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Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista (Read 230055 times)
Pleonasm
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #75 - Mar 13th, 2007 at 10:17am
 
Rama, users of the beta version of Norton Ghost 12 have reported that the product does not contain a mechanism (e.g., Ghost 8.2 or Ghost 2003) to create/restore .GHO images.  We’ll need to wait and see whether or not this capability is also absent from the final production release, but its exclusion from the beta version suggests that it won’t be present in the finalized product.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2/11 and Windows Vista
Reply #76 - Mar 13th, 2007 at 12:22pm
 
Pleo, thanks for the info. The fact that Ghost32 and Ghost (DOS) continue to be inside the Enterprise version GSS 2.0 is good news, as these versions are not going to be abandoned even though not bundled inside consumer versions of Ghost.

I only hope Symantec sells these two programs along with Ghost Explorer for user like those who are on this forum as well as technicians who provide support to business and consumer computer users.

By the way, one issue I noticed is how the virtual disks in Vista are going to be imaged by Ghost for retrieval purposes?

 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/GSS2.0 and Windows Vista
Reply #77 - Mar 14th, 2007 at 7:14pm
 
El_Pescador wrote on Mar 6th, 2007 at 10:49pm:
CLICK HERE to purchase the OLP licenses
only
Roll Eyes  An OLP license - or 'open license' - is an electronic software license registered to a specific end user.  This type of license is delivered electronically via eMail.

CLICK HERE to purchase the 'media kit'
only
Shocked  I gather that the 'media kit' is analogous to the installation CD that comes in a boxed retail copy of a Symantec Consumer product.  If the five users were under a single roof, then one would need to purchase five OLP licenses and one media kit.

EP
Cry



Here is an interesting clarification on the licenses I found on the Symantec Ghost Enterprise forum.


That said, having been around Ghost since before Symantec owned it, Ghost has always been licensed on the basis of client computers, never on the basis of servers. Although the console has been part of "Ghost" the product since version 6.0, Ghost has always been licensed on the basis of client machines, and at least part of that is because a good many of the customers who purchase the product never actually used the console part, just the classic Ghost.exe and GhostSrv.exe.

[ In fact, the percentage of customers who used the console versus those who bought licenses just to run Ghost.exe/GhostSrv.exe to image machines by hand was always a subject of some debate here at Ghost HQ. ]

The end result of having the product be licensed around Ghost.exe rather than around the console is that as long as you have a license covering a client, you're set. The console's enforcement of license limits isn't oriented around multiple installations, but our intention was that customers should be able to install multiple servers if the shape of their network demands it.

As long as the total number of clients in your company is under the number of licenses you have purchased, then you're fine.

[ If you could actually buy servers separately from clients it might be a different matter, but since at present you can't buy servers, only clients, it's hard to imagine any other interpretation.]



It looks to me that five of us can form a joint venture and purchase five clients, and each client installed on individual machines. Each one will have a legit copy to work with. If you ask the sales people who are not used to deal with this kind of  complex arrangement, we will get conflicting or "No" answers.


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Re: Ghost 2003/GSS2.0 and Windows Vista
Reply #78 - Mar 15th, 2007 at 8:18pm
 
Rama wrote on Mar 14th, 2007 at 7:14pm:
Here is an interesting clarification on the licenses I found on the Symantec Ghost Enterprise forum.

What follows are personal observations only.

Having been dragged into this somewhat by having my text quoted above, let me point out that I wasn't speaking to the legalities of the EULA there, nor specifically to the situation you have in mind.

Now, something we here at Ghost HQ do know is that GSS is sometimes purchased by consultants who divide the GSS licenses they purchase amongst their customers.

Whether it's within the terms of the EULA in various countries, I don't know. It certainly isn't strictly within the intent of the approach we took to license enforcement, but that's because we simply didn't consider that situation. Nonetheless, it has happened, and since we want to treat all customers well we don't use it as an excuse to deny support (given that we're not paid to actually give any on our forums anyway, it's something we do unpaid out of a moral sense of responsibility).

Something to consider is that a substantial fraction of the difference in pricing philosophy between corporate and consumer products is about support. The cost of support isn't really visible in boxed consumer products, but support costs are visible in the corporate world by first being partly unbundled, and partly in the hefty price breaks that corporate customers receive for large purchases of licenses.

