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Error - Blue Screen of Death (Read 30862 times)
ollie90680
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #30 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 10:42am
 
I used Partition Magic to reformat the two partitions of Disk3 to NTFS. You raise a good point as I do not really know whether or not PM uses quickformat or full format, I would expect and hope for the latter, to do the format. Drive F chkdsk showed 85K of bad sectors. Since I had F&N backed up on TI I wasn't concerned with losing any data. Besides I can reinstall those programs from the original disks which I decide that I truly want and will do so on C where I have plenty of room. After I install these programs I can do an incrimental of NG10 on Drive C and all is well. But for drive F I will install something just to see if NG10 can back it up. If not I will remove all installed programs, remove all partitions, make one partition on Disk3, and refomat to EXT2 so that I can use it for Linux storage.

I haven't yet tried to 'ignore bad blocks' which you suggested so I also may give that a try. First I would like to exhaust all normal profiles.

Disk3 is a Seagate ST3300621A  30GB unformatted. I bought it a long time ago.

I remember that one of the programs, either TI or NG, was using F for temporary storage. I will have to go check that out. I am using my laptop right now so I will need to get back to you on it.


The enclosure was made by Accomdata and has the built in FW and USB2. Seems to be a quality product.

 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #31 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 12:25pm
 
Quote:
I haven't yet tried to 'ignore bad blocks' which you suggested so I also may give that a try. First I would like to exhaust all normal profiles. 

I wouldn't recommend that at this point.  That was back when you were just trying to get NG10 to finish.

Since you have nothing on Disk3 at this point, use the XP Disk Management tool to reformat it:
My computer/Right click/Manage/Disk Management

Select the drive/partition and right click for the options to delete partition, delete extended partition, etc until disk is empty.  Then reformat.

Be careful that you are selecting the correct disk drive you intend because there is no "undo" command. It's permanent!
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #32 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 12:30pm
 
ollie90680 wrote on Mar 16th, 2007 at 9:23pm:
Ghost4Me I want to thank you for hanging with me for so long. It has been real and I won't forget it. You guys have got a great forum here. I would only make one small suggestion; if it was devided into more topics it might be easier to navigate.  


This thead and your comments will be a good reference for anyone else to read regarding NAS and other related or not issues with firewire and defective sectors.

Until a few months ago, all of the Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 threads were mixed in with the main General Discussion board forum, which is primarily the DOS based Ghost 2003 program.  So I know the moderators are tweaking the forums to make them better.  I'm sure all comments are appreciated.

There's also the FAQ section with topics by product.

 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #33 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 8:51pm
 
I believe that you may have located a problem but I will need to do a little more investigation work. I'm not in any hurry anymore though as we have spent so much time on this and I need to address other things.

Last night I had the Big Blue Screen of Death again. Not the same error code as before either. Thing was that I had noticed earlier in the evening, when doing a backup with NG10, that it was taking too long to backup drive C to my USB2 drive G. So here I check on it and find that it has quit. Well I killed the system, but first turned off Disk3 (drives F/N), and went through a shutdown. Then I turned the system back on again and everything was cool. I started another NG10 backup of C because the other one had quit at 75%. This was blazing along just like I suspected it should have before. I do believe that there is something about Disk3 that is causing these problems when NG10 tries to run. I don't know if it is the Seagate disc or the interface but it is one of them. I will eventually place the drive into another interface and see what happens. If it does it with either the same enclosure or a different enclosure with the same drive I will know which one is the responsible party.

 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #34 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 9:40pm
 
If you suspect that the Seagate f/n external is interfering with your system, then leave it powered off especially when using Ghost 10.  Ghost enumerates all devices when it starts up.  Also, you should see the percentage completed in the Norton window as it progresses.  Also, if you are doing scheduled backups, then try manual ones instead;  scheduled backups are done through a Symantec service that is running.  With manual ones you see the progress.

You may need to analyze what else may be running or starting up on your pc.  One handy free utility is the Startup Control Panel:
http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml

You can see and then enable or temporarily disable any startup items.
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #35 - Mar 18th, 2007 at 11:58pm
 
Well that is just it, I have been leaving Disk3 off and have run successfully several manual and timed backups using NG10 without errors.  That would seem to point to the Seagate and/or its interface in the enclosure. Like I said I will test both and determine which is which but for now I am satisfied that taking the drive off the system will solve my problems with NG10.

