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will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys? (Read 32069 times)
Helen Monte
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will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Nov 14th, 2009 at 4:41am
 
Will the new disk boot after cloning only the Windows partition from a dual-boot system (i.e. multi-partitioned disk) ?

Summary:
I have an IBM disk that has, say, 2 partitions, one Mandrake Linux and another Windows XP.
1. I tried a disk-to-disk cloning using Ghost 11 to clone everything from my IBM IDE disk to a new Hitachi SATA disk.  I got an error in the process, I ignored it and I cannot boot from the new disk.  The boot manager does not show up on the screen and I got a bunch of 9's instead.
2. Since I never used that Linux partition, I am considering doing a partition-to-partition cloning of only my WinXP partition.  But I read something about a MBR, Master Boot Record. I am concerned that if I do not copy this MBR from my old disk to my new disk, my new disk won't boot.  If Ghost does copy this MBR in my cloning of the Windows partition, then this MBR would say something about a Linux patition or a dual-boot, and then it would not find the Linux partition on my new disk and I would have some trouble somehow.
Details:
1. The disk-to-disk cloning seems to be a success and I can see all my JPG photos etc in the new disk, except for the fact that I cannot boot from it, as described above.
The Ghost log file says this (you can see that I have a third Western Digital SATA disk):

*********************************
Date   : Fri Nov 13 01:20:36 2009
Error Number: (29003)
Message: Bad block(s) encountered on read: 0x1, drive:2, 1 sectors starting from absolute sector 0
Version: 11.0.2.1573 (Nov 14 2007, Build=1573)
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Command line arguments:
Active Switches :
       AutoName
PathName            :
DumpFile            :
DumpPos             : 0
FlagImplode         : 0
FlagExplode         : 0

Operation Details :
  Total size.........0
  MB copied..........0
  MB remaining.......0
  Percent complete...0%
  Speed..............0 MB/min
  Time elapsed.......0:00   
  Time remaining.....0:00   

Program Call Stack
AbortLog
Generic_Abort
ReadDiskSectorsNoOverlayTranslation
ReadDiskSectors
checkForDynamicPartitions
DynamicDiskDetect
LocalFindDiskType
GetLocalGeometryAndDiskType
GetGeometryAndDiskType
PaintDisplayDriveData
CopyDiskToDisk
CopyMainline
AttemptOperation
sub_main
main

Call Stack
Address            Frame              Logical Addr              Module
0x000000007c90e514 0x000000000012d2e8 KiFastSystemCallRet+0x0000000000000000
0x000000000012d5e8 0x0000000000000003 0x0000:0x0000000000000000
End Call Stack


Start heap available: 553357312
Cur   heap available: 493256704
Total Memory:         1073201152

Allocated
  33500 ..\ghost.cpp:1396
Free

Fat details:

NTFS details:
----------------

NTFS Global Flags:
----------------
      contiguousWrite=1 forceDiskClusterMapping=0
      inhibitCHKDSK=1 ignoreBadLog=0 ignoreCHKDSKBit=0
      enable_cache=0 xfrbuflen=0
      last_attr_type = 0
      loadExact = 0
----------------

Disk Error Details

Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.



Disk Info :
  remote.............0
  drive..............2
  sectorsUsedCount.......312560577
  estimatedUsedCount.....310902080
  numPartitions..............1
  Version............0

# Ord Boot Id Ext     First        Num       Last       Used NTFS
0  0    1   7 No         63  312560577  312560640  310902080 Yes

Disk Info :
  remote.............0
  drive..............0
  sectorsUsedCount.......0
  estimatedUsedCount.....0
  numPartitions..............0
  Version............0

# Ord Boot Id Ext     First        Num       Last       Used NTFS

Fixed Drives

Drive 0 IC35L060AVV207-0       VNVB01G2RBS1JH
WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            120103200
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       58644
Cylinders                7476
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      54

Drive 1 WDC WD1600JD-00HBB0      WD-WMAL93833260
WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            312581808
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       152627
Cylinders                19457
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      175

Drive 2 Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA
ASPI
Total Sectors            1250263728
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       610480
Successful IO Count      0
Error Count (bad media)  0
Error Count (other)      1
Last Error
Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.




