Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print
Windows 7 and Windows Update (Read 13631 times)
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Windows 7 and Windows Update
Oct 16th, 2015 at 6:04am
 
Since Microsoft started promoting the free upgrade to Windows 10, changes have occurred in Windows Update. I'm a true believer in not installing anything that I don't know that my system needs. This means that I have installed very few optional updates, only the "Platform Update for Windows 7" and other optional updates required to install Internet Explorer 11. This means that no updates pertaining to the "free Windows 10 upgrade" or the Windows Update Cient itself have been installed.

As a side note, the updates to the Windows Update Cient are among the "critical/important" updates but they remove the Windows Update Icon from the Notification Area. Don't ask me why the Icon is removed but I like the Icon to be there so, I omit those updates too.

I download the updates manually to the computer and install them off-line. Before installing the new batch of updates, I restore the Ghost Image from previous month and afterwards, I create a fresh Ghost Image. This means that the Windows Update Client is the same as when installed in 2011. There's no problem installing a batch of updates with a single reboot when done.

However, during the month, when Windows Update checks for updates, strange things happen.

My system has an AMD Phenom II, quadcore 3 GHz and 4 GB RAM.

When the computer is started and Windows Update checks for updates, there's a process "TrustedInstaller" and an instance of svchost.exe that combined use 25% of the CPU and several GB of RAM. Total RAM usage is up to 75%. It goes on for some 25 minutes and when done, CPU usage drops to "idling" and RAM usage to 17-18%.

If I try to manually install updates when this "process" is running in the background (not initiated by yours truly), I get to the first one but the second hangs until the "process" has been terminated. Well, I can terminate the "wsus process" and restart the computer between each update but what the heck ... Lips Sealed ... ?

Prior to "Windows 10 promotion", a run of Windows Update took approximately a minute or a few at most.

On a second startup, when Windows Update doesn't check for updates, the computer settles at 25% RAM usage with no excessive CPU usage.

Is there anyone out there with the same experience?

Any thoughts?
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 

NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5788
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #1 - Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am
 
@
Christer

Windows Update has become a total disaster!!!  I thought it was for getting security updates--but now we are getting Potentially Unwanted Programs (PUP) which are forcing us to download and install other programs (Win10) that we may not want!!!!

I'm not having your exact problem--so can not help with direct experience--but, I have seen posts elsewhere that sound similar--and maybe a solution is hiding in the discussion.

Are you familiar with *Ask Woody*?  Here's a link:  http://www.askwoody.com/

It's a blog--not a forum--and people can comment after different blog postings by Woody are made--so information tends to be fragmented and scattered all over the place.

But, this posting and it's comments may have some information for you:  http://www.askwoody.com/2015/msdefcon-2-patch-tuesday-coming/

So, commenter Marty on 9/7 says his Windows Update icon indicating *when there are new updates* has disappeared.  Ed on 9/9 says he too has that problem, and speculates as to why:

Quote:
I have KB2952664 and KB3035583 hidden and I also have the Scheduled Task for “Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser” disabled under Application Experience. Those have all been in that status for several months.


Marty, on 9/9 states:

Quote:
The WU icon is now missing in the notifications area on all 5 of my Win7 machines (both 32- and 64-bit). This happened only after I installed the August 11 updates.

My speculation is that KB 3075851 (Windows Update Client) was the cause of this, but I haven’t tried uninstalling that update in order to confirm that.


Ed posts on 9/14:

Quote:
I don’t know if this has any significance or not but as I stated above along with having the two updates hidden on every Win 7 system I maintain I also have a scheduled task disabled that others are not mentioning.

Whether that scheduled task has any correlation to downloading the files or not is unknown but I can testify without a doubt with task enabled it causes a significant strain on systems upon every boot-up OR at 3 AM every day if the system is powered on (whether a user is logged in or not).



That sounds like your complaint!!!  Do you have that scheduled task in the Task Scheduler?


On 9/14 Marty reports:

Quote:
As an experiment, I tried uninstalling KB3075851 from one of my Win7 computers.

