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winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background (Read 33954 times)
peter s. d.
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #15 - Dec 5th, 2004 at 4:59pm
 
NightOwl, since all the credits for solving my Prob are yours; and since you seem to be radINSIDER, while I am just a guest (stiil) may I suggest an ammendment to Rad Ghost Guide (specifically on page 11 of 21.pdf = top of page) be added for such an ordinary case as mine. (Wording should be edited, though, my English is not the best): "Ghosting an image of a HDD with (manufacturer's) diagnostic Primary Partition must be done not from Windows, but from a bootable Floppy disk, formatted with MS DOS (and NOT with PC DOS) = thus avoiding at all costs the Virtual Partition of Ghost" Then, another issue I have stumbled before that -again to do with Virtual Partition- is that this VPartition is Primary; and since a HDD cannot have more than 4 Primary Partitions, the user must be aware to have no more than 3 Primary partitions, or get an error message.
I am still trying to Ghost the abovementioned HDD (or at least the OS Partition C:\) and keep getting "write errors", though... tried various CD Brands media, tried with or without compression, tried to cool down the system till the morning = the same, errors at the 3rd to 6th CD, such a waste...
 
 
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #16 - Dec 5th, 2004 at 6:43pm
 
peter s. d.

Quote:
and since you seem to be radINSIDER


Actually, my 'Official Rad Warrior' designation means I'm an overactive forum poster  Wink --but I can not claim so much to be an 'Insider'.  But, as a personal interest, I've tried to learn as much as I can about Ghost, and I enjoy problem solving.

Quote:
"Ghosting an image of a HDD with (manufacturer's) diagnostic Primary Partition must be done not from Windows, but from a bootable Floppy disk, formatted with MS DOS (and NOT with PC DOS) = thus avoiding at all costs the Virtual Partition of Ghost"


Part of the problem of making that a 'global' recommendation is that these problems do not effect everyone equally--some people are effected, but actually--most are not effected by these problems--so it's hard to make a hard and fast rule.  But it certainly is not a bad recommendation.

I suspect this suggestion is coming from the Symantec FAQ:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/2002092510522725?

If you read through that FAQ, there are a number of different possible reasons why Ghost might fail--not just a 'Diagnositic Partition' or using 'PC-DOS'--it could be incompatibility with your optical drive.  

Now that you know how to recover from the problem--you could test to see if it is the optical drive--with the system shut down, disconnect the IDE communication cable from the optical drive, reboot to Windows, and try to perform a Ghost backup of a small partition to another partition on the HDD, and see if Ghost successfully can do the operation using the virtual partition.

However, I'm suspecting that the 'Diagnostic Partition' may be a non-standard partition, which the FAQ says may mess Ghost up when using the virtual partition.  I'm curious--does PartitionMagic indicate that 'Diagnostic Partition' is in some way different from the other partitions?

Will Ghost let you create an image of the 'Diagnostic Partition' and save it to the HDD?  And if 'yes', does the image pass an integrity check?  If 'yes' again, you could consider trying to delete the 'Diagnostic Partition' and leave the disk space as 'unallocated' disk space, and now see if Ghost can successfully use the virtual partition in a Ghosting operation.  (Don't do the above if you are not reasonably sure the Ghost image is good, and you want to be able to restore the 'Diagnostic Partition', or you do not care if the 'Diagnostic Partition' might be lost.)

Quote:
I am still trying to Ghost the abovementioned HDD (or at least the OS Partition C:\) and keep getting "write errors", though... tried various CD Brands media, tried with or without compression, tried to cool down the system till the morning = the same, errors at the 3rd to 6th CD, such a waste...


This makes me think that the above suggestion that there is a possible compatibility problem with your optical drive even more possible.

Couple different things...

1.  Whenever I see the problem you mention above, it almost always means there some compatibility issue between Ghost and the optical drive.

2.  Ghost 2003's last update was somewhere around Dec., 2003, and Jan., 2004--you stated your system was new in Mar., 2004--so Ghost's most recent update may not include compatibilty with your hardware.