WinNT (Active)
Total Sectors            1250263728
Bytes per Sector         512
MB                       610480
Cylinders                77825
Heads                    255
Sectors per Track        63
Successful IO Count      10
Error Count (bad media)  0
Error Count (other)      2
Last Error
Win32 error: (0x00000037)
The specified network resource or device is no longer available.
....
2. I never used that Linux partition; actually there is some error when I boot Linux up from the IBM disk. I never cared to fix it. So now I am considering cloning only the Windows partition.  But I don't know whether the MBR would be copied in the process.  If it is not copied, would BIOS (?) create a new MBR that boots (only) from the WinXP partition on the new disk?  I am planning to retire my IBM disk.
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #1 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 10:23am
 
@
Helen Monte

Welcome to Radified Forums.

I moved your post to this forum because your question applies to Ghost v11.xx, which is the Corporate version of Ghost that is based on the original DOS based Ghost.  You originally posted in the forum for the current retail versions of Ghost that are based on the DriveImage program by Powerquest--which was bought out by Symantec.  Symantec has muddied the waters by sharing the *same program name*, but the two programs are completely unrelated to each other!

You have several different issues that you will have to deal with based on what you have posted so far--and more information will probably be needed:

1. 

Quote:
I have an IBM disk that has, say, 2 partitions, one Mandrake Linux and another Windows XP.

In order to *dual boot*, you have to have a *boot manager* program of some type.  The one I hear talked about most often in conjunction with Linux is *Grub*.

I'm not a *dual boot* with Linux expert, so hopefully someone else can offer guidance here--but, we need to know the details of how your system is setup for dual booting and what flavor of boot manager you have installed.

2.

Quote:
1. I tried a disk-to-disk cloning using Ghost 11 to clone everything from my IBM IDE disk to a new Hitachi SATA disk.

Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from.

What exactly are you intending to do?  Ghost can copy a HDD with ease, but it is not a *migration tool*--meaning it is not intended to let you transfer your OS from one system to another system where the hardware has changed.

The WinXP OS on the ide IBM HDD will have one set of drivers for communicating with the HDD through a PATA IDE controller--but, it will not have the needed drivers to communicate with that same OS once it's on a SATA based HDD--completely different drivers--so even if you transfer the data from the IBM to the SATA HDD--booting will probably fail--unless other measures are taken!

3.

Quote:
I got an error in the process, I ignored it and I cannot boot from the new disk.


Quote:
Message: Bad block(s) encountered on read: 0x1, drive:2, 1 sectors starting from absolute sector 0

That's probably not a plan for success!  Any time an error is reported, that creates a high probability for failure!  Probably need to correct the *bad block(s)* error before continuing.  WinXP has a  *Check Disk* (or is it *Scan Disk*--can't remember!), or third party disk utilities like *Perfect Disk* or *Disk Keeper* can often help with these issues.  I think *PartitionMagic* (a partitioning tool) can also deal with *bad blocks or sectors*.

4.

Quote:
2. Since I never used that Linux partition, I am considering doing a partition-to-partition cloning of only my WinXP partition.  But I read something about a MBR, Master Boot Record. I am concerned that if I do not copy this MBR from my old disk to my new disk, my new disk won't boot.  If Ghost does copy this MBR in my cloning of the Windows partition, then this MBR would say something about a Linux patition or a dual-boot, and then it would not find the Linux partition on my new disk and I would have some trouble somehow.

If you remove the *boot manager* that has both the WinXP and Linux references so your system will boot only to WinXP, that will solve any problem with references to the Linux partition.

You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone--this will make the destination HDD such that it has just the WinXP partition taking up the whole disk.  But, the *boot.ini* file, which controls the boot process on a WinXP system telling the boot files where to find the boot partition for WinXP, will need to be pointing to the correct partition on the destination HDD--most likely it will after eliminating the boot manager that controls the dual boot with Linux, but that would have to be verified and adjusted if needed.

5.

Quote:
I am planning to retire my IBM disk.

Have you been having errors or other issues with the IBM disk?
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #2 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
I will collect more info this afternoon.  But for now, ...
2. I got confused with the word "system" you used. Why did you say "Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from"?  What makes it look like that way?  Why IBM is aka Hitachi? I bought this computer with the IBM disk installed inside it many years ago from an independent vendor.  I do not know whether the IBM disk was installed in a different computer before, if that was what you meant?  As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.  Maybe that's what you mean?
What I intend to do is to retire my IBM disk and use this Hitachi disk (and the Western Digital disk) from now on, booting up from the WinXP on the Hitachi disk.  You call it "migration" and Ghost is not for it?
5. By and large, I have not had any problem with the IBM disk except I am not able to boot up Linux.  I still can boot up WinXP from there and no data has ever been lost.  But now it (i.e. the Windows partition) is 99% full.
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #3 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 4:59pm
 