The WU icon is now back in the Notification Area. But the price I paid for that was wiping out WU’s list under “View update history”.


On 9/16, a new poster, jelson, makes these comments:

Quote:
@Marty

My experience mirrors yours. Uninstalling KB3075851 restored the WU notification and cleared update history.

However, WU then took a long, long time to check for updates and download them. That made doing updates a pain since I install them in sets instead of all at the same time

I found the solution to be uninstalling all the recent WU Client update patches: KB3050265, KB3065987 and KB2990214

Now WU is functioning the same it used to.


On 9/18, Ed made these comments:

Quote:
“I found the solution to be uninstalling all the recent WU Client update patches: KB3050265, KB3065987 and KB2990214″

I’m also experiencing drastically long checks for updates and I’m tempted to follow suit here myself but I’m a bit hesitant. I’m wondering if there may be a residual effect that may outweigh the benefit?

What say you Woody? Do these 3 WU Client updates only benefit MS or do they contain anything “useful” for the user?


Woody responded:

Quote:
@Ed -

I’m running experiments even as we speak. It’s NOT a simple situation.


Unfortunately, Woody has never followed up or responded regarding these issues.

On 10/13, Ed responded:

Quote:
Since nothing ever appeared here after my last “nag” I never did uninstall any of the 3 WU client updates… but for some unknown reason at 4:35 AM today a little bubble popped up from my tray telling me there were updates available.

Other than disabling the Diagnostic Tracking service and running the GWX control panel I did nothing, could that possibly have some relationship to the notification icon reappearing?


If any of the above has any relevance to your problems--let us know what you find out!!!  Presumably making an image and testing any of the suggestions would tell you if they help--you can always restore the image and be back where you started.

I know you said that you have not installed any of the WU Client updates--have you checked the WU updates KB's mentioned above against your install history?

And, I'd be interested in knowing if you have that scheduled task running!!!

Christer wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 6:04am:
Before installing the new batch of updates, I restore the Ghost Image from previous month and afterwards, I create a fresh Ghost Image. This means that the Windows Update Client is the same as when installed in 2011.

I have to admit, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here--could you elaborate?

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #2 - Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:10am
 
@
NightOwl

Quote:
Are you familiar with *Ask Woody*?

I don't recall ever visiting Woody but I may have forgotten about it. I'll follow the link later. For now, I'll respond to your quotes.

Quote:
I have KB2952664 and KB3035583 hidden and I also have the Scheduled Task for “Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser” disabled under Application Experience. Those have all been in that status for several months.


Those two updates pertain to the "free Windows 10 promotion" and are optional which means that I don't have them installed. I have tested them and with the latter, a new Icon in the Notification Area appears - a blue/white Windows Flag nagging about Windows 10. The updates were removed by restoring an Image.

Quote:
My speculation is that KB 3075851 (Windows Update Client) was the cause of this, but I haven’t tried uninstalling that update in order to confirm that.


That's my conclusion too. It started in August with KB3075851 which in September was replaced by KB3083324 and in October by KB3083710. They seem to be monthly revisions of the same disaster, sorry ... Undecided ... update, which means that we have not seen the last one. I have tried them all with the same result (loss of the WU-icon in the Notification Area). They were all uninstalled by restoring an Image.

NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am:
That sounds like your complaint!!!Do you have that scheduled task in the Task Scheduler?


No, if referring to "Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser under Application Experience", I don't have it. I believe that task is linked to KB2952664 (which checks the system for Windows 10 compatibility) and possibly KB3035583.

On my system, after restoring an Image, without any of the mentioned updates installed, the process "TrustedInstaller" and an instance of svchost.exe appear as soon as the computer has been connected to the internet and WU has been run. The problem problem seems to be dumped on me in the background.

Quote:
As an experiment, I tried uninstalling KB3075851 from one of my Win7 computers.

The WU icon is now back in the Notification Area. But the price I paid for that was wiping out WU’s list under “View update history”.


Since I don't uninstall but restore an Image, the update history is unaffected.