3.  You also say you have never connected your system to the Internet--so if you are using the Ghost.exe from the purchased CD for NortonSystemworks, then your version is older than the last update.  If you had the most recent update, Ghost might work okay with your hardware.

My updated most recent Ghost version is:

C:\>ghost -ver
Norton Ghost 2003 (build=793, cdrlib=3.1.25)
Copyright (C) 1998-2003 Symantec Corp. All rights reserved.

You can check your version this way:

Quote:
To find the version number of Ghost.exe:

Click Start > Programs > MS-DOS prompt.
Change to the directory that has the file Ghost.exe.

Type: Ghost.exe -ver


This displays a line similar to:
NORTON Ghost version 6.01 (build=58 )


If you do not wish to connect your system to the Internet and use Nortons 'LiveUpdate', you could install Ghost on your other computer that you do connect to the Internet with, use LiveUpdate' to get Ghost updated to the most current version.   And then copy that Ghost.exe over to your other computer--deleting or overwriting the older version.

(Added 12/06/04:  Remember, if you update your Ghost.exe program, it's best to update you Ghost boot disks too so you're using the same version of Ghost throughout.)

4.  If you're having problems with Ghosting to optical media, try to use re-writeable media, if possible, until you get the problems corrected--so you can erase the old media and re-use to try again--to reduce waste  Wink .
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are Wink !&&
 
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peter s. d.
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WoW! winXP defrost at Ghost2003 (PC DOS)
Reply #17 - Dec 5th, 2004 at 7:06pm
 
nOwl, as always, i am impressed by ur competence; and frankly, i will have difficulty to follow with my English and slow speed. For the time being i will answer only the easiest issue: the diagnostic partition is indeed different (pqPM8 says): it is a different colour, being FAT (non 32); it is tiny; it is located at the very beginning of the HDD; and it is Primary. And yes, I will try and report back to image to the HDD and not to the DVD burner. I don't think I can use RW media to rewrite / reduce wastage unless I format the media first (be it CD or DVD) and that seems to be an issue with Ghost, no? Thx, best rgds, i love yr forum = and you are not even a Moderator or a VIP?
 
 
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #18 - Dec 6th, 2004 at 1:53am
 
peter s. d.

Quote:
(pqPM8 says): it is a different colour, being FAT (non 32); it is tiny; it is located at the very beginning of the HDD; and it is Primary


It's probably FAT16--and the information seems normal--so probably not non-standard.

Quote:
I don't think I can use RW media to rewrite / reduce wastage unless I format the media first (be it CD or DVD) and that seems to be an issue with Ghost, no?


Actually, no you do not have to format the media first--Ghost takes care of all that, and will ask if it's okay to erase the data if you have already used the media before--of course, that's assuming Ghost and your optical drive work together properly.  But, yes, Ghost may have a problem using a disk that's formated first, if the formating is a file system Ghost can not work with.

But I have made Ghost image files to CD-RW's and reused them, either by having Ghost erase the disk when creating a new image file, or by using the disk tool in Roxio to first erase the disk before reusing it.

And, if it turns out that Ghost can not write an image directly to your optical drive, you still have the option of creating an image of the partition to the HDD using the '-split' command to control the size of each file in the image, then burning the image file(s) to the CD or DVD media for backup.  

Be aware that if Ghost does not burn the image files directly to the optical media, you need to use the boot disk(s) with CD/DVD support so drive letters are assigned to your optical drive(s)--otherwise, Ghost's standard boot disk will say the image files are not Ghost files and can not be read!
 