"it is not a *migration tool*--meaning it is not intended to let you transfer your OS from one system to another system where the hardware has changed."
Maybe I got the wrong impression of what Ghost can do.  Radified Guide page 4 says: "There is no reason to create an image of a drive/partition/disk other than the one containing your operating system. ... If for some reason (any reason), your system won't boot, and you can't figure out what in tarnation went wrong .. simply ... point-n-shoot.  ... It's better than Windows System Restore, which can't help you if your hard drive dies. ... The ability to restore my system .. no matter what went wrong ..  Ghost neutralizes any trepidation you might encounter when experimenting with new software or hardware ..."  It does not say I have to restore to the same (type of) hard disk.  To me, it says that if my hard disk, containing my OS, dies for any reason, including some permanent physical damage that it is no longer usable, I can restore the image to a new good hard disk.  Am I missing something?

 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 5:09pm
 
4. "You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone"
As Radified Guide page 14 says, "Notice that you cannot clone Partition -> To Disk, nor can you clone Disk -> To Partition. "
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 7:58pm
 
@
Helen Monte

Quote:
"Looks like you are attempting to do the cloning on a system that is not the original system that the IBM (aka Hitachi HDT721064SLA360 A3AA) HDD is from"?  What makes it look like that way?  Why IBM is aka Hitachi?


Well, your new information has changed some of my initial *assumptions* based on a quick review of the Ghost log file.  I misread the *error* message thinking it was coming from the IBM HDD--and I think *Hitachi* has bought out several of the IBM lines of HDDs--so thought the labeling and HDD ID were *mismatched*.

So, need to re-visit some of the statements I made:

But, before I do, let's look at your hardware setup closer so I don't make any more incorrect assumptions.

So, you have a system with 3 HDDs--drive 0 is the IBM, drive 1 is the WD, and drive 2 is the Hitachi.

And, apparently the IBM is an PATA IDE, and the Hitachi is a SATA.  So, what's the WD--SATA or PATA?

You must have a system that has both PATA and SATA controllers--correct?

Quote:
As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.

How do you boot to the WD copy of WinXP--do you change the boot order in the BIOS, or do you use a boot manager to select which OS to boot from during initial boot?

Is the WinXP on the WD HDD a *clone* of the WinXP that's on the IBM--or were they separate *clean installs*?

Quote:
What I intend to do is to retire my IBM disk and use this Hitachi disk (and the Western Digital disk) from now on, booting up from the WinXP on the Hitachi disk.  You call it "migration" and Ghost is not for it?


Depending on your answers above may influence the results of transferring you IBM based WinXP (PATA) to the Hitachi based (SATA) HDD! 

The real question--*Is WinXP able to handle switching from PATA to SATA controllers without additional intervention?*  Ghost will not make any changes to the WinXP drivers--it will simply copy the OS as it exists on the IBM PATA HDD and transfer it to the Hitachi SATA HDD.  Will WinXP be able to switch from one type of HDD controller driver to the other type--I don't know--certainly giving it a try will answer the question!!!

*Migration* of an OS usually means transferring an OS from one system to another with different hardware on each system.  But, you have *different* hardware on the *same system*--both PATA and SATA HDD controllers--so you may have to deal with the drivers not matching if you switch controller types.

Quote:
It does not say I have to restore to the same (type of) hard disk.  To me, it says that if my hard disk, containing my OS, dies for any reason, including some permanent physical damage that it is no longer usable, I can restore the image to a new good hard disk.  Am I missing something?

Yes, you can transfer it to any *new good hard disk*, but when the OS attempts to boot, will the necessary HDD controller drivers be available--if you have changed to a different (type of) hard disk!  The statement is absolutely correct if you replace an existing HDD with a similar HDD--it can be bigger or smaller than the original as long as the data will fit--but, if the type of HDD changes, then most bets are off--it may work--but may not!!!

Look here for more info:  Radified Guide to Norton Ghost, page 13--see *Restoring Image to/from different PC* at the bottom of the page.  So, the question becomes, are the differences great enough to make WinXP choke?!

