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rleescott
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ghost 12 copy hard drive
Apr 22nd, 2013 at 12:59pm
 
I have a dell p4 laptop, xp2, with a single hard drive. I attempted to copy the primary drive  to a new hard drive thru usb. The copy hard drive feature is available when the computer has booted to windows, but not from the srd. I would think certain files would be inaccessable with windows open for a fully functional hard drive copy. That is why I first looked at booting thru the srd for a hard drive copy function, but found none. I then performed the copy function thru the open g12 program, selected create mbr and make bootable drive. The installed copy drive boots to a blue windows xp screen, but then stalls and does not progress to the welcome screen. Can this be fixed or have I done something wrong?
 
 
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Brian
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #1 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 2:53pm
 
@
rleescott

rleescott wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 12:59pm:
Can this be fixed or have I done something wrong? 


You followed the userguide but unfortunately the guide is ambiguous and the copy failed. You copied into a partition with a drive letter rather than into unallocated space and you have a drive letter issue.

See "How to Manage System and Boot Drive Letters "....

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.shtml

If you zero the Disk ID, WinXP will load. I know you don't have a floppy drive but do you have a Win7 DVD or a BIBM CD?
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #2 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 6:44pm
 
A better idea. Download Win98SE_bootdisk.iso from...

http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html

Burn the ISO. Boot from the CD and at the A:\> prompt type

fdisk /mbr

and press Enter. You won't see anything happen. It goes back to the prompt. WinXP should load now.
 
 
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rleescott
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #3 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 10:24pm
 
Well, guess what? I do have a floppy on this laptop. I do not know what zeroing a disk is, so I will need guidance. I have xp cd and win7 dvd, but my install is xpsp2. Can this repair be done thru repair console? If so, I will need a step by step as to what I enter and where. Thanks
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #4 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 2:00am
 
Do Reply #2. That's the easiest.
 
 
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rleescott
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #5 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 8:04am
 
For future reference, is a brand new hard drive shipped from manufacturer by definition unallocated?
If I am copying to a drive with an existing os, will wiping the drive before copying make it unallocated?
Will accessing the drive via usb as a secondary drive and then deleting the os in disk management create an unallocated drive?
I would still like to know if the fdsk/mbr or equivalent is available to fix this problem by loading the xp cd and using the repair console.
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #6 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 10:41am
 
@
rleescott

Excellent questions--I do not use cloning programs from within Windows myself--so I have never tested some of the areas you are having questions about--but, I can answer a couple of them--and I suspect Brian has the answers to the others when he gets back to this thread......

Quote:
I would still like to know if the fdsk/mbr or equivalent is available to fix this problem by loading the xp cd and using the repair console.

If you read and understood what was being discussed in Brian's previous reference above: 

Brian wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 2:53pm:

you have your answer already! 

Quote:
Method #3 ("Kawecki's Trick"):

.......

The Win98 fdisk /mbr command is similar to the 2000/XP fixmbr command (used from the 2000/XP recovery console). The intended purpose of both commands is to restore the MBR boot code, and both commands do replace the boot code without altering the partition table at the end of the master boot sector. The two commands are not exactly identical, however. As detailed by Michal Kawecki, the NT/2000/XP boot code is 440 bytes, while the Win98 boot code is 446 bytes (271 bytes of executable code, 80 bytes in error messages, and 95 bytes filled with zeroes). The NT/2000/XP fixmbr command replaces the MBR boot code but stops short of overwriting the four bytes of the DiskID that sits between the boot code and the partition table. The Win98 fdisk /mbr command will replace the boot code and zero the DiskID--albeit, unintentionally. As Kawecki points out, we can take advantage of that "mistake" because it has the effect of invalidating the partition signatures--since the signature is derived from the DiskID and Windows has to regenerate a new DiskID, it has to recalculate the signatures and assign new drive letters, abandoning any previous assignments.

So, no, you can not use the WinXP recovery console's *fdsk/mbr* and get the same results.

Quote:
For future reference, is a brand new hard drive shipped from manufacturer by definition unallocated?

Depends.  If the HDD is a *bare* HDD, then probably *yes*.  But, if you get a HDD enclosed in a USB external HDD enclosure, then it usually comes pre-formatted, and that is now *allocated*.

