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Win7 Slow Updates (Read 2424 times)
NightOwl
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Win7 Slow Updates
Jul 3rd, 2016 at 11:35am
 
@
Christer

Christer wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:14am:
This laptop will serve as my companion when I'm away from home. The 128 GB SSD will probably bee enough since I will not create any dual boot system. I'll copy whatever work is in progess from the desktop to the laptop and take it with me. When I get back and something worthwhile has been accomplished, I'll copy the files back to the desktop.

I saw that you have got a new laptop with Win10 Home--and that you are keeping your old desktop with WinXP/Win7 dual boot for now.

We had a discussion going a while back about poor Windows Update scanning times, and download and installation times for Win7:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1444993490/0

I started this as a new topic rather than reviving that old topic---

Have you had any success in making the slow updating any better?  If *yes*, what have you done?

Have you seen any of the recent suggestions (last couple months) on how to deal with the problem?  And have you tried any of them?
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #1 - Jul 5th, 2016 at 12:14pm
 
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NightOwl

I just got back after a few days away. I started the computer and left it alone for ½ an hour. That is the approximate time it takes to check for updates for Windows and other MS products plus Microsoft Security Essentials which gets run separately.

I started the computer at 17:14, WU reports the last search at 17:27 and MSE at 17:36. After that, it takes another 10-15 minutes before the process "Trusted Installer" goes away and used RAM is released.

I have installed the most recent WUC and applied the regedit "Windows7-DisableOSUpgrade". I can't find a download link but I can send the reg-files to you by Email.

I install this WUC and the regedit each month because they are not included in my monthly image. The reason is that all manual installatons of updates must be done one at a time with a reboot in between, unless you have the time to wait for "Trusted Installer" to go away, making it available for the next update to be manually installed.

It's still a mess and I have given up. The "original" WUC works fine doing manual installations, at least but is still a worse memory hog and takes longer for the automatic searches than more recent versions of WUC. I like installing the updates manually, that's why I keep the "original" WUC in my images.

As a side note, I'll be away from home during the next few weeks and will check in only when time permits.
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 7:57am
 
I posted over at Windows BBS:

Fix for Windows Update slowness and stalling?
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #3 - Sep 3rd, 2016 at 9:35pm
 
@
Christer


Christer wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 7:57am:
I posted over at Windows BBS:


Well, that certainly adds to the puzzle.

I found a web posting that seems very interesting--it may or may not have anything to do with your situation, but it speaks to how *what version of Windows Update* has been installed effects how a system interacts with the Windows Update experience.

But, before that, let me preface with some baseline information:

1.  My system has never experienced the never ending *searching for updates*, and/or the high CPU usage problem--don't know if those two things are separate problems, or part of the same problem.

The only anomaly my Windows Update has demonstrated was back in the Aug./Sept., 2015, time period when the *Get Windows 10* issues were developing.  I lost the icon in the *Notification* area saying the *New Updates* were available--Windows Update would not search for and find new updates and announce their availability.  My Windows Update was set for *Let me know when new updates were available, but do not download or install--let me decide*.  I could do a manual search and updates were found quickly and I could install them readily.

Sometime in the Sept./Oct., 2015, time period, I found the Registry hack that was supposed to block the *Get Windows 10* program from being able to *invade* one's system unannounced.  As soon as I applied that hack, my Windows Update was back to *normal*, searching for, finding, and announcing that new updates were available.  No high CPU usage--and no long waits for the icon to appear indicating that Windows Update had found the new updates.

2.  Prior to applying the above Registry hack, and since then--my system was never offered the *Get Windows 10* program.  I have always wondered why Microsoft was never interested in placing that program on my system!

3.  Since *forever* (since installing WinXP, and now Win7), I have pretty much followed the advice of the *Ask Woody* forum (thanks Brian--I think you pointed me to that website many moons ago!)--basically don't install the latest Windows Updates when they first come out--let the dust settle for 3-4 weeks--and if all seems well, then apply the updates.  Only have applied Security Updates, and Important Updates--never Optional Updates (unless there was a specific reason to do so, as explained on the Ask Woody site.  Driver Updates, if any, have only come from the manufacture of whatever device may have needed it--never from Windows Update.