I had also for a time wondered if there was some sort of interaction between TI and NG as TI puts what they call a Security Zone on the disk.  But no problems when the Seagate is off with backing up C:.

When I get around to testing the drive and interface I will get back to this thread and record the results.


 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #36 - Mar 19th, 2007 at 12:14am
 
This thread has been complex and I'm lost. Could someone kindly kick start my brain with a very short summary? Was the BSOD caused by a faulty external HD?
 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #37 - Mar 19th, 2007 at 8:57am
 
Brian wrote on Mar 19th, 2007 at 12:14am:
This thread has been complex and I'm lost. Could someone kindly kick start my brain with a very short summary? Was the BSOD caused by a faulty external HD?


Brian, nice to have a set of fresh eyes here.  I believe there have been several problems and we are just homing in on them one by one, but for my own benefit as well, here's a summary as I perceive it.

Disk1   C:    80GB    NTFS       internal
Disk2          20GB    ReiserFS  internal
Disk3   F:    18GB    FAT32     Firewire 400
         N:    10GB    FAT32     Firewire 400
Disk4  G:   500GB    NTFS      USB2
(Disk2 is for Suse Linux and not acknowledged by Windows.)

Presently, the 30 gb Disk3, which is firewire attached (Seagate hard drive in Acomdata enclosure), partition F: has bad sectors on it and we are unable to take full backup of F: to external usb2 G: drive (which is new).  Backup fails towards the end.  I have been encouraging moving data off of f: and n: and doing XP full reformat of the drive using XP Disk Manager (or discarding the drive).

f: also contains some programs which have to be uninstalled and reinstalled on c: internal.

The occasional Blue Screen of Death c000021a during boot startup is likely caused by some driver or system module.  Ollie, I suggest uninstalling ZoneAlarm, then download latest version of ZA and then do a CLEAN install of it.  Look on their website for instructions on how to do a full manual uninstall cleanup if needed.

I believe we have eliminated a lot of other configuration issues, but we may have missed something as well.  There may be some other background program or xp service runninng and interfering.

Ollie, please correct my summary or add to it.

Thanks Brian for any ideas and help.

-John-
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #38 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 11:24am
 
I did not recognize that the error Blue Screen of Death c000021a was infact related to the issue that I had been experiencing with NG10 (see "Where is my recovery Point??????" & "original files vs image files size" in this forum).  It happened to me when I was in the process of shutting down the system and therefore I disassociated it from NG10's problems. It has never repeated albeit I did get another "Blue Screen of Death" for a different reason during the running of NG10 later. There have been two such events but with different error codes.

I do not pretend to understand exactly what is happening but believe that Ghost's questions about running programs makes some sense as to the possibility of interaction with NG10. However, it also appears after running several instances of Disk3 being removed that there have not been any further occurances of NG10's failure to backup Drive C: .  

All attempts to understand what was happening with NG10 were explored including changing of the interface from FW to USB2 without change in behavior. More confusing is that Disk3 was divided into 2 partitiions; Drive F: and Drive N:. Drive N always backed up and Drive F: didn't complete either with FW or USB. Sometimes it didn't even complete Drive C: when the b/u profile included all three drives together. Separating into seperate profiles helped to make b/u on C and N. It was hard to understand that Disk3 may have been responsible since Drive N: was part of Disk3 and completed b/u ok. The one immutable fact is that NG10 errors have not been repeated with Disk3 disconnected. Maybe it is the drive or maybe it is the combo interface on the enclosure which includes FW and USB2. I intend to investigate this but have slowed down due to other issues which have priority. I will change the drive to an Adaptec enclosure I have and see if the drive still interferes and I will place another drive into the Accomdata enclosure and see if I can repeat the errors. But for now I am satisfied that I can make backups with NG10.
It has been a ride. I am grateful for this forum and its members who have patiently provided advice and assistance.

 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #39 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 12:15pm
 
I thought the Blue Screen of Death occurred when you first booted your computer.

ollie90680 wrote on Mar 14th, 2007 at 1:03pm:
I then tried to reboot the computer and was given the following error:
"c000021a unknown hard error" with the infamous BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH.


