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Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista (Read 229845 times)
John.
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #60 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 8:31pm
 
I hope all of you have better luck in purchasing Symantec Solution Suite 2.0 than I did:

From reading the website, I believe that you need to purchase the server software as well as the $39.20 client software.  My goal was simple--find out if that was true, and if true, how much the server software costs.  It is hard for me to believe that the server software is free (for the cost of 5x$39).  After all the manual is 700+ pages long.  No one gives away software with a 700 page manual for $39!

OK, so I called the small business number for Symantec, listed on their website.  After 3 calls, punch-this-for-that dept., numerous transfers, 2 disconnects, and re-dials (which got me someone's voice mailbox), I was told that Symantec doesn't sell it, and can't answer my simple question.  It is only sold by an authorized Reseller.

Now more phone calls, transfers, music-on-hold, etc. etc. to a "reseller".  Then I was told they were having "problems" transferring me and try and call back tomorrow.

You guys try it for yourself, if you want some self-punishment.  I give up!   Angry

After spending 50 minutes in phone-hell, I don't think they really want my business.

I hope their technical support is better than their sales support, (but not holding my breath).
 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #61 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 10:49pm
 
John. wrote on Mar 6th, 2007 at 8:31pm:
"... It is only sold by an authorized Reseller..."

CLICK HERE to purchase the OLP licenses
only
Roll Eyes  An OLP license - or 'open license' - is an electronic software license registered to a specific end user.  This type of license is delivered electronically via eMail.

CLICK HERE to purchase the 'media kit'
only
Shocked  I gather that the 'media kit' is analogous to the installation CD that comes in a boxed retail copy of a Symantec Consumer product.  If the five users were under a single roof, then one would need to purchase five OLP licenses and one media kit.

EP
Cry
 

...
WWW  
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John.
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #62 - Mar 7th, 2007 at 4:17am
 
Quote:
CLICK HERE to purchase the OLP licenses   An OLP license - or 'open license' - is an electronic software license registered to a specific end user.  This type of license is delivered electronically via eMail.

I found a wealth of information and an active GSS 2.0 support forum here:

https://forums.symantec.com/syment/board?board.id=109

 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
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adenewton
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #63 - Mar 7th, 2007 at 2:06pm
 
Brian wrote on Mar 5th, 2007 at 3:04pm:
This is about cloning and multi-booting but there was discussion about those edits in the BootIt forum at one stage. They said make the edits before imaging. I don't know if it's relevant for you but if you have time, would you like to try? I may be on the wrong track.

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/cloning.html



Forget Ghost Solution Suite 2 guys, because this worked.

If your ghosting a vista image to a disk that has already had vista running on it, then you can use Ghost 2003 DOS version as normal.

If however your moving ghost to another hard drive, do the following from the command line (make sure you right click the command prompt icon and choose 'run as administrator')

and run these commands one after the other:

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {default} device boot
bcdedit /set {default} osdevice boot

I just successfully copied my Vista image from one hard drive to a completly blank drive without partitions etc and then successfully booted from it.

 Grin
 
 
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Rama
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #64 - Mar 7th, 2007 at 3:18pm
 
From what I see on symantec website, the suite is designed for a network with a number of computers and of course ghost32.exe is included in it so that it can be run from BartPE or WinPE. I hope  ghost32.exe latest version has some enhancements to address issues relating to Vista.
 
 
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Fonk
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #65 - Mar 8th, 2007 at 9:06am
 
adenewton wrote on Mar 7th, 2007 at 2:06pm:
Forget Ghost Solution Suite 2 guys, because this worked.

If your ghosting a vista image to a disk that has already had vista running on it, then you can use Ghost 2003 DOS version as normal.

If however your moving ghost to another hard drive, do the following from the command line (make sure you right click the command prompt icon and choose 'run as administrator')

and run these commands one after the other:

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot
bcdedit /set {default} device boot
bcdedit /set {default} osdevice boot

I just successfully copied my Vista image from one hard drive to a completly blank drive without partitions etc and then successfully booted from it.

 Grin


And what if you had XP on the same drive and partition aswell?

Is the MBR correct updated one way or the other way around.

So having first installed ever XP, then ghost that version, than format, then install on the same partition Vista.

Image with a version of ghost, format the partition and reset from dos?

This works??