Commercial consultancy-type or outsourcing-type situations don't, as a rule, upset that. They certainly have a large potential to in other ways, in terms of what happens when outsourcing relationships are terminated. But by and large, the consultant/outsourcing situations we've encountered don't destabilise the pricing/support equation - such third-party intermediaries are often very highly skilled, after all, and so their end customers and the vendor can end up benefiting from the arrangement.

Ultimately, what matters in business (and, it has to be said, in life) is having relationships that work for all the parties. It may not always be possible to put those relationships into ideal legal frameworks; those frameworks largely only exist to deal with the situation when the relationships no longer work, not to describe working relationships.

Also remember the distinctions between price, and value, and cost. Leaving aside the way that price influences the perception of value, a good working commercial relationship is one where the excess benefit - the difference between the value received and the cost of production - is shared.

Just bear these ideas in mind. GSS2 is priced as a corporate product, so an arrangement which makes Symantec bear consumer-level support costs (i.e., the company loses money and developers lose their jobs) is not a good idea.
 
 
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El_Pescador
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #79 - Mar 15th, 2007 at 10:46pm
 
Quote:
"... Just bear these ideas in mind. GSS2 is priced as a corporate product, so an arrangement which makes Symantec bear consumer-level support costs (i.e., the company loses money and developers lose their jobs) is not a good idea..."

To offset the downside of your closing comments, here is a kinky idea to kick about with your mates at work in days to come:  The Southwest Pacific once was - and perhaps still is - the site for native Melanesian 'Cargo Cults' who have mystical notions about Uncle Sam returning in the sweet bye and bye to once again rain down largesse from the skies.

Sooo, consider the evidence that you chaps involved with the Enterprise aspect of Ghost perhaps in turn have a modest - and albeit farflung - 'Cargo Cult' counterpart of your very own.  I daresay they appear to be a very enterprising cult at that.  Dudes who go so far as to strip installation CDs of the boxed retail version of Norton Ghost 10 to render the essential legacy Norton Ghost Version 8.2 elements -
restoreghost.exe
which they knowingly rename
ghost32.exe
in addition to
ghostexp.exe
.  They have even gone so far as to incorporate these essential components of the "cold-imaging" Ghost Ver 8.2 into rather elegant bootable Reatogo-X-PE CDs running in the Windows XP Preinstalled Environment as depicted below, and which from at least one perspective are able to emulate Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 1.0 itself.

Please understand that they not only yearn for the absent
ghostcdr.exe
and
ghostsrv.exe
, but that they also fervently desire to gain the very latest issues of
ghost32.exe
and
ghostexp.exe
.


...

EP
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Rama
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Re: Ghost 2003/GSS2.0 and Windows Vista
Reply #80 - Mar 16th, 2007 at 12:23am
 
Quote:
What follows are personal observations only.

Having been dragged into this somewhat by having my text quoted above, let me point out that I wasn't speaking to the legalities of the EULA there, nor specifically to the situation you have in mind.

Now, something we here at Ghost HQ do know is that GSS is sometimes purchased by consultants who divide the GSS licenses they purchase amongst their customers.

Just bear these ideas in mind. GSS2 is priced as a corporate product, so an arrangement which makes Symantec bear consumer-level support costs (i.e., the company loses money and developers lose their jobs) is not a good idea.



Glad to see your post. Many members here are seasoned computer users, some of whom will match the skills of any developer in the world. Most members here are experienced users who rarely need much of any vendor support on their products, unlike traditional end user. The intent of most users in this board is to purchase and possess legit copies of all software they a need for their use.  They do understand that such user support to vendors is needed for the software companies to be in business and bring out updated and improved products to the market, which in turn benefits both the vendor and the user. In addition, vendors should recognize there are several levels of end users -- from novices to software/hardware Gurus.

Having said that, when a piece of software has been developed and there is a segment of users are able and willing to buy them at a competitive price (so that they possess and use a legal copy), it is to the vendor's and user's benefit to make the product available for sale at a reasonable price.  In the market such as the members we are discussing here do not require any expensive marketing or expensive and attractive packaging normally needed for traditional end users who buy from retail and mail order outlets. This segment will find out about the products very quickly and easily and vendors realize significant amount of cost savings from marketing and merchandising expenses, thus help their bottom line and keep the developers employed and keep improving the products and bring new innovative products. It is a win-win situation all around, only if the vendors pay attention to this market.

