Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Ghost and PC Restore on Dell (Read 16922 times)
WilliamP
Technoluster
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 133


Back to top
Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Nov 15th, 2005 at 6:32pm
 
Does the PC Restore on Dell systems  present any problems Ghosting? Also I read in one of the posts that Katrina got El Pescador. I was sorry to hear that . I was born and raised in New Orleans. I live below Atlanta now. I certainly feel for the poeple that were affected. I hope that it wasn't too bad.
 
 
IP Logged
 

Rad
Radministrator
*****
Offline


Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2005 at 7:02pm
 
See here:

http://radified.com/blog/archives/000141.html

It takes up a primaty partition, which is no problem if you use Ghost 2003 with a DOS boot floppy, but can prevent you from using the Windows interface with Ghost 2003 .. depending how you partition the drive, cuz an exttended partition counts as a primary.

Not sure about Ghost 9/10. I'd guess no problem there.

I believe the Dell utility is based on Ghost (not sure). I heard it was made by Symantec.
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 4:51pm
 
Rad wrote:
"I believe the Dell utility is based on Ghost (not sure). I heard it was made by Symantec."


Yes.  See the resemblance?


WilliamP wrote:
"Does the PC Restore on Dell systems present any problems Ghosting?"


You'll find a lot of information about DSR (Dell System Restore) on my webpage at www.goodells.net/dellrestore, although I've had to remove some information after an unfriendly notice from Dell's lawyers.

It depends on what you're doing with Ghost.  Simply creating an image or restoring an image back to the original disk should pose no problems.  If your plan is to clone the original disk to a replacement hard disk, you may have problems.

First of all, the two "hidden" Dell partitions (more appropriately thought of as "disguised" rather than hidden) bear non-standard type descriptors in the partition table, although the actual partitions themselves are ordinary fat16 and fat32 partitions.  Ghost recognizes the partitions, but sometimes fails to keep them properly hidden, which results in them showing up with drive letters when the Windows copy is booted.

Second, Dell uses a custom MBR, and depending on how you use Ghost, this may or may not get copied.

Finally, the Dell System Restore (DSR) feature requires case-sensitive partition labels, and Ghost apparantly does not preserve these correctly.  (I don't use Ghost 9/10, but I'm hearing from others that this is happening.)  For example, it requires the first partition be labeled "DellUtility", but Ghost may copy this as "DELLUTILITY".

These problems don't mean you can't use Ghost, but you'll need to do some minor cleanup afterward.  That's the purpose of my utility, dsrfix, available on my webpage.


 
 
IP Logged
 
Rad
Radministrator
*****
Offline


Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 10:17pm
 
You got a letter from Dell's lawyers? That means they consider your site has clout? I'm proud of you. I've gotten my fair fair of unfriendly "notices" from lawyers, altho not from Dell's.

What did it say? .. if I can ask.

legal-misery loves company.  Smiley
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 2:59am
 
I had posted a great deal more detail about how the DSR feature works, including a detailed examination of Dell's MBR code to explain exactly how Dell's boot process works.  (Incidentally, this also revealed a bug in the code, though I doubt the lawyers noticed that.)

They stated that the information I've been providing can cause "damage to Dell by having to expend its time and resources resolving such issues for its customers (and) negatively impact the overall goodwill in Dell's business and marks that it has strived to develop."

Clearly, the lawyers need a reality check.  It might be a different matter if Dell actually could resolve such issues for its customers, but so far they haven't been able to provide any solution at all.

The Dell System Restore feature is not necessarily a bad idea, but it is fragile and easily broken.  Actions such as repartitioning with Partition Magic, or running "fixmbr", or cloning to a new disk, or reinstalling XP (even from a Dell-supplied reinstallation CD) render DSR inoperable.  These are not unusual activities.  Many users are unwittingly losing their DSR function this way.  To their dismay, they are finding out later that Dell support knows of no way to fix this.

My webpage explains how to repair DSR.  My repair utility, dsrfix, has been downloaded about 7,000 times since I posted it in May.  I have yet to receive a single report that it messed up anyone's system.  On the contrary, I'm receiving emails daily telling me how it successfully restored their system, despite Dell support telling them it couldn't be done.

I'm not the reason it's costing so much for Dell support to deal with DSR failures, or that customer goodwill is being impacted.

However, unlike your legal battles, I have nothing to gain by fighting the lawyers.  They took issue with certain copyright issues, so I've removed whatever they claimed infringed on Dell's copyrights.

 
 
IP Logged
 
NightOwl-
Übermensch
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat...."

Posts: 2094
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound-USA


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 10:32am
 
Dan Goodell

Sounds like Dell has it *half-ass backwards*!  The lawyers should have been offering you a contract to handsomely pay you for the rights to use your intellectual property to fix their product.

God--they (corporations) waste their money in all the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons.
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
IP Logged
 

Rad
Radministrator
*****
Offline


Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 11:00am
 
You obviously did the smart thing by removing the things they claimed infringed, cuz, as you say, you had nothing to gain.

But fact of the matter is .. they should've bought your app and sent you a tidy little fee every month for your trouble.

That bit about "damage to Dell by having ..." is a crock.

Are you surprised they found your site? I mean, in a way, it's a compliment.
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 10:27pm
 
"Are you surprised they found your site?"


No, not really.  It's become very popular.  Even though the site has only existed for 6 months,  it's getting over 8,000 visits monthly.  On Dell's own "Community Forums" website, the regulars have been routinely referring users to my site for months.  For awhile now, I've figured Dell reps were aware of it.

What has surprised me, though, is that Dell is still telling users there is no way to repair the DSR if they've lost access to it, even though the partition may still be intact on the hard disk.  You'd think that someone at Dell would look at my site and say, "Jeez, why didn't we think of that?  We could be doing this ourselves."  After all, I had laid out all the details for them on a silver platter. 
 