Quote:
If I am copying to a drive with an existing os, will wiping the drive before copying make it unallocated?

Again, it depends on your definitions of *wiping* and what you define as *unallocated*--most *wiping* procedures will remove the partition table and the drive will be available for re-formatting and partitioning to start over.  But, the MBR is not touched, except to clear the Master Partition Table.  So a *wiped* drive will still retain the original MBR code and the original Disk ID will still be intact.  There are very specific methods and programs that do a *true* wipe where they also zero out the whole first sector of the HDD and that clears the MBR completely--this drive will now be a *bare* HDD as if it was fresh from the manufacturer--no partition table, no MBR--you have to start fresh with new formatting that creates the MBR, and partitioning.

Quote:
Will accessing the drive via usb as a secondary drive and then deleting the os in disk management create an unallocated drive?

I'm not sure I'm following the sequence of events correctly!  Are you asking if you delete the USB's HDD's contents by reformatting, will the HDD be *unallocated*?  Probable *yes*. 

But, you asked if you *delete the os in disk management*--well, the OS is on your primary HDD, and I suspect disk management will not allow that to be done.

So, I think the question(s) that you are trying to get at is how to access a HDD in a USB enclosure in Windows without drive letters being assigned and remembered by the Windows OS during a cloning procedure such that the USB HDD's assigned drive letter is remembered to be the drive letter it was assigned by Windows during the clone process, and when you next boot that cloned HDD--and the drive letter of the USB HDD is remembered in the Windows registry--and it's drive letter is not *C*!

Again, Brian's reference above: 

Brian wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 2:53pm:

the *Method #2:* tells you how to accomplish the feat before proceeding with the clone.



@
Brian

How are you supposed to correctly use Ghost 12 from within Windows to avoid the remembering of the drive letter assigned to the USB enclosed HDD during cloning, and then installing it as the new boot drive?

 

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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #7 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 2:37pm
 
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NightOwl

NightOwl wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 10:41am:
How are you supposed to correctly use Ghost 12 from within Windows to avoid the remembering of the drive letter assigned to the USB enclosed HDD during cloning, and then installing it as the new boot drive?


The problem is the drive letter of the target partition. If there is no drive letter then the cloned WinXP will load normally. So the following situations are fine...

Clone into unallocated space (no partition)
Clone into a formatted partition without a drive letter
Clone into an unformatted partition without a drive letter

During the Ghost wizard, choose these options...

Check source for file system errors
Check destination for file system errors
Set drive active (for booting OS)
DON'T SELECT Disable SmartSector copying
DON'T SELECT Ignore bad sectors during copy
Copy MBR
Destination partition type : Primary
Drive letter : None

On first boot from the new HD, don't have the old HD installed/attached to the computer. Otherwise the new OS can't adopt the C: drive letter.
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 4:54pm
 
Brian, I did exactly the sequence you describe in your last post and installed the new copy as the the only drive. That is how I got into this situation, so those instructions do not work to create a properly bootable copy.
Are you aware of free software that will erase a drive to return it to unallocated space? Night owl's comments make me think a wipe with copy/wipe won't work. Will gparted or similar work for this?
If I place the new drive into which I have copied my original drive in a usb enclosure and connect to my laptop with a working os, can I use disk management
to delete all visible partitions as a way to return the new drive to full unallocated status.
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2013 at 8:35pm
 
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rleescott

What happened after you ran fdisk /mbr? Did you have the new HD as the only internal drive when you ran fdisk /mbr?

What happened when you then tried to boot WinXP?

Edit... I've never seen fdisk /mbr fail.
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #10 - Apr 24th, 2013 at 2:15am
 
@
rleescott

rleescott wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 4:54pm:
Brian, I did exactly the sequence you describe in your last post and installed the new copy as the the only drive. That is how I got into this situation, so those instructions do not work to create a properly bootable copy

To be clear, you hooked up a *new* HDD (it has never been used before for anything else--ever) to a USB adaptor, you did not initialize or allow Windows to assign a drive letter to the HDD that was hooked to the USB adaptor, and you verified that the HDD in Disk Management shows that HDD as having no drive letter and the space was unallocated.