When vendors make it difficult, very expensive  or impossible for the users to purchase a product which they really need to help them in their application, innovative user will always find a way to get hold of the product, in any way they can. The users should not be put into such a situation, because it does no good to the vendor and perhaps result in lost revenue, with the potential loss of developer jobs.

I think we are in such a situation regarding GSS. For many users on this forum, just the ability to purchase individual clients (not in multiples of 5 or more) at a reasonable and affordable price by download would meet their needs. So my suggestion to you is to pass on this msg up the corporate marketing ladder so that we can all have a happy resolution to the current situation. 



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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #81 - Mar 16th, 2007 at 4:05am
 
El_Pescador wrote on Mar 15th, 2007 at 10:46pm:
I daresay they appear to be a very enterprising cult at that.

Heh. I have the highest regards for you all. You guys rock.  If you gentlemen were to form a consortium, you'd have the ability to look after yourselves, and that would be fine; just understand that it wouldn't be fine on a larger scale, OK?

As to selling classic Ghost more widely, you're talking to the wrong guy. We who make the product are passionate about it, and believe in it - but decisions about what to sell are made by VPs, not by technical people.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #82 - Mar 16th, 2007 at 8:18am
 
Quote:
As to selling classic Ghost more widely, you're talking to the wrong guy. We who make the product are passionate about it, and believe in it - but decisions about what to sell are made by VPs, not by technical people.


Like you, we are all passionate about good software, that is why we want to own legit copies not bootlegged ones!, thus support software companies and in turn developers.

We all understand how marketing decisions are made in large corporations; many here have worked/working for them. Hopefully someone who has the ear of these VPs points to them one more opportunity to expand the market, by making the software easily accessible to those who want it and have the technical ability to use them. It would be a win-win situation all around.

Do you think posting some of the marketing issue related msgs on the symantec forum may help?


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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #83 - Mar 21st, 2007 at 10:51am
 
Although I too would prefer that Symantec make available the sale of individual Ghost 11/Ghost Solution 2.0 licenses (because consumer choice is good), I can easily see why it is not in the best interests of the company to do so.

Despite the fact that many who visit this forum would not require support from Symantec for the use of Ghost 11/GSS 2.0, that set of individuals is clearly not representative of the larger PC population.  If Ghost 11/GSS 2.0 were to circulate among general PC users, then Symantec would need to train and equip their consumer support personnel to handle the load, which could be quite significant and which could quickly erode the entire profit margin.  (Remember:  the Ghost 11/GSS 2.0 manual is in excess of 700 pages!)

Additionally, each individual sale of Ghost 11/GSS 2.0 'cannibalizes' a sale of Norton Ghost 12, which is likely at a higher price point and therefore contributes more profit margin.

Perhaps more fundamentally, though, the entire category of image backup tools is entering a commoditization stage of its lifecycle, in which differences between tools are becoming minimized, in my opinion.  For an individual PC user in particular, it is difficult to make a logical argument for needing Ghost 11/GSS 2.0 when so many excellent competitive products exist that perform the same work.  Yes, I understand that individuals have emotional preferences, and I know that in some very limited situations there may exist some unique feature that dictates the use of one tool over another, but in general the class of image backup tools is evolving toward functional equivalency.

Should an individual PC user care whether or not Ghost 11/GSS 2.0 is available as separate license purchase?  I think not, simply because the task of creating/restoring a backup image can be done so well by any number of other tool options.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #84 - Mar 21st, 2007 at 11:37am
 
Pleonasm wrote on Mar 21st, 2007 at 10:51am:
Although I too would prefer that Symantec make available the sale of individual Ghost 11/Ghost Solution 2.0 licenses (because consumer choice is good), I can easily see why it is not in the best interests of the company to do so.


I still am a believer of a simple excellennt backup program at a very competitive price even with marginal free support will in the long run draw quite a following in todays world with every home, at least in the developed countries having more than one computer. I still recall the experience of Intuit's introduction of Quicken at a low price with no support ended up being a block buster. Due to the low price, there was no incentive to pirate copies and of course later on the company branched into other applications such as Quickbooks, Payroll, Turbotax. I am still optimistic that Symantec would consider selling single licenses of   "enterprise" version for consumers.