I think moste users have had XP on there partitions and overwrite it (format) the same to have there Vista.

A totally new unused harddisk might have problems if i understand you correct.

This means MBR is not deleted after a format?

Sorry i am a bit confused
 
 
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Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #66 - Mar 8th, 2007 at 12:13pm
 
For more information on the “bcdedit procedure” described in Reply #63, see this link that was posted in Reply #4.

Question:  What precisely are these bcdedit commands doing – and why are they necessary when using Ghost 2003 in conjunction with Windows Vista?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #67 - Mar 8th, 2007 at 1:07pm
 
Pleonasm

Google Search:  *bcdedit.exe*--Boot Configuration Data Editor


Boot Configuration Data Editor Frequently Asked Questions


Quote:
What is the BCD store?

The Boot Configuration Data (BCD) store
contains boot configuration parameters and controls how the operating system is started in Microsoft® Windows Vista
™ and Microsoft® Windows Server® Code Name "Longhorn" operating systems.
These parameters were previously in the Boot.ini file (in BIOS-based operating systems)
or in the nonvolatile RAM (NVRAM) entries (in Extensible Firmware Interface–based operating systems).


 

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Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #68 - Mar 8th, 2007 at 3:16pm
 
NightOwl, we think alike.  I actually did search for information on BCDEdit prior to posting Reply #66, but was unsuccessful in finding anything on the web that explained (at least to me) what the series of three commands listed in Reply #63 was actually accomplishing.  Stated differently, what is the specific “problem” that these commands are “fixing”?

Do these edits to the BCD have any unintended consequences to the running of the Windows Vista PC?

Does a user need to “undo” the BCD edits after the image backup is created by Ghost 2003?  Why or why not?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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nbree
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #69 - Mar 9th, 2007 at 6:34am
 
Pleonasm wrote on Mar 8th, 2007 at 3:16pm:
Stated differently, what is the specific “problem” that these commands are “fixing”?

By default, the BCD data doesn't use the BOOT.INI paths which refer to disk locations by drive and partition number. Instead, it refers to them the same way as HKLM\System\MountedDevices does, by disk signature and the byte offset into the disk.

Windows XP used to get really upset if you moved the boot partition because it believed the registry rather than the partition table. However, if you cleared the disk signature it would fall back to some sane code that re-read the partition table. The BCD system is similar in that it REALLY wants to believe its idea of the disk identity and partition table rather than the MBR and partition table. If things don't line up, it just throws its toys out of the cot and bluescreens.

Quote:
Do these edits to the BCD have any unintended consequences to the running of the Windows Vista PC?

As I understand it, all you're doing is telling it not to be so bloody stupid and to read the partition table rather than relying on the byte location of the boot volume.
 
 
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NightOwl
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #70 - Mar 9th, 2007 at 9:00am
 
Pleonasm

This may be informative:

Vista and Symantec Ghost 8.x


Quote:
An update on where things currently stand.

Indeed this appears to be a condition specific to the new BCD-based boot manager.  i.e. It's the boot manager failing to find and execute the Windows boot files under circumstances where Windows itself can otherwise successfully boot, and not a change to the boot configuration/dependencies of Windows itself.

(Windows of course also keeps partition and disk information of its own, even prior to Vista.  But in my experience this never resulted in a boot issue for the situation described, and Windows automatically updated and corrected if a different partition / disk signature was used.)

The cause of the Vista load failure previously described, to the degree I understand it, is that by default all of the BCD entries use "PARTITION"-type device references where applicable.  In the BCD data stored for these "PARTITION"-type device references (visible in the BCD section of the registry, and in a BCDEDIT /EXPORT), both the drive signature and the partition number appear to be part of the information stored.  And based on the results, both must match the current environment else the boot manager will declare the OS loading application cannot be found.

(Even if I force the drive signature to be the correct signature, if I'm restoring to a different partition than the image was previously using, the restored partition will still fail to boot because the partition number stored in the BCD still doesn't match the current environment.)

The solution that appears to be most suitable (at least for the situation I previously described and was intending to solve) is to change the BCD entries to use "BOOT" device references rather than explicit "PARTITION"-based references.
 Presumably thereby implying "whatever device/partition I booted from, that is the device/partition I want to use".