Or, are you *assuming* that that was the case?

rleescott wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 4:54pm:
Are you aware of free software that will erase a drive to return it to unallocated space? 

Yes, there are *lots* of free options.  I'm pressed for time tonight, and can not respond for the next day or so, but I will come back with options for you if you need them and someone else hasn't already helped out.

rleescott wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 4:54pm:
If I place the new drive into which I have copied my original drive in a usb enclosure and connect to my laptop with a working os, can I use disk management to delete all visible partitions as a way to return the new drive to full unallocated status

Yes, it will show the HDD as having all the HDD as being *unallocated*, but the MBR will not be *zeroed*, and most likely a cloning operation will not overwrite the existing MBR code with the MBR from the cloned HDD.  It's probably academic--it's likely the new cloned HDD will boot if the correct steps are followed.  The MBR is not the problem with the *non-boot*--it's that the cloned Windows registry remembers a drive letter that was assigned to the HDD when it was in the USB adaptor--and when Windows attempts to boot, it calls programs from the *C* drive, but the HDD that is now present has whatever drive letter it was assigned when cloning occurred--so, booting fails.

Brian wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 8:35pm:
What happened after you ran fdisk /mbr?

@
rleescott

Did you try this?  It's actually the *simplest* solution--if it works--it works great!  If it does not work, then there is a problem that's different than what we think the problem is, and we will have to look further at the problem.



 

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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #11 - Apr 24th, 2013 at 3:35am
 
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rleescott

How did you prepare your new HD prior to running Copy Drive?
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #12 - Apr 24th, 2013 at 8:27am
 
Hello to all. I have completed the fdisk process with perfect results, and thank you for this help. For others to know, the boot with fdisk is strange, saying memory has changed, referencing fat32 issues and requiring steps to proceed that I didn't anticipate. So for a moment I was concerned that I wouldn't get to the proper prompt. But after jumping thru a few hoops, there was the prompt and it works just as described.
Regarding my initial process, I copied from my old initial drive to a used drive with an os, thinking it would wipe and install simultaneously. Obviously my inexperience. Now I would like to do another copy of the same original drive to a used good drive.
If I use partitioning software to create unallocated space on the new used drive and copy into that, it seems that this would work. But it may leave hidden and non hidden partitions, all of which I want gone, because I would like a perfect copy, not just a functional copy. How do I prepare the drive to be 100% unallocated, like a bare drive? for example, how do I remove a drive letter?
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #13 - Apr 24th, 2013 at 9:19am
 
@
rleescott

Great work. You are up and running.

rleescott wrote on Apr 24th, 2013 at 8:27am:
Regarding my initial process, I copied from my old initial drive to a used drive with an os, thinking it would wipe and install simultaneously


That's what I mentioned above. You copied into a partition with a drive letter.

rleescott wrote on Apr 24th, 2013 at 8:27am:
How do I prepare the drive to be 100% unallocated


It's simple. View the drive in Disk Management and delete all partitions. Disk Management will show the entire drive as unallocated space.

rleescott wrote on Apr 24th, 2013 at 8:27am:
because I would like a perfect copy, noyt just a functional copy. 


You have a perfect copy now. It won't be any better if you repeat the copy. But I see you have a different target HD so go right ahead.
 
 
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Re: ghost 12 copy hard drive
Reply #14 - Apr 24th, 2013 at 2:48pm
 
Ok, to be clear, I put the new drive in a usb enclosure and use disk management to delete all partitions. There will be no hidden partitions or conflicting mbr? Night Owl seemed unsure if this would zero the disk.

Will it do exactly the same if in disk management I right click on the drive partition, select assign drive letters, then select remove drive letter, delete nothing and format nothing?

Will it also work if connect the new used drive to win7 by usb, use disk management to shrink the volume to a size that will hold the original and copy into the created unallocated space? After that I delete everything on the new drive that isn't a primary partition and use partitioning software to expand to the full size? Yes, this is unnecessarily complex, but if the answer is "yes, it will give you a bootable copy", then I think I understand the process.

Finally, can I avoid all these issues by doing a direct copy using copy/wipe, creating a perdect digital clone with no boot issues?
 
 
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