Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
FAT32 not visible in DOS (Read 23564 times)
schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
FAT32 not visible in DOS
Feb 8th, 2011 at 11:43pm
 
hi,
anyone maybe know why a fat 32 partition is not visible in DOS? it is 18GB logical at the end of my second hard disk which is 500GB. I boot to DOS on a small primary partition on my first disk. The first disk also has a fat 32 partition at the end that is visible to DOS but I'm trying to get a ghost 4 image out to the second disk.

thanks if you have any ideas
 

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 

MrMagoo
Übermensch
*****
Offline


Resident Linux Guru

Posts: 1026
Phoenix, AZ (USA)


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #1 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 11:35am
 
How big is your extended partition?  Is the disk SATA or IDE?  How big is the first disk?  Are they partitioned the same?
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #2 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 1:04pm
 
Attached is a clip from the partition manager. The disks are IDE and there are 2 more NTFS single logical partition drives on the second cable.

Edit: GH1 (N:) is the issue.

DOS is Win98 4.10.2222. In the past I did a similar layout on a smaller/older drive which worked no prob.
 

disks.jpg (102 KB | 270 )
disks.jpg

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6304
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #3 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 1:53pm
 
@
schmirk

This is reported occasionally with Ghost 15 but it must be unusual with DOS. With Ghost 15, if there is partition overlap or the partition extends beyond the end of the disk, it isn't seen in Ghost.

Can you post a partinfo? Download PartInfo from...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-free-software.htm

In Windows double click partinfg.exe and then File, Export to Text File.
 
 
IP Logged
 
schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #4 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 5:48pm
 
                 MBR Partition Information (HD1 - 0x96FCA669)
                   (CHS: 1023/239/63)  (WCHS: 64601/240/63)
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
| 0: |  0 |    1   0  1 |  f | 1023 239 63 |       15120 |   976752000 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
                              Volume Information
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 |    1   1  1 |  7 | 1023 239 63 |          63 |   438268257 |
| 1: |  0 | 1023   0  1 |  5 | 1023 239 63 |   438268320 |   501757200 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 | 1023   1  1 |  7 | 1023 239 63 |          63 |   501757137 |
| 1: |  0 | 1023   0  1 |  5 | 1023 239 63 |   940025520 |    36726480 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 0: |  0 | 1023   1  1 |  b | 1023 239 63 |          63 |    36726417 |
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+----+----+-------------+----+-------------+-------------+-------------+
                  MBR Partition Information (HD1) Continued:
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
| 1: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 2: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
| 3: |  0 |    0   0  0 |  0 |    0   0  0 |           0 |           0 |
+====+====+=============+====+=============+=============+=============+
                            BOOT SECTOR INFORMATION
------------------------------------------------
          File System ID: 0x7   LBA: 15183  Total Sectors: 438268257
                                  Jump: EB 52 90
                              OEM Name: NTFS   
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512
                         Sec Per Clust: 8
                           Res Sectors: 0
                                Zero 1: 0x0
                                Zero 2: 0x0
                                  NA 1: 0x0
                                 Media: 0xF8
                                Zero 3: 0x0
                         Sec Per Track: 63
                                 Heads: 240
                           Hidden Secs: 63
                                  NA 2: 0x0
                                  NA 3: 0x800080
                         Total Sectors: 0x01A1F7160
                               MFT LCN: 0x0C0000
                          MFT Mirr LCN: 0x01A1F716
                         Clust Per FRS: 0xF6
                      Clust Per IBlock: 0x1
                             Volume SN: 0xBE4C53BC4C536DE1
                              Checksum: 0x0
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55
----------------------------------------------
        File System ID: 0x7   LBA: 438283503  Total Sectors: 501757137
                                  Jump: EB 52 90
                              OEM Name: NTFS   
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512
                         Sec Per Clust: 8
                           Res Sectors: 0
                                Zero 1: 0x0
                                Zero 2: 0x0
                                  NA 1: 0x0
                                 Media: 0xF8
                                Zero 3: 0x0
                         Sec Per Track: 63
                                 Heads: 240
                           Hidden Secs: 63
                                  NA 2: 0x0
                                  NA 3: 0x800080
                         Total Sectors: 0x01DE834D0
                               MFT LCN: 0x0C0000
                          MFT Mirr LCN: 0x01DE834D
                         Clust Per FRS: 0xF6
                      Clust Per IBlock: 0x1
                             Volume SN: 0x6A843E37843E05DB
                              Checksum: 0x0
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55
---------------------------------------------
         File System ID: 0xB   LBA: 940040703  Total Sectors: 36726417
                                  Jump: EB 58 90 (EB 58 90)
                              OEM Name: MSDOS5.0 (MSDOS5.0)
                         Bytes Per Sec: 512 (512)
                         Sec Per Clust: 32 (32)
                           Res Sectors: 34 (34)
                              Num FATs: 2 (2)
                         Root Dir Ents: 0 (0)
                               Sectors: 0 (0)
                                 Media: 0xF8 (0xF8)
                          Secs Per FAT: 0 (0)
                         Sec Per Track: 63 (63)
                                 Heads: 240 (240)
                           Hidden Secs: 63 (63)
                          Huge Sectors: 36726417 (36726417)
                     Huge Secs Per FAT: 8963 (8963)
                                 Flags: 0x0 (0x0)
                               Version: 0 (0)
                        Root Dir Clust: 2 (2)
                           FS Info Sec: 1 (1)
                           FS Bkup Sec: 6 (6)
                              Reserved:  0  0  0  0  0  0
                             Drive Num: 0x80 (0x80)
                                   Res: 0x0 (0x0)
                              Boot Sig: 0x29 (0x29)
                                Vol ID: 0x28FED4F5 (0x28FED4F5)
                          Volume Label: NO NAME     (NO NAME    )
                               FS Type: FAT32    (FAT32   )
                             Boot Flag: 0xAA55 (0xAA55)
 