Quote:
4. "You could then use Ghost to do a *Partition-to-Disk* clone"
As Radified Guide page 14 says, "Notice that you cannot clone Partition -> To Disk, nor can you clone Disk -> To Partition. "

My bad--the statement in the Guide is correct--if doing a *direct* clone from one drive to another.  I usually use *image files*--so I make an image and store it to an appropriate location.  Then I *clone* by restoring the image file to a new destination HDD.  If you do it this way, you can do what I said.  You would create the image of the disk with multiple partitions using *Local > Disk > To Image*.  Then you can do a restore *Local > Disk > from Image*.  You then select the image file.  It will then give you the partitions in that file.  If you select only the one partition if you wish, and then it will be restored to the entire destination HDD.
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #6 - Nov 14th, 2009 at 10:50pm
 
Yes, my system has 3 internal hard disks now: IBM IDE, Western Digital SATA, and Hitachi SATA.
WD is SATA.  My motherboard must have controllers for PATA and SATA because I can see the contents of all three disks.
And I think my Mandrake's dual-booter is LILO, not GRUB.
OK, I read Page 13 of the Radified Guide.  I am now inclined to think that the Guide needs to be rewritten and clarified. Page 14 should not depict such a rosy picture about Ghost and it should make reference to Page 13.  I mean, it says in Page 14 that if your hard disk dies for any reason, Ghost can save you the day.  Well, my IBM hard disk has lasted for like 8 years and my WD disk for about 5 years, if one day they die, it is likely that I am not able to replace them with very similar disks even if I want to.  If I need to take extra measures regarding these drivers, Registry, etc, in order to restore my system, then the benefit of Ghosting my disk is quite severely limited.  If I need to "bite the bullet and install Windows from scratch" as Page 13 suggests, then why would I use Ghost to back up the disk containing my OS?  Why not simply back up the data only?  What is the fundamental benefit of using Ghost as far as backing up the system (not distributing same software) is concerned?
Pgae 13 says "Suppose you get a new PC. You might want to avoid the the time it takes to re-install all your software programs and re-configure system settings by restoring the image of your old system to your new one.  ... I suggest you bite the bullet and install Windows from scratch."  If one is better off installing Windows from scratch, then why use Ghost to back up the system?  One cannot assume the user has a couple of the same hard disks sitting idle in stock so in case the one in use dies, he can replace it with an identical hard disk in order for Ghost to work, can one?
My friend suggested me instal WinXP from scratch to the Hitachi SATA, since I have the installation disk.  The purpose is to set up boot.ini, ntldr files, the mbr and a Windows partition. And then I do a partition-to-partition clone of my Windows partition from my IBM IDE to the Hitachi SATA.  (Then I don't need to worry about Linux.) Yes, it would overwrite the contents on the Hitachi but not the boot.ini, ntldr files, and mbr - hopefully. Would it work?  Still subject to the "similar hardware" requirement?  And this installation disk is not the same as the one I used to install the WinXP on my IBM disk some 8 years ago.
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:26am
 
@
Helen Monte

Quote:
Yes, my system has 3 internal hard disks now: IBM IDE, Western Digital SATA, and Hitachi SATA.
WD is SATA.

So, one install of WinXP has only used PATA IDE to boot from--but!--it has been seeing and using SATA controller drivers to access the other two HDDs--so the IBM WinXP *knows* about the SATA controller--just hasn't booted from it!

Your other WinXP OS has only booted from a SATA controller--but!--again, it has been seeing and using the IBM PATA IDE to access that HDD.

Quote:
this installation disk is not the same as the one I used to install the WinXP on my IBM disk some 8 years ago.

You installed each of the WinXP OSs from the installation disc at the time of installation--so the installation process went through the steps that are part of the install that detects the type of HDD controllers present and sets up those drives for the rest of the OS installation.

It may turn out that because each of the WinXP OSs has seen both the PATA and SATA controllers--it may allow for booting from either one without a hiccup--you won't know until you try it.

Quote:
I am now inclined to think that the Guide needs to be rewritten and clarified. Page 14 should not depict such a rosy picture about Ghost and it should make reference to Page 13.

Actually, one should read page 13 first!--before reading page 14--there might be something important discussed before reaching that page 14!

Quote:
if one day they die, it is likely that I am not able to replace them with very similar disks even if I want to.

Knowing now that that could be an issue sometime in the future, it might be a worthwhile investment to have a possible spare HDD that can replace an existing HDD.  By the way, it doesn't have to be *identical*--it can be another brand, it can be larger or smaller--just needs to be an PATA IDE based HDD.

Quote:
What is the fundamental benefit of using Ghost as far as backing up the system

If your HDD dies, you can put a *similar* HDD onto the system and restore the image to the new HDD--often times within a mere 10's of minutes (depends on how larger the HDD is and how much data is stored in the image)--rather than installing the new HDD and installing everything from scratch!

If you install something that goes painfully wrong and it completely screws up the OS--restore your OS partition image and again in minutes--you right back where you started from.  (I always create a Ghost backup before I let the monthly Microsoft Update run--I want to be able to recover if a particular update does not go well!)

