with a Generalized Win7.

Ghost can't restore a partition image to a wiped, zeroed HD. But all you need to do is write bootstrap code (or Initialize in Disk Management). The Disk Signature can still be all zeroes. On the restore screen you can select a custom partition size for the restore. If you select a value too small, Ghost changes it to the minimum size that will hold the data. I tried the smallest partition size. Win7 booted and there was 26 MB of Free Space in the partition.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:19am
@ NightOwl


Quote:
Now we can go to bed too  ;) !


Yeah, me too... except I'm too excited yet :)  :)


Quote:
If you're now comfortable that Ghost 2003 is working correctly with your Win7 OS, you could do the final quick test of restoring the image back to the original Win7 HDD.  It should go without a hitch, and will make you more confident that you can use your latest backup image to restore to if something goes wrong.


I knew it... something else to do!!!  It never quits!  ;D


ok... nitey nite... (need a sleepy smiley)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:23am
@ NightOwl


Quote:
First, if you have not already done so, you may need to configure Win7 so you can see *hidden and protected* files:  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/show-hidden-files-in-windows-7/

Once you have that taken care of, given that your installation is to a single partition and there is no SRP, the Win7 boot file (the BCD--*boot configuration data* file) should be found on the C: drive in the directory *boot*--so this path:C:\boot\bcd.  Is it there?


Nah, that's too easy... I had to harrass Brian  ;D


Really, this time... nitey nite...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 8:29pm
@ NightOwl



Quote:
If you look at that link above, it shows you the correct boxes to have checked or unchecked, and which radio button to choose.  The step by step written instructions also specify the settings.


Read right over it... went right to the "did you find it"... and of course I didn't... so the frustration began to build... my fault...


Quote:
  These options have had to be set since WinXP, where they first became an issue--so they are not *new* to Win7.


YES THEY ARE!!!!  cuz back in 2008 when I got my laptop, my son told me to put a dot in there... and since then when I needed to show hidden system files I just unchecked the "hide system files" and never looked again at those buttons...

SO.... when I saw that in w7 I thought... "this is NOT in XP"...

well, I just looked in xp pro... and guess what??
Yeah, I found it... kept looking right over it once it had been set...

no excuses... but I'm still crawling out of the dark hole I've been in for the past three years... so my mind doesn't remember everything... and I want my mind to work the way it used to - quick  - and it just ain't there yet...

I really appreciate Brian's patience with me in my mini meltdown... but at least I didn't YELL at him while this was going on...  lol

Anyway, the success sure did help to bring back my sunny disposition... real quick!!

Read over at the other thread the great new(used) toys my son gave me to play with!!!  am really excited about that :)

fun fun fun...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 24th, 2013 at 12:07pm
@ Brian


Brian wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:02am:
Not for me yet mate. It's 1602 here.

Right!  My bad  ;) !


Brian wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:11am:
Ghost can't restore a partition image to a wiped, zeroed HD. But all you need to do is write bootstrap code (or Initialize in Disk Management).

Ghost 2003 can only restore a partition from an image file to an existing partition (partition to partition).  It should allow you to do a *partition to disk* restore--it will create the needed partitioning and formatting.

But, bootstrap code does not create a partition for Ghost to restore to--I did not expect that Ghost 2003 would be willing to create a new partition to do a partition to partition restore--I always though you had to manually create a destination partition first.


Brian wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:11am:
On the restore screen you can select a custom partition size for the restore.

Maybe, you had selected *partition to whole disk* restore, and then you were given the option to control what portion of the whole disk to use on that next page?

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Sep 24th, 2013 at 12:14pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:19am:
I knew it... something else to do!!!  It never quits! 

That is correct!


roxe wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 8:29pm:
I really appreciate Brian's patience with me in my mini meltdown... but at least I didn't YELL at him while this was going on...lol

It was close....really, really close--I sensed building tension  :) !


roxe wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 8:29pm:
Read over at the other thread the great new(used) toys my son gave me to play with!!!  am really excited about that

Here's a link for anyone who doesn't know the reference being made:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1379859183/22#22

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 24th, 2013 at 2:15pm
@ NightOwl


NightOwl wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 12:07pm:
Maybe, you had selected *partition to whole disk* restore, and then you were given the option to control what portion of the whole disk to use on that next page? 