 
IP Logged
 
Malcolm Ashton
Guest




Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #8 - Nov 22nd, 2005 at 6:48am
 
Dan - dsrfix worked like a dream on my Dell laptop and saved me having to send the machine back to Dell. I had tried to recover it using various (fixmbr, etc) but to no avail. dsrfix fixed the Dell recovery partition and enabled me to use Ctrl-F11 and restore it to its original factory settings. Keep up the good work! 

As a result of nearly losing eveything I have purchased Ghost 10 to ensure I have a backup image on a mobile harddrive.  Does anyone know if I can use this to backup/image 3 other PCs at home or whether I will need to purchase the full Ghost 10 product for each PC separately?

Thanks,
Malcolm
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 2:34am
 
"dsrfix worked like a dream on my Dell laptop"


I appreciate the feedback, Malcolm.  Thanks!

I can't answer your Ghost 10 question, as I don't use it.  But I'm sure that would be covered in the EULA, wouldn't it?
 
 
IP Logged
 
Cindy
Guest




Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #10 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 12:29pm
 
Hello,

If partition the hardisk will make the DSR not working, is there any point to repaire it? I really need to partion my hardrive. 

Thanks

Cindy
 
 
IP Logged
 

Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #11 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 7:12pm
 
"If partition the hardisk will make the DSR not working, is there any point to repaire it?"


Yes, if you want to be able to restore to the "as-shipped" Windows configuration at some time in the future.

For example, let's say you split your "one-giant-C-partition" into a smaller C plus a new D partition.  In this scenario, you would use something like PartitionMagic to do the repartitioning, then run dsrfix to repair DSR and keep it functional.  Then at a later date you would have the ability to restore your C partition back to its "as-shipped" without undoing your repartitioning.  DSR does not restore the original partition structure, it merely restores the software back to the state it was in when you first got the machine, albeit as a smaller partition.

Of course, if you have your own copy of Ghost, then presumably you're going to be making regular Ghost backups, which would minimize the value of the Dell restore partition altogether.  DSR is of the most value to Dell customers who don't have Ghost or a similar tool.
 
 
IP Logged
 
XPAddict
N00b
Offline



Posts: 8


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #12 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 1:18pm
 
Read w/interest the great information that Dan Goodell has provided on the Dell Restore Partition since getting my new Inspiron 6000.  Now a few questions:

Is the fi.gho image file located in that 3rd partition "readable" by current version of Ghost Enterprise?  OR what is the latest shipping version of Ghost that can read & restore same?

What is the easiest way to change the MBR partition type to a standard FAT32 so that I can access that partition in Windows PE or XP?

I simply want to get at the original ghost image and back it up to DVD or external drive for restore access if/when needed.  I don't need or want to use the existing Dell Restore mechanism going forward, as I will be moving to a dual boot XP/Vista machine within the next week or so..

XPAddict
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #13 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 6:02pm
 
Is the fi.gho image file located in that 3rd partition "readable" by current version of Ghost Enterprise?


As near as I can tell, fi.gho seems to be in ordinary Ghost 2003 format.  Anything that can read v2003 images should be able read the fi.gho image.  I regularly use Ghost 2003 from DOS to both read and write updated fi.gho images.  (I do this for friends and clients--configuring a new system with their own programs, mail settings, etc., then creating a fresh fi.gho image that they can restore to via Dell's PC-Restore technique.)

What is the easiest way to change the MBR partition type to a standard FAT32 so that I can access that partition in Windows PE or XP?  I simply want to get at the original ghost image and back it up to DVD or external drive for restore access if/when needed.


That's very easily done.  Temporarily expose the hidden Dell partition and manipulate the image file just like any other file.

If you happen to have a PartitionMagic CD, buried on it are two utilities, ptedit.exe (for DOS) and ptedit32.exe (for NT/2K/XP).  If you don't have PM, my website has a link to download ptedit (but not ptedit32) from Symantec's ftp site.

Run ptedit32, or boot to real DOS and run ptedit.  Change the partition type of the third partition from 'DB' to '0C'.  This will expose the third partition to Windows, so when you reboot into Windows that partition will be assigned a new drive letter. 

Now that you have access, simply drag the files from the \img directory to whereever you want to copy them.  These files will include fi.gho plus one or more fi00000?.ghs files.  Note that they are too big to fit on CD, but they should all fit on a DVD.

Also copy the \bin\recover.exe file and the mouse driver.  Put them on the same DVD.  Recover.exe is a crippled variation of Ghost 2003, so can be used to restore fi.gho if you don't happen to have Ghost 2003. 

When you need to restore, simply boot from a DOS boot disk, switch to the CD/DVD drive letter, load the mouse driver, and launch recover.exe.  From here, you'll manually direct recover.exe through the restore process, exactly as you would in Ghost 2003.  (In contrast, while within Dell's DSR environment recover.exe is scripted through a batch file to restore without manual intervention.)
 
 
IP Logged
 
XPAddict
N00b
Offline



Posts: 8


Back to top
Re: Ghost and PC Restore on Dell
Reply #14 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 7:19pm
 
THANKS!  Remembered that I had a copy of PM8, and located ptedit32.exe & changed Part3 to "0C" - reboot & voila!  XP now "sees" that partition and Ghost Enterprise 8.x recognizes the fi.gho file & can extract from it.  Burning to DVD now... I might just replace the fi.com in that partition w/the one I've rebuilt just as you mentioned - since I now have a backup of the image on DVD. (... yes... I will test it first!)

Looking at the partition, it is interesting to see how it all unfolds - leave it to Dell to come up with a proprietary solution to a relative simple task!
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print