So, my system is *patched* and up to date to Microsoft's recommended standards--I've not hidden or prevented Windows Update from installing *everything* it has recommended.  I have delayed installing a few updates when the Ask Woody website indicated that a persistent problem was continuing to occur, but eventually installed the update when the *all clear* notice was given.

4.  My motherboard is this one by Gigabyte:  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3238&dl=1&RWD=0#ov .  I installed it (if I can remember correctly ?!  Smiley ) in the 2011 time period (wow--it's been that long!), and it is an Intel CPU based system.

If I'm not mistaken, Christer, you have a similar vintage motherboard from Gigabyte also, but yours is for an AMD CPU. 

When I first started reading about all the high CPU usage and long delays to get Updates, I thought maybe if was an Intel vs AMD difference--but that seems unlikely because it sounds like lots of Intel CPU systems are having the problem too--just not me (knock on wood!).

With all that said, I will point to the website in my next post that seems to shed some light on some aspects of using different Windows Update clients (i.e. versions of Windows Update).
 

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NightOwl
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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #4 - Sep 6th, 2016 at 12:40am
 
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Christer

Dang it!

Just lost an hour's worth of editing a post regarding the website I had promised to post.

So, it looks like I will have to try again tomorrow--I'm tired tonight!

(Just hate all the *functionality*--keystroke combinations that make something *happen* if you happen to hit the wrong keys--wish the system would just sit there and *stare* at me until I hit keys that are actually input keys of alpha-numeric characters--short-cut key strokes are not helpful at all in my hands--literally!)

Long time ago--the forum software allowed for having one's work automatically saved to the *clipboard*, so you could recover from such an event as above.  But, I guess that represented some sort of *security* risk, so it was removed.  Oh well--just have to start over........

Here's the webpage just in case you want to preview it before I post....  Following a clean install, Windows Update remains at "Checking For Updates" forever...







 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #5 - Sep 6th, 2016 at 9:11am
 
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NightOwl

Quote:
... but it speaks to how *what version of Windows Update* has been installed effects how a system interacts with the Windows Update experience.


More or less the same on my system. CPU- and RAM-usage have become lower but still a pain in the rear end, until this last (?) version which actually isn't an Update to the Windows Update Client but bundled with other "improvements". Also, I don't know if it is connected with the new version of the WUC or the fact that GWX is no longer promoted but with this version, the regedit (mentioned further down) is no longer needed to keep the WU-icon in the notification area.

Quote:
The only anomaly my Windows Update has demonstrated was back in the Aug./Sept., 2015, time period when the *Get Windows 10* issues were developing.  I lost the icon in the *Notification* area saying the *New Updates* were available--Windows Update would not search for and find new updates and announce their availability.  My Windows Update was set for *Let me know when new updates were available, but do not download or install--let me decide*.  I could do a manual search and updates were found quickly and I could install them readily.


I let the GWX (get windows 10) update install, checked out what happened. It checked system compatibility and let me know that it was compatible and ready to install. I never did it this route but used Ghost to roll back. Since then I have not installe anything remotely connected to GWX. I did have the same problem (no WU-icon in the notification area) but it has nothing to do with a specific version of the WUC. I have tested them all and without the regedit you mention, the WU-icon is gone.

Quote:
Sometime in the Sept./Oct., 2015, time period, I found the Registry hack that was supposed to block the *Get Windows 10* program from being able to *invade* one's system unannounced.  As soon as I applied that hack, my Windows Update was back to *normal*, searching for, finding, and announcing that new updates were available.  No high CPU usage--and no long waits for the icon to appear indicating that Windows Update had found the new updates.