How about if you get a virus--restore your Ghost image and you're up and running again in minutes!

Read Rad's Ghost Guide--Read the Ghost User Guide--you will not find a section that states that the function of Ghost is to be able to transfer your OS form one set of hardware to another--you will actually find that it says that often times may not work!

Quote:
My friend suggested me instal WinXP from scratch to the Hitachi SATA, since I have the installation disk.  The purpose is to set up boot.ini, ntldr files, the mbr and a Windows partition. And then I do a partition-to-partition clone of my Windows partition from my IBM IDE to the Hitachi SATA.  (Then I don't need to worry about Linux.) Yes, it would overwrite the contents on the Hitachi but not the boot.ini, ntldr files, and mbr - hopefully. Would it work?

Only if your WinXP on the IBM PATA HDD has no problem accessing the OS when it's on the Hitachi SATA HDD in the first place without doing the installation procedure.  As soon as you restore an image file, or clone directly from the IBM to the Hitachi--all the files from the installation process on the Hitachi will be completely over-written and replaced by the files that were copied from the IBM HDD--that is precisely what Ghost does--so the boot.ini, the ntldr, and all the Windows files will be whatever was on the IBM and now copied over to the Hitachi!

Based on everything said so far--I'd re-format the Hitachi HDD so the  *bad blocks* are corrected.  Then clone the IBM to the Hitachi.  Then boot from the Hitachi and see what happens--if it boots okay--then you know there's not a *dis-similar hardware* problem.  Then you can clean up the the LILO boot issue and do whatever you want with the Linux partition.

By the way, you didn't mention--how do you control booting from the IBM or the WD--do you change the BIOS boot information or use a boot manager program?
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #8 - Nov 15th, 2009 at 10:37am
 
Sorry I forgot to mention that I use the BIOS menu to change the boot device.
I think one key of my friend's suggestion is that I do a partition-to-partition clone, not a disk-to-disk clone.  The former hopefully would not overwrite the boot.ini, ntldr files, mbr, whereas the latter would.  And if his suggestion works, then I do not need to worry about cleaning up the LILO and Linux partition.
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #9 - Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:12pm
 
@
Helen Monte

Quote:
I think one key of my friend's suggestion is that I do a partition-to-partition clone, not a disk-to-disk clone.  The former hopefully would not overwrite the boot.ini, ntldr files, mbr, whereas the latter would.

That's what I was trying to indicate will not work!

It's complicated--I suspect the LILO is probably located in what Ghost User Guides refer to as the *boot tract*.

So here's some defining information: 

The *boot tract* is the first 64 sectors of a HDD--the numbering starts at *absolute sector 0* and goes to sector 63.

The Master Boot Record (MBR) is usually referring to *absolute sector 0*--it has the the needed pointers to tell the system where to go to continue the boot process!  And, *absolute sector 0* has the Master Partition Table that tells the system how the HDD is partitioned.

The default behavior of Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8.xx is to only copy *absolute sector 0* and restoring only that sector to a new HDD--but, only if the HDD does not have a previous MBR!  (More on that in a minute!)  And the other sectors (#1 thru #63) in the *boot tract* are ignored and not copied or transferred.  I don't know if that's true of Ghost 11 or not--but, I have a strong suspicion that it is also true in Ghost 11, as well.  You can change that default behavior by using command line switches when you load Ghost, or by selecting different *Options* from within the Ghost program interface.

Most likely LILO has changed the MBR pointers in *absolute sector 0* to point to itself.  And most likely LILO program code is located somewhere in the *boot tract* sectors #1 thru #63.  Most likely it starts at the beginning of sector #1, but not knowing how big the LILO boot manager program is, I don't know how many additional sectors are involved!

As I previously said, I'm not a Linux expert and know even less about the various boot loaders.  But, I do know that we've had a number of posts where using Ghost *breaks* the boot loader's ability to work--the reason is what I've said above.

Now that I've said the above--I have to go back to my previous recommendation and say it's probably going to fail unless you do something different:

Quote:
Based on everything said so far--I'd re-format the Hitachi HDD so the  *bad blocks* are corrected.  Then clone the IBM to the Hitachi.  Then boot from the Hitachi and see what happens--if it boots okay--then you know there's not a *dis-similar hardware* problem.  Then you can clean up the the LILO boot issue and do whatever you want with the Linux partition.