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peter s. d.
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #19 - Dec 6th, 2004 at 8:59pm
 
Great idea, i will try that (not tonight and not tomorrow...) Briefly, now, i will return to the diagn. part. i see i have omitted that pqPM8 tells me that it is HIDDEN. however i made (and verified) an image of it to another empty partition then deleted the original, who cares. the same done with the OS partition C:\; and the same with the partition P:\ where i install all my programs. all got verified. all this with the dvd rw drive disconnected as per ur advice. now i have a few (uncompressed) images of some 2g each (how does ghost know at what size to cut the spans if user cannot specify if it is a CD or DVD span???) and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)? tried to open the dim8300 and that was really tricky; then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard. so my attempt to connect a slave hdd miserably failed. (the idea was to ghost from image to slave hdd) so, there. see u wednesday. thx, a real pleasure to communicate. no paypal, really? all dell (and gates too) know is ask for money...
 
 
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peter s. d.
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #20 - Dec 6th, 2004 at 9:04pm
 
almost forgot: my version of ghost is exactly like yours, as described. again i am impressed by ur ability to focus on specifics. the dim8300 gets connected to the internet, once in a blue moon. so, there...
 
 
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #21 - Dec 6th, 2004 at 10:53pm
 
Quote:
"...tried to open the dim8300 and that was really tricky; then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard. so my attempt to connect a slave hdd miserably failed...

peter s. d.

The latest Dell 8400 series are using the SATA HDD connection rather than the broad-ribbon EIDE/ATA type.  If you have one SATA port on your systemboard, then you surely have two - but if your spare HDDs are all EIDE/ATA, I am at a loss.

El Pescador
 

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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #22 - Dec 7th, 2004 at 2:34am
 
peter s. d.

Okay, it sounds like you are making Ghost images successfully, but you did not mention if you're using the Windows interface (and the virtual partition), or if you're using the Ghost DOS boot floppys.

And, you said you have disconnected the optical drive,
and
deleted the diagnostic partition--but, did you determine if it's one or the other (or both) that's causing the original problem you were having?

Added later:  

Ah--I think I answered my own question--
Quote:
however i made (and verified) an image of it (the diagnostic partition) to another empty partition then deleted the original,
Sounds like you must have disconnected the optical drive first, then made the image of the diagnostic partition--was that using the Windows interface and the virtual partition?  If yes, then it's probably the optical drive that's the problem--not the diagnostic partition.


Have you tried using the Standard Ghost Boot Disk floppy to see if Ghost will load successfully from the floppy and not freeze when the optical drive is still connected?  I suspect that if Ghost freezes when you reboot to the virtual partition and it's because your optical drive is not compatible, then there is a likelyhood that it will do the same from the boot floppy as well.  

If Ghost will not work with the optical drive still connected, then it's going to be inconvenient to have to constantly disconnect and re-connect the optical drive in order to use Ghost--and then transfer the images to the optical media.

Quote:
i will return to the diagn. part. i see i have omitted that pqPM8 tells me that it is HIDDEN


That's okay, it should be HIDDEN unless you need to use it.

Quote:
and the same with the partition P:\


Wow--lots of partitions!

Quote:
some 2g each (how does ghost know at what size to cut the spans if user cannot specify if it is a CD or DVD span) and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)?


Ghost will make the files the maximum size of approx. 2 GB each--the DOS limit--and the last file smaller if there's anything left over at the end, by default if saving to the HDD.

How to control the size of the files saved to the HDD depends on whether you're starting Ghost from the Windows interface, or booting from the boot floppys.

If it's from the boot floppys, and Ghost is automatically started, then you have to quit Ghost, and at the DOS prompt you have to restart Ghost with the ' -split=x' switch by typing:

'Ghost -split=650' without the quote marks (and that's a space between Ghost and the -split)--the 650 can be whatever size you want, 600, 630, 680, or whatever up to 2048--whatever will fit on the optical media you're using.

If you're using the Windows Ghost interface, then when you reach the point where it offers you 'Advanced settings...', you will want to select that and then the 'Ghost Command Line' tab.  That's where you would type '-split=650' or whatever size you want.

Quote:
then the 120g HDD inside is not connected to IDE via the usual ribbon but some strange cable from the mboard


Sounds like a 'Serial' cable, i.e. SATA (Serial ATA), but most motherboards have one or more IDE controllers as well as the SATA controller, but you may have to buy a cable--or, your optical drive is probably connected to the IDE controller--should be an extra connector on that cable unless it's connected to an additional optical drive.

