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Ghost 2003 and SSD systems (Read 33696 times)
26kick
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #15 -
Mar 26
th
, 2010 at 9:22am
Did you use an SP3 version of XP? If not, I found that XP doesn't work with another alignment. Is that true? I think the XP default is 63K?
What is the difference between a sector alignment and cylinder alignment? Is the sector alignment the one that SSD's like?
Anyway, since I do not have a complete understanding of partition alignment or where it resides, does it make sense then that if I was to do "partition to image" and "image to partition" in order to do my backup, it would be preserved because that alignment is on a lower level? Whereas the "disk to image"/"image to disk" would be like restoring to unallocated space? Am I on the right track? Which one should I use?
I've always used "disk to image"/"image to disk" because I only ever use the whole disk (not just a partiition of it) for my system OS drive.
Is there a difference between using Ghost from a boot CD and booting to v.793 from a floppy?
And, if by mistake I take the wrong path and restore an image to find that the alignment is not preserved, can I turn to BING to get it back, without reinstalling my OS? In a way, knowing this would be like a backup for my backup.
Sorry if I'm a little repetitive and thanks for your answers and patience.
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #16 -
Mar 26
th
, 2010 at 10:37am
@
26kick
My WinXP is SP3. I'm not a Ghost 2003 user and I didn't do a Disk to Image. Also, I was using an IDE HD so you should run your own tests to see if my findings apply to your situation. I haven't been able to find an article where there is agreement on the partition offset of a SSD. Apart from the TeraByte statement of 2048 sectors.
Ghost 2003 is 7 years old so you can expect issues with recent hardware and OS. Good luck.
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #17 -
Mar 26
th
, 2010 at 8:56pm
26kick wrote
on Mar 26
th
, 2010 at 9:22am:
Anyway, since I do not have a complete understanding of partition alignment or where it resides, does it make sense then that if I was to do "partition to image" and "image to partition" in order to do my backup, it would be preserved because that alignment is on a lower level?Whereas the "disk to image"/"image to disk" would be like restoring to unallocated space?
26kick,
I think it may help if you view the image restore process as consisting of two independent steps. Think of it like pouring soup into a cup, or a bowl, or whatever. First you have to have the vessel; that's the first step. The second step is pouring in the soup, and the soup will adopt the shape of the vessel.
A partition image is like soup; you need a partition "shell" to pour it into. If your restore destination is a predefined partition, Ghost doesn't question how it is aligned, it simply pours in the contents from the image and the finished product keeps the shape of the preexisting partition.
If your restore destination is unallocated space, however, either you or Ghost will have to create the shell (the empty partition) first. If you do it, you can align it however you like. If you let Ghost do it, the only kind of alignment v2003 knows how to do is CHS-alignment. Either way, pouring in the soup is a separate operation.
Understand this, and it's easy to see why partition images are so versatile. That's also why you can restore to a partition of a different size. I don't use whole-disk images, but IIRC they have to be restored to unallocated space, which means you're going to let Ghost create the partition shells . . . and it will do that the only way it knows how.
You'll find a similar discussion in
this thread
.
As for your question about what alignment XP supports, see my posts #15 and #18 in that thread. There is a distinction between what the OS supports, and what the OS
installer
supports.
BTW: It's not an official term, but in the above I use the term "shell" to hopefully make it clearer that all you need are the boundaries of the partition. Literally, that's all a partition is (so "partition shell" is redundant), but a lot people get confused by thinking the file system (FAT32, ext3, NTFS, HPFS, et al) or the OS is part of what defines the partition. Ghost 2003 pours in the file system and all the files, but it needs the shell before it can do that.
(p.s.: all of the above assumes we're talking about conventional image/restores. The kind using "bit-for-bit", forensic-type switches are a different topic.)
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NightOwl
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #18 -
Mar 27
th
, 2010 at 12:48am
@
Dan Goodell
Quote:
Understand this, and it's easy to see why partition images are so versatile. That's also why you can restore to a partition of a different size.
I don't use whole-disk images
, but IIRC
they have to be restored to unallocated space
, which means you're going to let Ghost create the partition shells . . . and it will do that the only way it knows how.
I use whole disk images. When you restore, you can select *Local > Partition > From Image*. When you do this, you can choose just one partition to restore--but, you have to first create a destination partition--and that's where you choose what alignment you want to create before doing the restore! That's where you use the correct partitioning tool to do that--Ghost 2003 can not do the newer alignments.
If you have multiple partitions, you just restore them one at a time to your predefined partitions on the destination HDD.
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #19 -
Mar 28
th
, 2010 at 7:15am
Ah, good--thanks for the clarification, NightOwl. I wasn't sure if you could pull out single partitions from a whole-disk image.
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26kick
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #20 -
Mar 29
th
, 2010 at 4:12pm
Dear Dan and NightOwl,
Thanks for responding with such good information. I understand partitions a bit better now.