Using the default settings for Ghost, this will likely fail--because the additional LILO program data in the sectors beyond *absolute sector 0* will not be transferred.  The MBR of *absolute sector 0* will still point to LILO, but the program will not exist any longer (unless you are restoring an image of the HDD back to the *same* HDD that already has the LILO program sitting in those sectors of the boot tract beyond the *absolute sector 0*.  Then the restore should still work!)  So, when you clone to the Hitachi HDD which presumably has never had the LILO boot manager on it, only that *absolute sector 0* will be transferred.

Quote:
The default behavior of Ghost 2003 and Ghost 8.xx is to only copy *absolute sector 0* and restoring only that sector to a new HDD--but, only if the HDD does not have a previous MBR!  (More on that in a minute!)

This is a *fuzzy grey area* of knowledge!  It's hard to know for sure what actually is happening and what is transferred and what is not because it takes a lot of attention to detail and you have to add some type of identifiable code or program behavior that you can look for to see if your MBR has been retained intact or if the program (such as Ghost) has somehow either altered the MBR code--or replaced it.

But, my experience is as follows:  if you format a HDD--whatever MBR that formatting tool is designed for places that MBR code on the HDD.  So for example if I use the *format* program from Win98 (not Win98se) to initially format a HDD, then the code in the MBR will be of the type used by the Win98 format program.

Now, I install WinXP on another HDD using the WinXP installation program that has its own format tool and it places a WinXP MBR on that HDD. 

If I now use Ghost to restore an image or do a direct clone, HDD to HDD, of the WinXP HDD that has the WinXP MBR code on it, and transfer it to the HDD that was originally formatted with the Win98 format tool--the MBR boot code will remain that of the original Win98 formatting--and not be overwritten with the WinXP code!

I know this to be true!  I've done it!  How did I know?  Win98 boot code can not access large HDDs and boot from boot code above an approx. 8 GB boundary!  I could not boot any of my Windows OS (WinXP or Win98!) that I restored to partitions that were beyond that 8 GB boundary of my new larger HDD that I was attempting to upgrade to!

There is a way to replace the MBR code--one uses the command for the format tool to *fix mbr*--now the format tool in use will place its MBR code in the MBR.  So, if I use the Win98se format tool, it will place its MBR code in place of the Win98 code.  Or, if I use the WinXP Recovery Console format tool, it will place the WinXP MBR code in place of that Win98 code.

Both the Win98se and WinXP code in the MBR is able to boot from boot code that is beyond that 8 GB boundary--and now I could boot any Windows OS from a partition beyond that boundary if I used either of those MBRs!

Also, experience with various formatting tools--if you re-format a given HDD, the MBR will remain that of the original formatting tool even if you are using a different formatting tool--you have to use the *fix MBR* command to change the existing MBR to the one of the current formatting tool you are using.
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #10 - Nov 15th, 2009 at 1:48pm
 
@
Helen Monte

So, ran out of room to continue in the last post!

(You really didn't want to know all that stuff anyway--did you  Wink !)

So what can you do?

If you want to do as quick a test as possible to see if your WinXP from the PATA IBM will be able to boot from your SATA Hitachi--this should get you there:

1.  Reformat the Hitachi to get rid of the *bad blocks*.

Quote:
As I said, I have a third Western Digital internal disk, I have a copy of WinXP in it too, and my Ghost is on it; so I boot up and run Ghost from my Western Digital.


2.  So, are you using *ghost32.exe* to run Ghost from within Windows from the WD HDD?  If so, and if Ghost 11 acts like the *ghost32.exe* from Ghost v8.xx, then after starting Ghost, you would go to the *Options* button on the opening program page.  Then select the *Image/Tape* tab.   There select the *Image Boot* by placing the *dot* in that radio button.

You can read the description of that choice on the right side of that screen--it tells Ghost to copy and transfer the *entire boot tract* (sectors 0 thru 63), and it includes the *boot sector* (absolute sector 0).  So, now the LILO boot manager will also be transferred and your ability to boot will not be *broken*.

3.  Then do a *Local > Disk > to Disk* procedure selecting the IBM as the source and the Hitachi as the destination. (Yes, this will transfer both the WinXP partition and the Linux partition--this just a quick test to get to the point of knowing if there is a problem booting from a SATA HDD when previously the system had been booting from a PATA HDD.)

4.  Change the BIOS to boot from the Hitachi--are you able to boot?

Now, if you want to deal with the LILO and Linux partition:

1.  You have to uninstall the LILO boot manager.  I don't know how to do that!  You will have to look at your information you used to place that boot manager on your system in the first place, and find the appropriate instructions for getting rid of it!

The uninstall procedure should change the MBR back to the original so it points to the standard WinXP boot code and boot files. 