Quote:
I found the solution to be uninstalling all the recent WU Client update patches: KB3050265, KB3065987 and KB2990214


Those pre-August updates were "optional". I didn't notice the "WU Client updates" until KB3075851 was made "important" from August. As I mentioned, I never install or even look at all the "optional" updates.

Quote:
What say you Woody? Do these 3 WU Client updates only benefit MS or do they contain anything “useful” for the user?


I ask the same question and my own answer is ... Roll Eyes ... MS-spyware.

Quote:
Since nothing ever appeared here after my last “nag” I never did uninstall any of the 3 WU client updates… but for some unknown reason at 4:35 AM today a little bubble popped up from my tray telling me there were updates available.


That's interesting! It was on the same day that the October batch of updates was released. I wonder if it was while KB3083324 was still the most recent (prior to installing the new batch) or if the October version, KB3083710, had been installed?

I should always have the Icon showing because in Control Panel > Notification Area Icons, the check box to "Always show all icons and notifications on the taskbar" has been checked since "day one".

Quote:
Other than disabling the Diagnostic Tracking service and running the GWX control panel I did nothing, could that possibly have some relationship to the notification icon reappearing?


I don't have the Diagnostic Tracking Service.

I think that GWX is the "Get Windows 10" task/service which is installed by KB3035583. It can be disabled by a regedit.

NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am:
If any of the above has any relevance to your problems--let us know what you find out!!!Presumably making an image and testing any of the suggestions would tell you if they help--you can always restore the image and be back where you started.


I believe I have covered it all above but if I have missed something, please ask again.

NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am:
I know you said that you have not installed any of the WU Client updates--have you checked the WU updates KB's mentioned above against your install history?


They are not in my update history. They have, from August been installed, one after the other when released but always "removed" by restoring an Image.

NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am:
And, I'd be interested in knowing if you have that scheduled task running!!!


Nope, never heard of it. I only have "TrustedInstaller + an instance of svchost.exe that I have identified as
culprits. When the RAM-usage drops to normal, TrustedInstaller goes away from the Taskmanager but I haven't counted the number of instances of svchost.exe.
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #3 - Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:20am
 
@
NightOwl

I ran out of characters so here comes the final comments:

NightOwl wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 12:52am:
I have to admit, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here--could you elaborate?

Well, reading it I hardly understand myself ... Grin ... !

Since installing the system, I have created a monthly Image. The Images are "virgin" in the meaning that the computer has never been connected to the internet. It is clean, apart from one single connection to activate Windows 7.

To maintain virginity (of the computer), my routine is:

After a months usage, when the new batch of Windows Update Grenades ... Wink ... are released, I check the updates and download those that I plan to install. After downloading, I disconnect from the internet.

Next, I restore the Image from the previous month.

Next, I install the selected updates from the downloaded files.

Finally, after cleaning up tempfiles and such, followed by a defragmentation, I create a new Image.

A wee bit cumbersome but I know that at least one in my household is a Virgin ... Undecided ... !
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #4 - Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:37am
 
@
NightOwl

Christer wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 6:04am:
This means that the Windows Update Client is the same as when installed in 2011.

Well, on a second or third thought, it probably isn't. Since the computer is a Virgin, Windows Update is of the version that searches for updates to Windows only. After the cumbersome procedure described above, the first step I take is to install Microsoft Security Essentials and with that, Windows Update is upgraded to search for updates to "Windows and other products" (or whatever it says in English).

The plot thickens ... Shocked ... and when I find the time, I'll restore an Image and let the computer connect to the internet to run Windows Update without MSE.
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #5 - Oct 19th, 2015 at 6:29am
 
@
NightOwl

Christer wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:10am:
When the RAM-usage drops to normal, TrustedInstaller goes away from the Taskmanager but I haven't counted the number of instances of svchost.exe.