Preparing a Vista installation prior to creating the Ghost image then becomes a task of setting the DEVICE and OSDEVICE entries of the BCD entries you intend to use:

Logon as Administrator and from a command prompt invoke the following changes:
BCDEDIT /set {bootmgr} device boot
BCDEDIT /set {default} device boot
BCDEDIT /set {default} osdevice boot

Note you can "fix" a previously restored (and currently failing to boot) installation using a PE boot disc and executing these same actions against the restored partition's BCD entries.

There may be more entries that you need to fix if you intend to use them ({memtest}, {legacy}, etc.).  The above is just the minimum for my own scenario where there is just a clean Vista-only OS installation on the partition.

Once the BCD entries are no longer referring to specific disk signatures and partition numbers, there is no need to use -FDSP with Ghost anymore, either.  The disk signature can be reset as it is by default with a Ghost disk restore, and "nothing special" is required during image creation or restore (from a Ghost perspective).


Presumably this could have also been corrected by resetting/updating the "PARTITION"-type device entries with current information (current partition number and disk signature) post-Ghost restore, if for any reason the use of "PARTITION"-type references is needed.  For the purposes of making an image that can be restored via Ghost to any partition on my test box, the "BOOT" device reference appears most desirable by not being fixed to any one partition or disk signature.

Happy booting.

-Alan


I'm betting that the new *BCD-based boot manager* in Vista is in preparation for the upcoming hardware based security measures that have previously been mentioned that are coming.

It sounds like the edits above make the Vista Boot Mgr *act* more like the old *boot.ini*--for now that's probably okay because there are probably few, if any, hardware systems that have implemented the hardware locked security measures as yet.

We'll have to see if the Boot Mgr edits *breaks* or effects the hardware security once it starts coming online with new systems.
 

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Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #71 - Mar 9th, 2007 at 1:05pm
 
Nbree and NightOwl, your posts (Reply #69 and #70) are extremely informative, and I am confident that the entire Ghost 2003 community will find them to be of benefit.

NightOwl, your warning about potential problems through the BCDEdit procedure with forthcoming hardware-based security measures (e.g., Trusted Platform Module) is interesting.  Microsoft must have had a reason for the approach they adopted, and circumventing their “standard” could prove to be a source of difficulty in the future.

Additionally, for those who prefer a DOS-based approach to backup images, note that TeraByte Unlimited replied to an inquiry I initiated and confirmed that its “Image for DOS” product is compatible with Windows Vista.  I personally have not used this tool, and thus cannot comment on its operation.

Readers of this thread may also wish to look at Norton Ghost 12 (which will be Windows Vista compatible, when released in late April, 2007).
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #72 - Mar 10th, 2007 at 2:52am
 
John. wrote on Mar 6th, 2007 at 8:31pm:
From reading the website, I believe that you need to purchase the server software as well as the $39.20 client software. [...] It is hard for me to believe that the server software is free (for the cost of 5x$39).

Just to be absolutely clear, there is no separately purchased server software, and if there's something on the Symantec website implying that then it'd good to know where it is so we could correct it; the client licenses (which you can buy through the Symantec online store just fine without a reseller) really is all there is. Installing the server is just something you do in order to make use of the client licenses.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #73 - Mar 10th, 2007 at 4:03am
 
Pleonasm wrote on Mar 9th, 2007 at 1:05pm:
Additionally, for those who prefer a DOS-based approach to backup images, note that TeraByte Unlimited replied to an inquiry I initiated and confirmed that its “Image for DOS” product is compatible with Windows Vista.

The other TeraBytes products, Image for Windows, Image for Linux and BootIt NG are also "Finalized for Vista". BootIt NG has a "BCD Editor".

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2/11 and   Vista
Reply #74 - Mar 12th, 2007 at 2:56pm
 
I recently had a chance to make a cursory review of  Symantec Solution Suite 2.0 which is claimed to be compatible with Vista. The heart of the program still are enterprise versions of GHOST32.EXE (Windows) and GHOST.EXE (DOS). The latest versions are called 11.0. From the user interface it looks like there may be some minor program enhancements which are not obvious to the user. Long time Ghost end users may like to use the new version imbedded into WinPE or BartPE to image and restore Vista drives.  I will not be surprised if the next version of Norton Ghost as well as Save and Restore which will work with Vista may contain the above programs as part of the bootable restore CD. 
 
 
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