And, maybe it will also have the option to delete the Linux partition as well--I don't know!  If it doesn't--then after getting rid of the LILO boot loader, you can go into the WinXP Disk Management program and simply delete that Linux partition from there.

2.  If the LILO is uninstalled and you can now boot to WinXP on the IBM without it, you can simplify the Ghost procedure.  You shouldn't have to worry about the boot code for the LILO that's in the sectors beyond the first *absolute sector 0*.  So, you shouldn't have to change the Ghost default behavior mentioned above.

Use *Local > Disk > to Disk*.  Now that the Linux partition no longer exists, you should be given the option to make the destination HDD use its entire size for the partition coming from the source HDD.

3.  If you did not do the above first procedure to see if booting from the SATA Hitachi works--now is the time to see if it will work!  Change the BIOS boot order and see what happens!

Results?!
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #11 - Nov 16th, 2009 at 8:17pm
 
"are you using *ghost32.exe* to run Ghost from within Windows from the WD HDD?" yes.
It didn't work.
I used Windows to do a quick format of the Windows partition (Windows does not allow me to format the Linux partitions) and then do a local disk-to-disk clone with the image boot option.  Ghost gave me this same message twice: "Ghost has detected problems witha a Linux volume.  The volume was most probably not unmounted cleanly.  We recommend that you quite Ghost and correct the problem by running fsck on this volume.  Alternatively, you may also  continue normally." I don't know how to use fsck so I clicked Continue.  I do not know which Linux volume it referred to.  There are 3 linux partitions on my IBM disk and as a result of the previous cloning attempt, there are also 3 Linux partitions on the Hitachi disk.  After the cloning "successfully" completed, I tried to boot from the Hitachi disk but got half screen of 99s, as before.

The Ghosterr file reads:

*********************************
Date   : Mon Nov 16 18:26:44 2009
Error Number: (652)
Message: Attempted to access an inconsistent Linux partition.
Operation aborted at user request.

Version: 11.0.2.1573 (Nov 14 2007, Build=1573)
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Command line arguments:
Active Switches :
       Spanning
       AutoName
       Image Boot
PathName            :
DumpFile            :
DumpPos             : 0
FlagImplode         : 0
FlagExplode         : 0

Operation Details :
  Total size.........0
  MB copied..........0
  MB remaining.......0
  Percent complete...0%
  Speed..............0 MB/min
  Time elapsed.......0:00   
  Time remaining.....0:00   

Program Call Stack
AbortLog
Generic_Abort
CopyPartition
ProcessAllPartitions
CopyAllPartitions
CopyDiskToDisk
CopyMainline
AttemptOperation
sub_main
main

Call Stack
Address            Frame              Logical Addr              Module
0x000000007c90e514 0x000000000012d5ac KiFastSystemCallRet+0x0000000000000000
0x000000000012d8ac 0x0000000000000003 0x0000:0x0000000000000000
End Call Stack

---

I have just tried the entire process again to no avail, with the same error message.
One thing interesting is that the sizes of the partitions on the IBM disk are scaled proportionally on the Hitachi disk.  That is, say the Windows partition on the IBM IDE is 10GB, the Windows partition on the Hitachi is 120 GB; and if the Linux partitions on the IBM are 2GB, 1GB, 4GB respctively, then the Linux partitions on the IBM are 24GB, 12GB, 48GB after the disk-to-disk cloning.  Is there a way to change this scaling?
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #12 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:11pm
 
@
Helen Monte

Quote:
It didn't work.

That's always a *bummer*!

Quote:
I used Windows to do a quick format of the Windows partition (Windows does not allow me to format the Linux partitions)

Disk Management should allow you to delete those partitions, but in theory when you use Ghost with a disk-to-disk procedure, the entire destination drive should be overwritten, and whatever formatting was present on the source drive should be transferred over.

Quote:
Ghost gave me this same message twice: "Ghost has detected problems witha a Linux volume.  The volume was most probably not unmounted cleanly.  We recommend that you quite Ghost and correct the problem by running fsck on this volume.  Alternatively, you may also  continue normally." I don't know how to use fsck so I clicked Continue.

Are you able to boot to the Linux OS--or are there problems with that OS?  *fsck* looks like it probably is *file system check*--most likely the equivalent to Windows *check disk* or *scan disk*.

Well, when there's an error during a cloning procedure--I'm always suspect as to the final integrity of the outcome at the end!

Quote:
There are 3 linux partitions on my IBM disk

I'm just not familiar enough with Linux to know how things are set up on that IBM disk--but that seems like a lot!  I've usually seen reference to 2 partitions for a Linux installation.