Now I have counted them. While Windows Update does its thing, there are 14 instances of svchost.exe + a single svchost.exe *32. When done and TrustedInstaller goes away, the count drops to 13 + 1.
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 

Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #6 - Oct 19th, 2015 at 1:12pm
 
@
NightOwl

I've been at Woody's and read the entry on the October updates (MS-DEFCON 2: Time to get Windows Update locked down again). A comment made by Ed indicates that installing one of these udates to the Windows Update Client, cures the resource hogging and lenghty search for updates but at the expence of the Icon in the Notification Area. I'll check it out!

EDITED:

I initiated a run of Windows Update. It took ~8 minutes, used 25% CPU and total RAM-usage was 72%.

I installed KB3083710 and restarted the computer.

After the usual few minutes of waiting, the WU-Icon appeared in the Notification Area.

I initiated a run of Windows Update. It took ~17 minutes, used 25% CPU and total RAM-usage was 46%. This was the first run with the updated Client. I restarted the computer.

After the usual few minutes of waiting, as expected, the WU-Icon did NOT appear in the Notification Area.

I initiated a run of Windows Update. It took ~8 minutes, used 25% CPU and total RAM-usage was 44%.

On my system, it seems like a choice of "plague or cholera". Less RAM-usage but loss of the Icon in the Notification Area.

The jury is still out. It will be 24 hours after the latest run of WU until it runs automatically upon starting the computer. Prior to installing KB3083710, this has taken ~25 minutes. I'll find out tomorrow if there's an improvement.
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #7 - Oct 20th, 2015 at 4:20pm
 
@
NightOwl

Christer wrote on Oct 19th, 2015 at 1:12pm:
The jury is still out. It will be 24 hours after the latest run of WU until it runs automatically upon starting the computer. Prior to installing KB3083710, this has taken ~25 minutes. I'll find out tomorrow if there's an improvement.

Well, there's an improvement. It took 10 minutes using the same 25% CPU but RAM-usage (total) has been reduced to 45%. The question is why the Icon goes away from the Notification Area? Annoying but maybe I can learn to live without it. Less convenient ... Lips Sealed ... to launch Windows Update from the Programs Menu or the Control Panel!
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 547
N California


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2015 at 10:00pm
 
    "Other than disabling the Diagnostic Tracking service and running the GWX control panel ..."

    "I think that GWX is the "Get Windows 10" task/service which is installed by KB3035583"

For the benefit of lurkers, let's clarify that GWX and GWX Control Panel are two different things. GWX is Microsoft's "Get Windows 10" update, which MS tries to sneak in with other Windows updates into your 7 or 8.1 system. GWX Control Panel is a no-install, third-party utility to check and prevent MS from sneaking GWX into your system. GWX Control Panel is a vital tool to make sure your system is not being upgraded to Win 10 behind your back.

I agree with NightOwl that Windows Update has become a disaster. For me it reached that point a few years ago, before the current GWX debacle. For about 3 years now, I've been turning Windows Update completely OFF on all the systems I support. I gave up on the "Let me choose" option when MS started sneaking certain updates by and auto-installing despite the "Let me choose" setting. Turning updates completely off seems to have prevented that kind of problem, though I'm not entirely confident MS can't still slip something through if it wants.

In lieu of online updating, I've been instead using WSUS Offline Update. (I'll describe this utility in a separate post for those who wish to know more.) One key feature of WSUS Offline is the ability to blacklist updates you don't ever want installed. So rather than playing cat-and-mouse games with Windows Update, I just blacklist them in WSUS Offline and they never get installed.

Some may argue that my delayed-install strategy doesn't get legitimate updates installed in a timely manner, but for me that's an acceptable tradeoff. Historically, my pristine system has proven to be at greater risk from Microsoft than from random hackers on the internet. Given the number of bad updates MS has pushed out in recent years, I prefer to let others be the guinea pigs before I install an update on my system.

(Okay, full disclosure time: I even quit using AV on my own system over a year ago. After hearing that experts like Steve Gibson and Bruce Schneier don't use AV on their personal systems, I gave it some thought and realized that my system has never been infected and it's been years since I've even heard a peep from any of my AV programs. I don't recommend this for everyone, but for those of us who are overly cautious the risk of malware infection seems so low that we can get away relying only on backup images if anything bad happens. It took me a year before having the guts to finally pull the plug, but I did a little over a year ago, and have had absolutely no problems.)