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6304
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 11:13pm
 
@
schmirk

Nothing is obviously abnormal.

If it was my computer I'd delete the GH1 partition, resize the Extended partition and create a primary FAT32 partition in the unallocated space. I'll bet Ghost and DOS will see the primary partition.

240 heads. Is your computer IBM, Lenovo, HP, Compaq?

Edit... In Ghost did you use the down arrow to view your partitions after tabbing to the list? I think there is a bug in Ghost where you can't scroll with the mouse to see all your partitions.
 
 
IP Logged
 

schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 12:56am
 
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt or the ghost down arrow(I was up and down that menu a few times hoping the partition would show itself.)

I didnt think those brand names were still connected with computers.  This one was kinda patched together starting around 2002.

MSI k7t turbo2
AMD athlon xp 2600+
SD RAM!!! max 1.5G
Drive in question is Western Digital
Severly bottlenecked NV 6800
SB Live 24bit
USB 1.0 Tongue Slow...
Optical drive sacrificed to free up IDE for 4th hard drive.

I'm not hooked on gaming much anymore so I stuck with it. I keep it clean and it performs.

The CPU is max this board will take and in order to install it the BIOS is updated with its last release v3.6. Not sure if that has any connection to DOS. I thought about 'moving' the ghost partition to the front of the disk and making it primary but dreaded relocating all the backup data. Did not think a primary really suited being at the back of the drive but now that you mention it that might be a work around. I dont like the idea of displacing my entire drive letter hierarchy, primarys first right, but I am not too bound to it as the reformat is still young. And my OS images are not yet made pending partition visibility.

Tomorrow I will think about going ahead with your idea unless a simple tweak shows up.

Thanks for taking a look.

Edit:RE the PARTINFO someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:...

DiskCheckup shows no errors in the SMART attributes but thought Id throw this on in case there is any usefull info. Drive letters have changed since this reading.