Quote:
After the cloning "successfully" completed, I tried to boot from the Hitachi disk but got half screen of 99s, as before.

At this point, with the Hitachi set as the boot drive, you could attempt to boot with your WinXP installation CD.  When you reach the point where it asks what you want to do, select going to the *Recovery Console*  Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console for advanced users.  You may have to enter an administrator user name and correct password to load the *Recovery Console*.  Once there, you could try running the command:  *fixmbr* and possibly *fixboot* to see if that will create a new MBR that allows for booting to the WinXP partition.

Note:  The WinXP installation CD has to have the needed HDD controller driver available in order to access the HDDs once the Recovery Console is loaded.  Not all possible drivers are included on the installation CD.  If your driver is not there, you have to supply it at the beginning of the loading of the installation files by pressing F6, and you have to use a floppy disk with the drivers on it so the installation files can capture the drivers and load them.  I would see if the installation CD has the needed drivers by attempting to load the Recovery Console.  Your Hitachi HDD will not show up if the drivers are not available.  Then you'll have to deal with that issue!

Because you have multiple partitions, you need to know which partition your WinXP *boot.ini* file points to.  Look at that file in your C: root directory--you can open it using Notepad--it's a text file. 

Which partition is listed--could be 1, 2, 3 or 4--I don't think 0 is used?  Here's mine as an example:

Quote:
[boot loader]
timeout=8
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /sos
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons


It might help to see what yours looks like--copy and paste here.

Quote:
One thing interesting is that the sizes of the partitions on the IBM disk are scaled proportionally on the Hitachi disk.  That is, say the Windows partition on the IBM IDE is 10GB, the Windows partition on the Hitachi is 120 GB; and if the Linux partitions on the IBM are 2GB, 1GB, 4GB respctively, then the Linux partitions on the IBM are 24GB, 12GB, 48GB after the disk-to-disk cloning.  Is there a way to change this scaling?

Yes.  When you reach the last screen where it shows you the new layout and sizes for the partitions, you should be able to use the mouse to go up to the horizontal layout and click on the boundary between partitions and *drag* them to a new value.  Or, I think you can click on the listed size to highlight that entry, and then type in a new size.  As long as the data will fit, Ghost should allow you to change that to whatever you want.
 

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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #13 - Dec 8th, 2009 at 12:29am
 
Thanks for the reply.  I haven't checked this forum for a while. I think I'll give it another try tomorrow.  Here is my boot.ini:
[Boot Loader]
Timeout=5
Default=C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows XP Professional Setup"

As you can see, my last line points to "setup" -- probbaly because this afternoon, before I read your last post, I tried to follow my friend's suggestion (in Reply #6) to install WinXP on the Hitachi first, and then ... Well, I inserted my XP installation disk in the DVD drive when I was running Windows XP on my IBM.  I guess WinXP thought that I was trying to upgrade it, so it seems that it was trying to overwrite the OS on my IBM.  It never asked me which drive I wanted to instal.  It was very scary and luckily I was able to exit.  But ever since, it asked me, during bootup, whether I want to run XP or run XP setup. It must be due to this line in boot.ini.  Great, I have another problem to fix.
Anyway, to answer to yr question:
As said in my original post, I am not able to boot up Linux.  And I installed it several years ago so I don't know why I have 3 Linux partitions.  Probably because 1 is for the OS, another is for data, yet another is for some swap thing.
In yr last paragraph, you said "When you reach the last screen" - last screen in WinXP Recovey Console?
 
 
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Re: will new disk boot after cloning only Win prtitn from dual-boot sys?
Reply #14 - Dec 8th, 2009 at 1:06am
 
I tried to run Windows' chkdsk based on the instructions at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265 "Manual steps to run Chkdsk from My Computer or Windows Explorer".  First of all, since it seems the error is in the Linux partition (see Reply #11) I doubt Windows' chkdsk would reveal anything.  Anyway, I have 2 Windows partitions in my IBM disk: C: (NTFS) and F:(FAT).  F is relatively small.  I ran chkdsk from My Computer.  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265 says "If one or more of the files on the hard disk are open, you will receive the following message ..."  I never got one when I was checking on C although I was running WinXP and IE from C; instead, at the end of chkdsk it says "Windows is not able to complete the disk check"; it did not offer to perform the check at restart.  The check completed when I ran it on F but it did not report any result.  It simply says "The disk check is complete."
And since I am not able to boot up from Linux, I am not able to run anything, including the chkdsk-equivalent, from the Linux partitions.
 
 
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