Yes, I used that regedit to get the WU-icon back in the notification area. I don't think it has anything to do with the GWX-update itself or to any specific version of the Windows Update Client that has been installed since "preparation for upgrading Windows" was launched. I roll back using Ghost each month and the updates to the WUC have not been included in the Images so, in this respect, the WUC on my system is the first one KB2990214 in the series of updates to the WUC that accidentally ended up in an image. On each occasion when a new update to the WUC had been installed, as long as I didn't connect to the internet (and automatically to WU) nothing was changed, the WU-icon was still there but as soon as it connected to the internet and WU, some way or another, WU removed the icon.

(I wonder how the original WUC, included in Windows 7 SP1 would behave in this regard? I could uninstall KB2990214 and find out but I'm not that curious since the "bundled update to the WUC seems to have cured most of the issues.)

That was not the only problem. No matter which version of the WUC was installed, as soon as it had been connected to the internet, manual installation of multiple updates to Windows 7 with a single reboot was not possible. I had to reboot after each one to "reset TrustedInstaller". Disabling WU in its settings made it possible to install multiple updates but this was clearly not what was intended, I hope. I label it the "biggest bug ever"! (I haven't tested this "bundled" update to the WUC regarding "manual installation of multiple updates with a single reboot" but next week I will, prior to rolling back to August.

Quote:
--basically don't install the latest Windows Updates when they first come out--let the dust settle for 3-4 weeks--and if all seems well, then apply the updates.


I do basically the same but I didn't ask Woody. I install them, say in May and create my Image. If something is wrong when June comes, I can roll back to April and take it from there. I have Images 6 months back but didn't notice the problems with KB2990214 until too late.

Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, Christer, you have a similar vintage motherboard from Gigabyte also, but yours is for an AMD CPU.


Yes, GA-870A-UD3 rev 2.1 with the most recent BIOS version F5 (I think)

Quote:
When I first started reading about all the high CPU usage and long delays to get Updates, I thought maybe if was an Intel vs AMD difference--but that seems unlikely because it sounds like lots of Intel CPU systems are having the problem too--just not me (knock on wood!).


AMD or Intel is one of an uncountable number of parameters and that's only the hardware. Next we have software, update status regarding Windows and other stuff. A member over at the WindowsBBS says that "there are not two systems that are identical due to all the parameters" and I tend to believe his statement.
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #6 - Sep 6th, 2016 at 9:17am
 
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NightOwl

Quote:
(Just hate all the *functionality*--keystroke combinations that make something *happen* if you happen to hit the wrong keys--wish the system would just sit there and *stare* at me until I hit keys that are actually input keys of alpha-numeric characters--short-cut key strokes are not helpful at all in my hands--literally!)


When typing a long post, I do the ctrl-A + ctrl-C every now and then. The post above, I actually copied into Notepad to be safe from "fat fingers".

Is the "*functionality*--keystroke combinations" a function of the forum or the browser? I believe it is the browser (Firefox in my case) but I have no evidence.

I checked out the link and it indicates that I'm on the right track (WU updating the WUC in the background). The procedure mentioned is possible only on fresh installations, not to "fix" systems that have been used for any length of time.
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #7 - Sep 7th, 2016 at 1:26am
 
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Christer

Christer wrote on Sep 6th, 2016 at 9:17am:
When typing a long post, I do the ctrl-A + ctrl-C every now and then. The post above, I actually copied into Notepad to be safe from "fat fingers".


Good suggestions.  However it may be that 2nd glass of wine that aggravates the *fat finger* syndrome--at least in my case!  But, yes, it was the *browser's* short cut key strokes that was my undoing--not the forum's software.

So, the above link takes you to a forum posting by Ken Morley back on Jan. 19, 2016.  As you have noted, it is specifically in regards to a problem that occurs after a *fresh install* of Win7, and was not specifically aimed at the problem folks have been reporting to an older OS installation where they have long waits for the update search to occur and/or high CPU usage.  In Ken's case, Windows Update simply will not proceed at all--there's an endless wait and nothing actually happens.