Maybe I misinterpreted and you were referring to shutting down in the statement above.  Do you have the second error message number from the BSOD.  I suspect ZoneAlarm though which is in essence a device driver and loads at startup.

All other evidence in my opinion still points to bad sectors in the f: partition:  When backing up "My Computer", all drives in one operation, that would be consistent with c: being ok, n: being ok, but when Ghost 10 tried f:, there were the sector errors, and it aborted.

Quote:
However, it also appears after running several instances of Disk3 being removed that there have not been any further occurrences of NG10's failure to backup Drive C: .    


If my theory is correct, then changing to an Adaptec enclosure won't help because you are still using the same Seagate drive and f: partition with defective sectors.  You will need to delete f: and n: partitions (use the XP Disk Manager tool), delete the extended partition, then use XP Disk Manager tool to create and full format the drive.  Or just discard the drive.

Quote:
But for now I am satisfied that I can make backups with NG10.  


Glad to hear that.  Bottom line sounds like when you do NOT use or backup f:, then Ghost 10 and everything works fine.  Will be interested to hear how it turns out when you get back this issue.
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #40 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 10:29pm
 
Ollie, there is an option in Ghost 9 and Ghost 10 to "ignore bad sectors during copy" that may be affecting the attempted backup of f: partition.

The option is in the "Advanced backup options" for the backup definition.  You can set it for the f: drive by modifying the backup-definition settings.

I'm not sure the long term implication of using this option.  I guess that if the bad sector is not in an active data file you're ok, but how one knows I don't know.
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #41 - Mar 21st, 2007 at 1:09am
 
Ghost after reading my original post I see that I was in error. I had problems with the unit, rebooted it, then had the error appear during reboot. Sorry about the confusion.
  It would appear that there is a very good chance that the bad sectors in F: may be responsible for my problems. The only way to know for certain is to eliminate all other possibilities i.e. the interfaces FW & USB2 by using another HD. I can't change anything before I can make the determination as it would tainte the results.
  Ignoring bad sectors has always struck me as a potential problem just for the reasons that you stated.
 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #42 - Mar 21st, 2007 at 9:05am
 
See this other recent thread regarding Error EC8F17B7

I'm not certain myself how Norton Ghost 9 and 10 handle bad sectors.  If they exist when the drive is first formatted, then as long as it is only a few, it is supposed to be normal for alternate sectors to be assigned, so that the user doesn't actually use the bad ones.

If bad sectors occur later with existing data on them (not unused) when trying to read a file, that is a different situation. 

Maybe Ghost gives the error message regardless.  Anyone with ideas or experience, please help.
 

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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #43 - Mar 22nd, 2007 at 2:58pm
 
Question: Is NG10's operation totally independent of the drive's parameters for bad sectors? Does it make use of the recorded errors to determine how it will make an image or does it just make an image of the entire formatted area of the disk?

When I read the message "Error EC8F1787" I couldn't help but draw parallels between some of his experiences and mine.

I replaced the Seagate drive in the Acomdata enclosure with a Conner and experienced much of the same type of behaviors that I had experienced although I did not do a backup. The drive seemed to have problems seeking and finding data. Sounded like lots of errors. This was using USB2 interface. I intend to place the drive in a ADS enclosure with USB2 interface and see if it continues. I tried to reformat Conner but it didn't complete the format. Seemed to just hang at the end.

 
 
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Re: Error - Blue Screen of Death
Reply #44 - Mar 22nd, 2007 at 4:32pm
 
ollie90680 wrote on Mar 22nd, 2007 at 2:58pm:
Question: Is NG10's operation totally independent of the drive's parameters for bad sectors? Does it make use of the recorded errors to determine how it will make an image or does it just make an image of the entire formatted area of the disk?

I don't know.  I started a different thread, How does Ghost 9/10 deal with bad-sectors?, but so far no one has answered.

I'm beginning to think from my Googling research, that if you have any defective sectors (whether used or not), you have to check the Norton Ghost 9/10 option to  "ignore bad sectors during copy" just to get Ghost to run.

I would say if you had 2 bad sectors when the drive is new, and it still has only 2 bad sectors, you're probably ok.  But if they number is growing, that is a bad omen.

Ghost is supposed to backup only sectors in use unless you check the other option to make a full/all sector backup.

Sure would be nice to be able to get some technical details from Symantec on this....  Angry
 

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