As far as my situation then, if I understand correctly, I should back up using “local>partition>to image” and restore using “local>partition>from image”. And since my SSD is currently aligned, I shouldn’t need to recreate the “shell”, just restore the partition “into” it.
I suppose if I wanted to, I could “sanitary erase” the drive (OCZ’s proprietary way of clearing their drives) then create an active, aligned, formatted partition using Diskpart from the Win 7 recovery disc before I restore the partition. I posted this link earlier but this is where they describe what I'm talking about, using Diskpart:
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_set_up_Windows_on_...
Would that preserve my alignment? I remember reading somewhere that it’s possible for the drive to be setup with the proper size clusters (?), 1024K for me, but for it still to be unaligned with the partition, and that it’s possible to “shift” things over for alignment. I forget which utility they used to do the shifting.
Anyway, if I don’t need to worry about shifting, all the better!
Knowing all of this in advance could save me a huge headache when it comes time that I need Ghost to get me out of a situation. At this point I’ve only ever done full disk images but now with an SSD, maybe it’s time to change that. Please let me know if I’m on the right track…..
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #21 -
Mar 29
th
, 2010 at 4:30pm
26kick wrote
on Mar 25
th
, 2010 at 8:25pm:
BTW, I'm aligned at 1024K, not 2048, as per OCZ support.
Your alignment is 1024 kb. Which is 2048 sectors. In Diskpart..
create partition primary align=1024
refers to kb.
So, all OK. BING can work with 2048 sector aligned partitions. (1024 kb aligned) (1 MB aligned)
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26kick
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #22 -
Mar 30
th
, 2010 at 1:22pm
Cool, thanks Brian. So when I backup, local>partition>to image......and if I need to restore local>partition>from image.
?
That will preserve the alignment, right? If so, BING is not necessary.
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Brian
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #23 -
Mar 30
th
, 2010 at 2:40pm
26kick wrote
on Mar 30
th
, 2010 at 1:22pm:
That will preserve the alignment, right?
As long as you restore into a partition with the same alignment.
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PCUnites
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #24 -
Nov 13
th
, 2010 at 8:32pm
This is a post to help those who may have had issues imaging systems with SSD drives and Windows 7, or any OS for that matter. Also some information about alignment settings with SSD. There are several ways to do things, this is just one recommend way.
**
Prepare a new bare SSD drive.
Boot from a Windows 7 disc and at the first setup screen (Language, Keyboard, etc.) press SHIFT + F10. At the new cmd prompt type "
C:\
" then press
Enter
.
**
Next we will repartition the first SSD and align it correctly. This will also keep Windows 7 from making a 100mb partition. THIS WILL DELETE ALL DATA ON SDD. Enter the following commands:
diskpart
list disk
select disk 0
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
**
Now continue with the install of Windows 7. Note that turning off page file, and hibernation makes the Windows foot print only 8GB.
**
When ready, image your system using any version of Ghost. I tested with Ghost 8.0 32bit (ghost32) version, but really it should not matter. Make sure you do a "Partition to image"
**
To properly restore a ghost image to an SSD, make sure the SSD has previously had
diskpart
correctly performed on it as written above.
**
Restore the ghost image using your favorite version of ghost. Make sure you do a "Image to Partition" restore. Reboot when ready.
**
If Windows will not boot (mine did not the first time because the MBR is not yet set), then boot off the CD again, run the command
bootrec /RebuildBcd
, then choose the windows installation. There should only be one. Reboot. Enjoy.
Note that newer versions of ghost may handle SSD offsets and Windows 7 MBR. I don't know.
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NightOwl
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Re: Ghost 2003 and SSD systems
Reply #25 -
Nov 14
th
, 2010 at 11:45pm
@
PCUnites
Quote:
Prepare a new bare SSD drive.
Boot from a Windows 7 disc and at the first setup screen (Language, Keyboard, etc.)
press SHIFT + F10. At the new cmd prompt type "C:\" then press Enter
.
**
Next we will repartition the first SSD and align it correctly.
This will also keep Windows 7 from making a 100mb partition.
THIS WILL DELETE ALL DATA ON SDD. Enter the following commands:
diskpart
list disk
select disk 0
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
There it is--finally, the answer I've been wondering about for a long time! I thought *surely--there must be a way to use the Win7 partitioning tool to avoid the 100 MB System partition*! And, this solution does not apply just to SSD based systems--this works on any system!
There have been previous threads on how to avoid the 100 MB non-drive letter assigned, but *required* System partition--which included using a WinXP installation CD to pre-partition one's HDD before booting the Win7 installation CD.
I've always wondered if you get the *latest and greatest* current Master Boot Record on your HDD if you use the 7 year old WinXP installation CD--rather than the actual partitioning tool that comes with Win7.
Once I saw your solution, I then knew what to Google for and have found another method using the Win7 installation routine as well:
How to Prevent Windows 7 from Creating a Hidden /Recovery /System Reserved Partition during Installation
Here's another reference:
Hack to Remove 100 MB System Reserved Partition When Installing Windows 7
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!!!!
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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