But, there appears to be some important parallels to the other problem.  And there are, as of today, 499 replies covering 50 web pages which suggest that this is a problem more than a couple folks are having.  I have read through all the replies--it took a couple days at 100+ per session to get through them all--and there are some postings that suggest that this *solution* by Ken helped some folks having the slow updates and high CPU usage.  I plan on reading through the replies again--this time noting the specific replies that are of importance and trying to better summarize them here later.

You will see that there are *two* solutions listed.  There was the *original* that was from the original posting back on Jan. 19, 2016.  And, the *new* solution was posted only within the last week or so.  In the last couple of pages of replies, Ken has finally relented, and accepted that there was new evidence that there were newer *updates* that can be used than what he had discovered back in the Jan., 2016 time period.

To summarize Ken's findings, if you install Win7 from the original installation media, Windows Update works fine finding new updates and installing them.  But, as soon as you hit the SP1 update, then Windows Update stops responding shortly thereafter.  Or, if you install Win7 from installation media that has SP1 integrated into the installation media, again Windows Update stops responding shortly after the installation.  Apparently this does not happen on every system, and perhaps not every time--but obviously it's happening a lot based on the many replies to Ken's posting.  Ken speculates *I suspect that it (Windows Update) works fine for computers that are updated incrementally.*  I'm not sure why he thinks this--there's no *evidence* to support that statement--but........... who knows--there is no real *explanation* that helps resolve the *why* of this happening when it does.  But, he seems to have identified *what* seems to be going wrong--and how to avoid it happening in the first place.

Ken states that the freshly install Windows Update version is 7.5.7601.17514 dated 11/20/2010, if you are using Win7 with SP1 integrated in the installation media.  I have my original Win7 installation media that is without SP1 integrated, and I am unable to verify the Windows Update version because it can not be found on the installation media.  I actually downloaded an iso of Win7 that already had SP1 integrated on it from Digital River--the *official* source for installation media for Microsoft (no longer an available source) that I used to install my current Win7 installation, and that media also does not have the Windows Update file that can be *found* on the DVD--so I can not verify the version number of the file that was initially installed.

What I can say is that I did not experience the problem that Ken has described on my system.  I never had a problem with Windows Update.  My current version is v7.6.7601.23453 dated 5/13/2016.

What Ken says is that shortly after having SP1 installed, if you are connected to the Internet, Windows Update will *automatically* update itself in the background without any notification to the user.  And, if you experience the problem of Windows Update never updating after that, then the version number of the update will be v7.6.7600.320.  That updated Windows Update Client is not associated with any KB number and is not something that you can either install manually or *uninstall*.

So, more to come later.

 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #8 - Sep 7th, 2016 at 10:54am
 
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Quote:
Here's the webpage just in case you want to preview it before I post....


I had a look and to compare my own system, I extracted the original WUC-files (using Ghost explorer) from the very first image I created (while installing Windows 7). This is RTM (no SP1) and there are files with two version numbers:

7.3.
7600
.16385 and 6.1.
7600
.16385

As I understand it, 7.3.
7600
refers to WUC and 6.1.
7600
to Windows 7
RTM
in general.

Next, on the running system, I uninstalled KB3172605 and KB2990214 which brought the status to Windows 7 SP1:

7.5.
7601
.17514 and 6.1.
7601
.17514

As I understand it, 7.5.
7601
refers to WUC and 6.1.
7601
to Windows 7
SP1
in general.

This was prior to connecting to the internet and Windows Update. Just like stated in that article, the first action of WU was to install an update to WU itself. That resulted in a mess of files with three version numbers:

7.6.
7600
.320, 7.5.
7601
.17514 and 6.1.
7601
.17514

Note 7.6.
7600
.320 where, if I'm correct,
7600
refers to
RTM
(not
SP1
which is
7601
).

