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Ghost 2003 (Read 13937 times)
Robert Cartladge
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Ghost 2003
May 21st, 2006 at 12:20pm
 
I've been using ghost 2003 with success for about five months.i can easily make an image of C: on to a logical partition and I can do the same to an external USB HD but only slowly( 2hours for 4GB) because I started from the standard boot disc which I think uses USB 1.1 drivers.Today I thought I would have a go at creating the two disk boot discs with USB 2 drivers and get a bit of speed.The first disc hangs at a message giving me a choice of carrying on with the ghost operation or returnig to windows it sits there with a flashing cursor.Exactly the same  happens if I boot from the ghost CD, and again if I invoke ghost from windows,I can never get it to carry on although I have specified drivers and compression.I can't decide what I am doing wrong sure it must be something simple.I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
Robert (Celeron D 2.66Ghz - XP home - 256 RAM - 80GB HD)
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #1 - May 21st, 2006 at 2:01pm
 
Quote:
"... it sits there with a flashing cursor..."

USB 2.0 can create such grief as shown below when either its software host and/or device controllers - or both - are incompatible with Norton Ghost 2003:

...

You certainly have come to the right forum if your difficulty turns out to be USB-related.  And, if such is the case, then the make and model of your external HDD would be very useful.

EP
Cry
 

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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #2 - May 21st, 2006 at 4:36pm
 
Robert Cartladge

Need some clarification:

Quote:
Today I thought I would have a go at creating the two disk boot discs with USB 2 drivers and get a bit of speed.

Ghost 2003 boot floppy for the Standard Boot Disk can have either USB 1.1 or 2.0--but it will be a single boot disk--it's not until you add Firewire, networking, and/or CD/DVD optical drive support that you then need a two boot floppy set.  So what's different about this boot disk set from your original USB 1.1 boot disk?

Quote:
The first disc hangs at a message giving me a choice of carrying on with the ghost operation or returnig to windows it sits there with a flashing cursor.

So, it asks for the second floppy disk with *ghost.exe* on it, you put that disk in, hit enter, but nothing happens?

Quote:
Exactly the same  happens if I boot from the ghost CD, and again if I invoke ghost from windows,I can never get it to carry on although I have specified drivers and compression.

Hmmmm....there would be no second step of switching disks or specifying the drive letter of the CD-Rom you booted from when setting up the Ghost procedure in the Windows GUI and then Ghost boots to DOS in the virtual partition--so the response can not be *exactly* the same.

Is your USB controller and external HDD both USB 2.0--or is the controller possibly USB 1.x--all of your hardware has to be USB 2.0 in order to use the USB 2.0 driver successfully--the 2.0 driver can not make a 1.x hardware operate at 2.0 speeds.
 

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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #3 - May 21st, 2006 at 7:28pm
 
NightOwl wrote on May 21st, 2006 at 4:36pm:
"... Is your USB controller and external HDD both USB 2.0--or is the controller possibly USB 1.x--all of your hardware has to be USB 2.0 in order to use the USB 2.0 driver successfully--the 2.0 driver can not make a 1.x hardware operate at 2.0 speeds..."

Hmm - if such is the case, then a PCI-to-USB2 host controller card would address that issue - but I would strongly advise procuring a card that is NEC-compliant (as opposed to being compliant with ALi, SiS, or VIA).

CLICK HERE for a card proven to be Ghost 2003-friendly. 

EP
Cry
 

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Robert Cartladge
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2006 at 1:35pm
 
First of all many thanks to El_Pescador and Nightowl for the prompt replies which have I think pointed me in the right direction.
Night owl.
1) I don't know why I was prompted to make two boot discs,I have just gone back and tried again and have made one disc only and it seems to be OK.
2) When Ghost hung yesterday it didn't ask for the second disc although I did put it in and press"enter" again with no result.
3) As far as I can tell everything is USB 2.

El_Pescador.
Your first reply may be one solution,the USB connectors are on the motherboard.
Once again thankyou both I think (fingers crossed) I can make progress.
Robert.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2006 at 2:08pm
 
Quote:
"... I think (fingers crossed) I can make progress..."

CLICK HERE for background on USB host and device controller matters as related to Norton Ghost 2003 that might be helpful.

EP
Cry
 

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Robert Cartledge
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #6 - May 23rd, 2006 at 1:23pm
 
That's an interesting link which I will come back to this weekend when I have had time to evaluate the new ghost boot disc + USB 2 drivers.I don't know the maker of my USB 2 enclosure it was bought here  in UK at Maplin and came with a CD for a program called "Quicksync" of apparently Chinese origin (I doubt I'll be using it).I can see that I might have to reformat the external HD as FAT 32 but will see about that later.
Robert Cartledge.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #7 - May 23rd, 2006 at 2:30pm
 
Quote:
"... I don't know the maker of my USB 2 enclosure... I might have to reformat the external HD as FAT 32 but will see about that later..."

You very well may be running at USB 1.1 speeds, but as mentioned above you have indeed come to the right place for counseling on resolving such aggravation.  As an aside, my experience has been that rates of both
Ghost 2003 Backup
and
Restore
procedures are quite closely equivalent, and I would expect at least 350-to-550 MB/min midway in a transfer with USB 2.0 while going in either direction provided the PC is not antiquated.

Knowing the file system formats - NTFS or FAT32 - on all partitions/logical drives of both the typical PC MASTER HDD in the series and the External HDD will be most helpful, as is the class of processor which thankfully we already know.