Quote:
my version of ghost is exactly like yours, ...the dim8300 gets connected to the internet, once in a blue moon


Then, you must have used live update!--unfortunately, sounds like it did not help with making the optical drive work successfully with Ghost.

Ultimately, you may want to consider a different optical drive--I have had good results with the Plextor line of CD-RW's and DVD optical writers.

Quote:
and i wonder how to get those out of the HDD (partition)?
 

Not sure what you mean--explain.



 

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Scott Hammo
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #23 - Feb 4th, 2006 at 10:46am
 
Hi there NightOwl. It appears you certainly know your stuff about norton ghost. I was wondering if you could give me a hand?

I am also experiencing the same problem as peter, however mine is a little more indepth now. Before reading symantics FAQ i deleted the ghost partition via the Windows XP Setup CD. Now when the PC tries boot into windows, I get a message saying - "reboot and select proper boot device".

For a more detailed description of my problem, please see the below link. I really don't want to have to format my PC. Please assist.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=446323
 
 
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Scott Hammo
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #24 - Feb 4th, 2006 at 11:02am
 
I just realised you need to be registered on overclockers to view their forum. So here is my post from their forum below. Thanks for your help. - Scott

"I tried to run Ghost 2003 to ghost the system drive to another partition on the same disk. The system restarted... And never finished (it got stuck).

After a while I restarted the computer, but it kept running the Dos 7 version on a new C ghost system drive , the former windows drive being sent to Q. Impossible to restart windows, using the ghost utilities, or even access my other drives from the C drive.

Using the windows disk, I got back to recovery console on Q, and ERASED THE SYSTEM PARTITION, aiming at restating the windows drive as system partition. After this, the Q windows drive went back to C:.

But now when the computer boots, it says "reboot and select proper boot device".

Using the windows disk and the console, I runned both fixboot and fdisk/mbr. These both didn't fix the problems. I am really out of ideas and not keen on formatting. Your help would be great. Thanks"
 
 
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #25 - Feb 4th, 2006 at 12:12pm
 
Scott Hammo

From you description--it sounds like you were *trapped* in Ghost 2003's *virtual partition* that is created when using the Windows based Ghost interface.

Quote:
Impossible to restart windows, using the ghost utilities, or even access my other drives from the C drive.

It's unclear what you mean by *... using the ghost utilities...*, but here's some references that could help recovering from being trapped in the *virtual partition*:

How to use GhReboot


Cannot start Windows after starting a Ghost 2003 task from Windows


How to restart the computer into Windows if a problem is encountered after running Ghost 2003


Quote:
Using the windows disk, I got back to recovery console on Q, and ERASED THE SYSTEM PARTITION, aiming at restating the windows drive as system partition. After this, the Q windows drive went back to C:.

At this point, I'm not sure of what all you have done and altered on the system--the above recovery suggestions may not work if you have deleted the *virtual partition*.

Are you able to determine if the C:\ partition is set as the *active* boot partition?

Also, if you can create an *Emergency boot floppy disk*, and can successfully boot to you WinXP--this might give you added troubleshooting options:

How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable to start Windows XP



 

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Scott Hamilton
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #26 - Feb 4th, 2006 at 8:58pm
 
Hi NightOwl

It definetly does sound like I was having the same problem has peter. Only problem with me is that I deleted the Ghost Partition via the Windows XP CD before reading the troubleshooting guide provided in this thread on this forum.

Id say that you would be correct, those troubleshooting links for Ghost will most probably no longer work as I have deleted the ghost partition via Windows XP Boot CD.

I am able to see the partition left over if I boot off the Windows XP CD, it says "C: Partition1 (LocalDrive) [NTFS] 76309MB (38433 MB free)

Not too sure why it won't boot off it when starting up though. Its weird.