Device ID:                      1
Device Capacity:                16889331826771721 MB
Serial Number:                  WD-WCASY9555336
Model Number:                   WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0
Firmware Revision:              05.04E05
Partitions:
    J:                          213998 MB
    Q:                          244998 MB
    R:                          17924 MB
IDE Registers:
    Features:                   0x0
    Sector Count:               0x1
    Sector Number:              0x1
    Cylinder Low:               0x0
    Cylinder High:              0x0
    Drive Head:                 0xB0
    Command:                    0xEC
ID Sector:
    Cylinders:                  16383
    Heads:                      16
    Sectors per track:          63
    Cur Cyls:                   16383
    Cur Heads:                  16
    Cur Sectors/Track:          63
    Bytes per track:            N.A.
    Sectors per track:          N.A.
    Gen Config:                 17018
    Buffer Type:                0
    Buffer Size:                32768
    Vendor Unique:              0 0 0
    More Vendor Unique:         0x8010
    ECC Size:                   50
    Double Word IO:             0
    Capabilities:               12032
    PIO Timing:                 0
    DMA Timing:                 0
    BS:                         7
    Current Sector Capacity:    16514064
    Total Addressable Sectors:  268435455
    Mult. Sector Stuff:         272
    Single Word DMA:            0
    Multi Word DMA:             7
 

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6304
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #7 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:17am
 
I just remembered this thread. The first few pages are similar to your situation.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290692291/0

Creating a primary partition still sounds good.
 
 
IP Logged
 
NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5801
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #8 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 10:38am
 
@
schmirk

These are always the *head scratchers*!  On several of my systems (current and in the past) I have had second HDDs partitioned with only logical partitions (avoids drive letter shifting when booted to DOS)--and I've never had a problem with DOS not assigning a drive letter if a FAT partition was present.

But, I'm not clear on a couple things.....

Quote:
I'm trying to get a ghost 4 image out to the second disk

What program are you using in DOS where the DOS partition is not showing up on that 2nd HDD?  The only *ghost 4* I'm familiar with is *Ghost 4 Linux*  (G4L).  But, then you say:

Quote:
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt or the ghost down arrow(I was up and down that menu a few times hoping the partition would show itself.)

Well, that sounds like Symantec DOS Ghost--what version?

Quote:
Ya, neither 'e: enter' at the DOS prompt

So, you can not change to the *E:* partition, which should be the drive letter of that FAT32 partition on that second HDD--but, I presume you can change to the *D:* partition on the first HDD?

Quote:
This one was kinda patched together starting around 2002.

The CPU is max this board will take and in order to install it the BIOS is updated with its last release v3.6. Not sure if that has any connection to DOS.

I had a system I put together at about that same time period--it had a HDD size limitation at 137 GB.  But, apparently you are accessing the first HDD which appears to have around 250 or 260 GB--so, my limitation does not apply--but, maybe the BIOS is not properly supporting up to the 500 GB of that 2nd HDD.  Do you have other *spare* HDDs to experiment with to test the size limits?

Quote:
I thought about 'moving' the ghost partition to the front of the disk and making it primary but dreaded relocating all the backup data. Did not think a primary really suited being at the back of the drive

You realize that Brian was not suggesting *moving* that FAT32 partition:

Quote:
If it was my computer I'd delete the GH1 partition, resize the Extended partition and create a primary FAT32 partition in the unallocated space.

If you have a partitioning program that would allow a non-destructive (doesn't wipe out data) re-partitioning--he's talking about deleting the FAT32 partition inside that extended partition, shrinking the extended partition creating unallocated space at the end of the HDD, and then re-creating the FAT32 partition there as a primary partition.  No data has to be *relocated* (except what might be on that 18 GB partition), and a DOS primary at the end of a drive should not be a problem--unless you have formatted the HDD with a non-LBA aware formatting tool originally--and that may only be a problem if you are trying to boot from a primary at the end of the drive--not just accessing it.