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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #85 - Mar 21st, 2007 at 12:22pm
 
Rama, I hope your prediction comes to pass.  Yet, I am quite pessimistic that the posts of a few PC users will persuade Symantec, for the reasons articulated in Reply #83.

From a business perspective, the key questions are:  How large is this market niche?  What marketing and sales expenses are required to penetrate it?  What are the associated costs-to-serve?  Can all this be done profitably?  Is this option more attractive than other alternatives?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #86 - Mar 26th, 2007 at 7:52am
 
I enjoy solving problems based on information found from web searches.  I only wish that I found this forum earlier.  

Currently, I have the following platform:
-      Dell Latitude D820
-      BartsPE with Norton Ghost 8.0 booting from a USB flash drive
-      Western Digital USB My Book which contains the following Ghost images:
      o      Drive image of only the Dell Diagnostics Partition and a blank formated Windows XP c drive
      o      Partition image of Windows XP
      o      Partition image of Windows Vista

The goal is to be able to easily save and restore either a Windows XP image or a Windows Vista image.  Ideally, I want three partitions on my C drive:  Dell Diagnostics, Operating System (either Windows XP or Windows Vista), Applications Data.

Typically, I have needed to delete the C drive partition, then format the C drive in order to successfully restore a Windows XP image.  Last night, I was able to repair my Windows Vista image when I restored it and got the file not found error, then was able to repair the Vista installation using the Vista installation discs.

There is a chance (possibly unrelated to the Vista and Ghost issues) that my earlier images were of a partition with index problems.  I saved new images this weekend.

Questions:
-      When or how often is it necessary to make the BCDEdit changes?  Currently, Windows Vista is restored to the hard drive.  
-      Where is the actual BCD data saved on the disk?

Path Forward to demonstrate the ability to restore either a Windows Vista partition image or a Windows XP partition image?

-      Make the BCDEdit changes as documented in previous replies.

-      Create a new Windows Vista partition image
-      Change the desktop, then create a 2nd Windows Vista partition image
-      Restore each Windows Vista partition image, keeping your fingers crossed

-      Restore Windows XP partition image (hopefully without having to format the c drive)

-      Restore Windows Vista partion image (hopefully without having to repair the installation)

Anyone have any other suggestions or ideas?  Thanks in advance for your help.
 
 
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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #87 - Apr 22nd, 2007 at 1:53pm
 
This is a very long thread and I know I've missed a lot of it, but as far as running two OS'z ......wouldn't it just be easier on the user and the equipment to just use two HD's???

That's what I do on my new computer, on which I'm testing Vista Ultimate 64.
Both my Vista HD (NTFS) and my XP HD (FAT-32) are plugged into two SATA II ports on my MSI AM2 mobo.  All I have to do, to change disks is stop the bootup at the boot screen  and select drive #2 instead of drive #1.  No biggie!

And OH, by the way, both HD's backup easily from my ghost 2003, build 793 boot floppy disk.

Cheers Y'all!
Doc  Cool

 

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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #88 - Apr 22nd, 2007 at 2:06pm
 
JJF, we all have our own preferences, but personally I would be inclined to choose an image backup program that is compatible with both Windows XP and Windows Vista and thereby avoid the convolutions.

You may also wish to explore the option of running Windows XP on a virtual machine inside of Windows Vista, now that Microsoft is providing Virtual PC 2007 for free.
 

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Re: Ghost 2003/Ghost 8.2 and Windows Vista
Reply #89 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 3:55pm
 
use Full Info :
now vista compatible ( 9th April 2007 ) a new version with Vista support.
http://home.eunet.no/pnordahl/ntpasswd/
to write the ISO use imgburne.exe it is easier than Nero
Regards Ben
PS
i can only log into this forum using IE 6 (microsoft) and not The latest Fire Fox !!
the log in and passwords are same.
I can not figure out what I am doing(done) wrong Regarding Fire Fox login memory cacheh ??
or where I can clear it and re enter the login and password again ???
regards Ben
Cry
 
 
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