I did take a look at the Microsoft link you supplied me, however, it says to locate the boot.ini file and 2 other files. I am unable to access my PC and therefore unable to copy this files to floppy. I did take a look for these files on another PC in my household, but I couldn't locate the boot.ini file. I tried seraching for it via the Windows search utility but no luck. I could locate the other 2 files though.

I am now sort of out of ideas, and afraid I might need to format. Thanks for your assistance, any more ideas would be great.

 
 
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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #27 - Feb 5th, 2006 at 12:18pm
 
Scott Hamilton

Quote:
I am now sort of out of ideas, and afraid I might need to format.

Need to be willing to *fight* a little harder than this--if there's reason to want to recover your system and there's data you do not want to loose!  Formatting is/should be the solution of last resort!

And, if you're willing to do that--well, then you should be willing to try all sorts of things to see if they work--because you have already written off worrying about *safe* recovery!

Quote:
those troubleshooting links for Ghost will most probably no longer work as I have deleted the ghost partition via Windows XP Boot CD

But, I would try *GhReboot* to see if it can still recover the system--yes, it *may not work*--but, *it may*!

Quote:
Not too sure why it won't boot off it when starting up though.

When Ghost set up the *Virtual Partition*, it alters the Master Boot Record* so the boot partition that is *active* is the *Virtual Partition*.  You need a *tool* like PartitionMagic that you can run from DOS to look at the status of the C:\ partition to see if it's *active*--I suspect it's not--and then change it to *active*.

Quote:
I did take a look for these files on another PC in my household, but I couldn't locate the boot.ini file. I tried seraching for it via the Windows search utility but no luck. I could locate the other 2 files though.

You need a WinXP system, and you need to have the system set up to show *all files*.  Open Windows Explorer, select *Tools/Folder Options...*:

...

...

You can create a *generic* boot.ini--open Notepad, copy and paste the lines below, and save the file as *boot.ini*:


[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /SOS


If your OS is on a partition other than the first one, you have to change the *partition(1)* to *partition(2)* or *partition(3)* .

I've made three boot floppys, one for each of the possible partition options above, so if one doesn't work, I try the other.

Also, you may want to consider trying the *Recovery Console*.  There are two commands that might help--*fixboot* and *fixmbr*:

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console


I think the best first step is to determine if your OS partition is set as *active*:

The computer does not start after you change the active partition


 

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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #28 - Feb 5th, 2006 at 1:23pm
 
Scott Hamilton

Here's a possible tool to view the status of your OS partition:

MBRWizard - The MBR utility you've been looking for!


It's freeware.

Boot to DOS and use the *MBRWizD.exe* program with this command line to start it:

mbrwizd.exe /list

It will show which partition is active and which are hidden.

Here's what it showed for my system:

G:\Utilities\MBRWizard\v 1.53>mbrwiz.exe /list
MBRWiz - Version 1.53 for Windows XP/2K/PE               August 23, 2004
  Copyright (c) 2002-2004 Roger Layton                 software@bigr.net

Disk: 0   Size=114G
Pos MBRndx Type/Name  Size Active Hide Start Sector   Sectors
--- ------ ---------- ---- ------ ---- ------------ ------------
 0    0    07-NTFS    7.6G   Yes   No                 63   15,502,662
 1    1    1C-FAT32x  3.2G   No    Yes   52,163,055    6,490,260
 2    2    0F-EXTEND   86G   No    No    58,653,315  175,783,230

Disk: 1   Size=114G
Pos MBRndx Type/Name  Size Active Hide Start Sector   Sectors
--- ------ ---------- ---- ------ ---- ------------ ------------
 0    0    0F-EXTEND  114G   No    No        16,065  234,420,480


Added 2/5/2006 at 10:50 am:  I used the Windows version for the above sample of the output--but expect the DOS output to be the same.
 

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Re: winXP frozen at Ghost2003 (PC DOS) background
Reply #29 - Feb 5th, 2006 at 2:24pm
 
Great find NightOwl!
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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