The first table below illustrates USB 2.0 host controller specifications while the second does likewise for USB 2.0 device controllers.  Providing you are running XP Service Pack 1 or better, how about performing some trials for us and reporting back with specifications from your typical rig and the external HDD?

...

...

From what I can tell up to now, USB 2.0 host controllers for desktop PCs have eventually shaken out to either
VID=8086h
or
VID=1033h
- and no other thusfar.  So, what I am now able to do with a fair degree of certainty is counsel someone as to: (1) whether or not they will need a PCI-to-USB Host Adapter Card despite having USB 2.0 ports on their systemboard - and which model cards are compliant with Ghost 2003 operations; and (2) whether or not adopting NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Drivers routine will render their hitherto incompatible external enclosure kit Ghost 2003-compatible.

On the host end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing either the word
'Enhanced'
or the abbreviation
'USB2'
.  Knowing the particulars of your
USB 2.0 host controller
is critical, so by following the procedure below such will become evident:

(1) go to Desktop and right click on My Computer;

(2) drop down to left click on Manage;

(3) in left pane, expand System Tools;

(4) in left pane, drop down to left click on Device Manager;

(5) for both USB controllers and mass storage Devices in right pane, expand Universal Serial Bus controllers;

(6) for USB Mass Storage Devices, skip down to (7) -
else
for USB 2.0 controllers, focus on those lines containing either the abbreviation
'USB2'
or the word
'Enhanced'
then go to (7);

(7) right click on any such lines that drop down, then left click on Properties;

(8) left click on the Details tab;

(9) left click on the dropdown menu containing Device Instance Id; and

(10) left click on
Hardware Ids
and carefully transcribe the last two lines in the window. To be overly generous, drop down two more lines and repeat for
Matching Device Id
.

While the image below is set to reveal the functional USB 2.0 controller on the Macally PHR-100A external HDD enclosure kit, take note that right above the red arrow is one of my Dell Dimension 8300's three
'Enhanced'
USB controllers - the Intel 80281EB is integrated into the motherboard while the other two are on PCI-to-USB host adapter cards:

...

If we are aware of what is both on the host end and on the device end of your USB 2.0 "bridge", then our knowledge base certainly increases while at the same time we hopefully are assisting you.  

EP
 

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Robert Cartledge
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #8 - May 25th, 2006 at 1:57pm
 
Here are the results.
for mass storage devices device instance ID
USB\Vid_07ab&Pid_fc03&Rev_1110
USB\Vid_07ab&Pid_fc03

USB\Vid_07ff&Pid_00ff&Rev_0000
USB\Vid_07ff&Pid_00ff

for matching devices
usb\class_008&subclass_06&prot_56
usb\class_08&subclass_06&pcat_50

for USB 2 controllers
PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&SUBSYS_3104184&REV_86
PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&SUBSYS_31041849

PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&CC_0C032D
PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&CC_0C03

and for matching devices
pci\ven_1106&dev_3104

I hope this means something to you (but not to me)

You seem to be taking an enormous amount of trouble with this. Thanks
Robert.

(Edit by NightOwl--I got rid of all the *empty space*)
7
subsys


-31041849
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #9 - May 25th, 2006 at 4:00pm
 
Robert Cartledge

What I'd like to know, did your USB controller show up with the word *Enhanced* associated with it?
 

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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #10 - May 25th, 2006 at 7:48pm
 
El_Pescador wrote on May 21st, 2006 at 7:28pm:
"... a PCI-to-USB2 host controller card would address that issue - but I would strongly advise procuring a card that is NEC-compliant (as opposed to being compliant with ALi, SiS, or VIA)...

PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104="VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller" is VIA-compliant (as opposed to being NEC-compliant).  You definitely have a USB2 host controller, but unfortunately not one that is Norton Ghost 2003-friendly.

Hopefully, it can be coaxed into responding with NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine; but if not, then a NEC-compliant PCI-to-USB host adapter card should be considered.

EP
Cry
 

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Robert Cartledge
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #11 - May 26th, 2006 at 1:26pm
 
Thankyou,I will eventually do something about either the improved driver or a different USB 2 card.
Robert Cartledge.
 
 
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Robert Cartledge
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #12 - May 27th, 2006 at 12:27pm
 
El_Pescador.
As my last post on this subject you might like to add the make of motherboard I'm using to ypur database for future reference. It's an Asrock 775VM800 with a Celeron D 2.66,
80 Gb HD, and 256 Mb RAM running XP Home.
Thanks again. Robert Cartledge.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #13 - Jul 8th, 2006 at 2:05pm
 
There's a happy ending to this thread.I eventually decided to get a PCI USB 2 card with NEC chipset (£13 here in UK) and installed it this evening.I tried it with a fresh ghost boot disc with USB 2 drivers and Ghost imaged on to my external HD about 5000 Mbytes at 300 Mbytes / minute at fast compression in approx 16 minutes,,a great contrast to the previous time of almost 2 hours.Thanks again to night owl and El_Pescador
Robert Cartledge.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003
Reply #14 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 1:45pm
 
One last observation,ghost 2003 seems to be fussy about what else is plugged in to the USB card.I recently tried to repeat my success of a few weeks ago and the Iomega drivers would not proceed ,then I realised that when things did work I only had the external USB HD connected,on removing a USB hub and a USB CD rewriter Ghost found the external HD again.
 
 
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