Do you have any other DOS based HDD utilities--such as PartitionMagic, a DOS based Master Boot Record utility, a HDD DOS based disk editor, or Ghost's DOS based *gdisk*, or similar?  Does that partition show up in one of those?  If not, then I'm back to wondering if it's a BIOS limitation.....
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #9 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 2:49pm
 
Ghost 2002 (not sure why I thought it was Ghost 4)

D:(GH2) is visible in DOS to all DOS utils.

Quote:
What program are you using in DOS where the DOS partition is not showing up on that 2nd HDD?

No program in DOS can see GH1. Ghost nor a command prompt browse (e: enter). I mention FDisk below.

XP has no trouble seeing all partitions in Disk-1.

Quote:
Do you have other *spare* HDDs to experiment with to test the size limits?

There are 4 drives, Second largest is Disk-0 at 250GB. Next largest is the drive in question.

Quote:
You realize that Brian was not suggesting *moving* that FAT32 partition:

Ya sorry, probly just posting too late last night. I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP to implement. Just struck me as odd with primary at back but hey, if it works... Not ready to pull the trigger on that plan yet.

I put a query in at the MSI forum about hard drive size limitation. If the BIOS can serve XP access to the drive something is working but maybe DOS 7 has a BIOS limit?

Quote:
Do you have any other DOS based HDD utilities--such as PartitionMagic, a DOS based Master Boot Record utility,


DOS PM8 is hanging at startup.

MBRWiz /list displays all four drives primary and extended partition info but no logical drive info on any.

FDisk v1.01 sees the drive capacity correctly, but declares no partitions are defined.
 
 

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6304
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #10 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 3:13pm
 
@
schmirk

Can you look at your HDs with BootIt NG?

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm

Download BootIt NG. There is a one month trial usage. Unzip the file and make a boot CD.


double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Partition Work (Don't put a dot in Normal), next
don't choose any Default Device Options (if necessary, these can be chosen in BING), next
leave Registration strings blank, next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish

Boot from the CD into Partition Work. You can look at all 4 HDs. If you have a 127 GiB HD limit you won't see anything beyond that point. WinXP will show partitions beyond the 127 GiB limit.
 
 
IP Logged
 

MudCrab
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 19
California


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 8:34pm
 
Regarding Reply #4, what does the PARTINFO.EXE program report when run from DOS/Win98? It might be interesting to compare them.
 
 
IP Logged
 
schmirk
Dude
*
Offline



Posts: 21
OsoyoosBritishColumbia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #12 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:33pm
 
RE: Reply #7 Wow! You guys really dig in. I think I heard several "Whoooshes!" as I browsed through that.

Not that I can tell by looking at the numbers but it might be possible that the integrity of my partition table is a little shaky? Ok for XP to access the drives but not ok enough for DOS to read them?

Thanks for cluing me in to these other great programs by the way. Now I know about TeraByte's stuff too.

I made a PM8 boot floppy and booted with it instead of my c: DOS. It posted Caldera DR DOS 7.02 while loading and PM8 referred to the entire Disk-1 as 'unallocated'.

Also booted with BootItNG(thanks for the quick instructions). It posted EMBRL 2.04 while loading, no indication of DOS version. Entire Disk-1 '476GB Freespace'

As you can see from my Disk Manager picture, XP begs to differ.

Initial response from the MSI mobo forum does not state a hardware limit being the issue.

@Brian Have not reconfigured the partition in question to primary yet. Decided to poke at the issue a little more before trying.

 

You can see the whole universe in boing. -Allan Watts
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6304
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #13 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:55pm
 
@
schmirk

schmirk wrote on Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:33pm:
Entire Disk-1 '476GB Freespace'

Well you don't have a HD limit.