Windows Update finished and returned a result within 15 minutes, I guess but I didn't time it. My system was fully updated and only needed the most recent update to the WUC (KB3138612 which has been superseeded by KB3172605 but the latter one doesn't get offered through WU).

The "long idling state with high RAM- and CPU-usage" of Windows Update has been discussed over at WindowsBBS in many threads and the general advice has been to just leave it alone - sooner or later, it will finish the task. For a fresh installation of Windows 7 SP1, Windows Update has to sort out and offer approximately 180 updates (183 on my system) for Windows alone and in addition to that, updates to Office which may take some time to complete. By the outcome of the discussions it can be concluded that eventually, WU does finish and offers the updates to be downloaded an installed. It may take more than a single session.

I haven't been able to verify the claim in the article that "after a few minutes, you should have plenty of updates to download and install". Maybe I'll restore one of the first images I created, follow the procedure to update the WUC and do a test tomorrow but no promises.

(As a side note, the WU-icon stays put in the notification area!)
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2016 at 3:19am
 
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NightOwl

I'm confused, yesterday I wrote:

Quote:
This was prior to connecting to the internet and Windows Update. Just like stated in that article, the first action of WU was to install an update to WU itself. That resulted in a mess of files with three version numbers:


This morning, for some obscure reason, I checked again and now there are no files with the version number 7.5.7601.17514. Luckily, I copied the files to a separate folder, enabling me to follow any development. With reference to the attached screenshots (WUC.jpg):

7W2a is after uninstalling all updates to the WUC

7W2b is after connecting and letting WU update itself

7W2c is from this morning, thus after WU having checked for updates (yesterday) and a restart

The files with different version numbers are: wuapi.dll, wudriver.dll and wups.dll.

7.5.7601.17514, WUC of SP1, have the time stamp 2010-11-20

7.6.7600.320, updated files on the first and (?) second session, have the time stamp 2014-05-14

This indicates that WU ran on the original SP1 version for 3½ years until May 2014. Until then, things had worked fine (as I recall it) but why did "7600", indicating RTM, sneak in on a version of SP1 which should be "7601"? Fat fingers or ... Shocked ... ?
 

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WUC.jpg

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #10 - Sep 8th, 2016 at 3:38pm
 
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NightOwl

Quote:
Maybe I'll restore one of the first images I created, follow the procedure to update the WUC and do a test tomorrow but no promises.


I restored one of the first images of my Windows 7 Professional system. No updates whatsoever which means that SP1 went on first. Next, SP3 for Office 2007 (SP2 had been installed "back when").

I connected to the internet and ran WU which updated itself to 7.6.7600.320. I aborted the check for updates after an hour.

I restored the image again and installed the service packs as above and also KB3020369 + KB3172605.

I connected to the internet and ran WU. It took 6-7 minutes to find 168 critical/important updates and 70 recommended updates for Windows 7.

Next, I installed KB3125574 and ran WU again. After that, the number of needed updates had been reduced to 41 critical/important and 34 recommended.

Finally, I set WU to check for updates to "all Microsoft stuff" (basically Office and Visual Studio on my system) which increased the number of updates to 87 critical/important and 48 recommended.

The procedure works as a fix for "slow updates" ... Smiley ... !
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #11 - Sep 9th, 2016 at 5:00am
 
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NightOwl

Quote:
The procedure works as a fix for "slow updates" ... Smiley ... !


I forgot to comment that the difference between my system with the WUC updates uninstalled and the system restored to a totally fresh state is the number of updates for WU to manage and I believe that "7.6.7600.320" actually would finnish ... Roll Eyes ... later rather than sooner!
 

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Re: Win7 Slow Updates
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2016 at 5:17pm
 
Today, I tried to install several updates (*.msi) to Windows 7 with a single reboot. No such luck ...  Angry ... I had to disable Windows Update and restart to be able to do it.

Updates (*.exe) to Office 2007 works fine with WU enabled.

Conclusion ... Roll Eyes ... only half a cigar!
 

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