I repeated the test as I'm interested in the answer too. The source HD was 640 GB with multiple partitions. I imaged a 15 GB Win7 64-bit partition containing 10 GB of data. Win7 was "generalized".

The target HD was also 640 GB and on checking the MBR with a disk editor it was empty of partitions. There was boot code, a zeroed Disk Signature and no partitions.

I did a Local, Partition, From Image. On the "Select destination partition from Basic drive" box there was a single line showing...

NEW, Primary, 07, NTFS, No name, 610477, 0

These refer to..

Part, Type, ID, Description, Label, Size, Data Size

Remember, this drive is entirely unallocated space but Ghost is calling it a NTFS partition. The 610477 field is editable. Out of interest I chose 333333. Ghost restored the image.

Win7 64-bit booted, partition size 325 GB.

I tried again just so I could look at Local, Disk, From Image. The "Destination Drive Details" box showed...

1, Primary, 07, NTFS, Diskload, 96397, 15000, 10812

These refer to..

Part, Type, ID, Description, Label, New Size, Old Size, Data Size

The 96397 field is editable. Out of interest I chose 222222. Ghost restored the image.

Win7 64-bit booted, partition size 217 GB.


Edit... In this old post, Reply #19

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1155827177/15

I reported restoring a Ghost 2003 image to unallocated space.




Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 24th, 2013 at 4:36pm
The original Win7 partition was 2048 sector aligned and as expected, the partition created by Ghost was legacy cylinder aligned.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:37pm
@ Brian


Quote:
With an image, you should never need to re-install.


OK, how about when you get a new computer which needs different drivers???  eh???

...splain that one  8-)


Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:44pm
@ NightOwl


roxe wrote on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 1:19am:
Quote:
If you're now comfortable that Ghost 2003 is working correctly with your Win7 OS, you could do the final quick test of restoring the image back to the original Win7 HDD.It should go without a hitch, and will make you more confident that you can use your latest backup image to restore to if something goes wrong.


I knew it... something else to do!!!It never quits! ;D


I knew there was something else... that this topic just wasn't ready to quit... guess I'll do that now and see what happens...

BRB

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:16pm
@ roxe


roxe wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:37pm:
OK, how about when you get a new computer which needs different drivers???eh???


That can be done easily but learning how to do it is not so easy. TeraByte Unlimited has a script for it. I have the WinXP and Win7 from my old Dell computer running on this computer which has an Asus motherboard. I've restored images from OS on laptops to desktop computers and vice versa.

But in general, I do install a new OS when I have a new computer. But it never gets installed a second time on that computer. I never reformat.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Sep 30th, 2013 at 9:34pm
@ NightOwl


roxe wrote on Sep 30th, 2013 at 8:44pm:
Quote:
If you're now comfortable that Ghost 2003 is working correctly with your Win7 OS, you could do the final quick test of restoring the image back to the original Win7 HDD.It should go without a hitch, and will make you more confident that you can use your latest backup image to restore to if something goes wrong.

I knew it... something else to do!!!It never quits! ;D

I knew there was something else... that this topic just wasn't ready to quit... guess I'll do that now and see what happens...


OK... did it... and the result looks the same...

ho hum...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by NightOwl on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 4:22am
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by roxe on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 10:40am
@ NightOwl

Oh wise one...
thank you so much...
you've earned your gold star for the day ;)


cuz this topic probably isn't over yet...

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by OldCasper on Oct 7th, 2013 at 5:13pm
Old news....Ghost 2003 will back up and restore Windows 7,,,,,,BUT, then the OS will not boot.

Because in laymen's terms, Ghost 2003 was never designed to handle the new format that came about after Windows XP.
For Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1, Ghost 11.5 is required, if you still want to do your backups in DOS.
Now if you're backing up with some later version of Ghost in Windows, that's another matter all together.

Old guys have Old ways.  What can I say?  Ghost 11.5, run from a DOS boot CD, works GREAT for all OS's from '98 to 8.1.  ::)

8-)

Title: Re: Ghost for Win 7
Post by Brian on Oct 7th, 2013 at 10:39pm
@ OldCasper

Ghost 2003 works fine with Vista, Win 7, Win8 and Win8.1. The restored image boots from the same and from a new HD.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1379473957/90#92

Post #92

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