But PM and BootIt don't see any partitions on the HD although WinXP does. (By the way, BootIt isn't DOS. It runs from a TeraByte OS) I've seen this in the past on a couple of friends' computers. An empty HD in BING. I thought it was related to a bad CD or CD drive because BING from a USB flash drive did show partitions. Maybe you could try BootIt from a floppy as I doubt your computer will boot from USB. But PM was from a floppy.

You could also try a Linux partition app as they access the hard drive directly rather than through the BIOS.

The mystery deepens.
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
N California


Back to top
Re: FAT32 not visible in DOS
Reply #14 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:38am
 
Just to add my two cents to the discussion . . .

Reply #6:  "Device Capacity:  16889331826771721 MB"
Wow, wish *I* had a 16 billion terabyte disk!   Grin


Reply #6:  "someone mentioned the GH1 partition is formatted DOS 5 yet I am running DOS 7 on C:"
That's just a text string put in by the formatting utility, and is completely immaterial.  It's purely informational, and the rest of the boot sector information shows a proper FAT32 boot record.


Reply #9:  "Ghost 2002"
Just as an aside, in other threads we've determined Ghost 2003 had a disk size limit around 1TB, so does anyone know what Ghost 2002's limit is?  schmirk's problem occurs irrespective of Ghost, so there's obviously something else going on, but I wonder if the Ghost version will also ultimately be a factor.


Reply #9:  "D:(GH2) is visible in DOS to all DOS utils."
Okay, that rules out a 128/137GB BIOS restriction.


Reply #9:  "There are 4 drives, Second largest is Disk-0 at 250GB. Next largest is the drive in question."
Huh??  I thought the drive in question is 500GB, so how is that the next largest after 250GB?  How big are the other two, and are they attached?  If they are attached they could be causing problems, but I don't see any evidence of them in any of the reports presented.


Reply #9:  "I am aware of the process and would use PM8 in XP..."
Yikes!!  Never use PM8 from Windows!  That's asking for trouble.  It's a great utility when used from DOS, but never use it from Windows.


Reply #9:  "DOS PM8 is hanging at startup."
I suspect PM8 may have a limit somewhere around 500GB -- IIRC, I couldn't use it on a 640GB disk.  I *think* it can handle 500GB, but if there are two other mystery disks floating around, have we ruled out interference from those?


Reply #9:  "If the BIOS can serve XP access to the drive something is working but maybe DOS 7 has a BIOS limit?"
Windows has its own disk driver, but DOS uses the driver built into the BIOS.  Completely different, and it's absolutely crucial to understand the distinction.


Mudcrab's Reply #10:  "what does the PARTINFO.EXE program report when run from DOS/Win98?"
Excellent catch, Mudcrab.  schmirk has to be careful to qualify the evidence so as not to confuse us.  Brian asked for a (DOS) partinfo, but schmirk presented a (Windows) partinfw.  Those access the disk through different drivers, so we haven't established what the BIOS driver sees.


Reply #12:  "Have not reconfigured the partition in question to primary yet."
That's not going to make a difference, so no rush on that.  There's something more basic wrong.


Reply #12:  "it might be possible that the integrity of my partition table is a little shaky?"
I see no anomalies whatsoever in the partition report in Reply #4.  Your partition tables look perfectly fine.


This seems to be an issue with DOS and/or the BIOS, so further tests with Windows and linux utilities won't shed any light on that.  We know there's not a 128/137GB restriction, but it's an old computer so we can't yet rule out whether the BIOS may have some other disk size limit somewhere between 250GB and 500GB.  After all, the BIOS is using 240 heads, so we know it's not a standard BIOS.

The next step should be to follow Mudcrab's suggestion, and to avoid interference I would test with only the 500GB disk connected and all other hard disks temporarily disconnected.

It might also be helpful to know exactly how (what tools) you created and formatted the partitions on the 500GB disk.  You mentioned "the reformat is still young", which I assume means the exact procedure will still be fresh in your mind.



 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print