I like Christer's Reply #3. That's the same strategy I've been using since before the release of XP-SP3 8 years ago, although I reimage annually instead of monthly. My philosophy is that because Microsoft constantly issues patches and then patches to those patches, I prefer to wait more than one month for MS to get it right before I install anything and in the long run I should end up with a cleaner system.

Like Christer, my strategy is to make a clean install, include programs I know I'll always want to keep, then store away an image. Throughout the subsequent year I may add updates and additional programs, but may decide some of those new programs aren't worth embedding in my pristine image.

At the end of the year I make a note of which programs are keepers, then restore the year-old image, update Windows, add back in the new programs I decided to keep, and reimage. Similar to Christer, my pristine image never actually touches the internet. Windows updates are applied via WSUS Offline.

Once a system is compromised, you can never be 100% certain you'll get every bit of the malware cleaned out. But by using Christer's and my strategy, we can have a high degree of confidence that--at least once a year (or month, in Christer's case)--our systems are completely free of viruses, malware and backdoors after this kind of "scorched earth" restore.

 
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 547
N California


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #9 - Oct 20th, 2015 at 10:12pm
 
I've been using CT Update and its successor, WSUS Offline Update, for around 10 years to (relatively) quickly bring a clean install up to date, or for updating customers' computers onsite when they have a bad or slow internet connection. In recent years, though, I've taken to also using it on all computers in lieu of online updating entirely.

The principle behind WSUS Offline Update is that you keep copies of all Windows updates ("Important" updates only, not the "Optional" ones) on an external USB drive or flash drive, then use that to update other machines when desired. I have updates for all consumer versions of Windows 2000 through 8.1, plus Office versions from 2000-2013. I've long used a USB hard drive, but economical flash drives are now large enough that a 32GB or 64GB flash drive will easily hold the entire cache.


Installing WSUS Offline Update

Start by downloading the WSUS Offline Update utility from here. Support for 32-bit XP seems to have been dropped in v9.3, so download v9.2.1 or earlier from the WSUS download page if you want to include updates for 2000, XP, or Office 2000-2003. (Note: because it's a no-install program, there's no reason you can't keep two versions on your external drive--one for older OS's and one for new.)

Drag the "wsusoffline" folder out of the zipfile and copy it to external USB drive. This is a no-install program, so just drag it to a convenient place and run it from there.

From any working Windows machine, launch the folder's updategenerator.exe file. Tick the OS and Office versions for which you want updates. If using v9.2.1, tick XP and/or Office 2003 on the [Legacy products] tab.

Click [Start] to download all updates to the external drive. The first time you do this, it will take quite some time to download everything, so the faster your internet connection, the better.

(Aside: some AV programs can slow downloads to a crawl--one windows cabinet file, wsusscn2.cab, in particular. For best results, temporarily disable AV while updategenerator is downloading.)

After downloading is finished attach the external drive to a machine you want to update, and launch the wsusoffline\client\updateinstaller.exe file to start the update process. It will still take time to install the updates, but at least you won't be sitting around waiting for it to also download every update before installing.

I run updategenerator.exe every 3-4 months to keep it moderately up to date. I usually do that at the end of the month, on the theory that if the most recent "Second Tuesday" updates had a particularly bad update there's more chance the update would have been pulled before I update my WSUS Offline cache.


Blacklisting Updates

Add any updates you want to the wsusoffline\client\exclude\ExcludeList.txt text file. (I assume that since this file is under the client folder, blacklisted updates will still get downloaded but just won't get installed.)

Attached is my ExcludeList.txt file. Note that all the problematic updates mentioned in earlier posts in this thread are on the blacklist.

Note that I have service packs and IE versions in my blacklist. That's not because they're bad, it's because I don't want WSUS Offline automatically installing them. I may want different service packs on different installations, so I leave WSUS Offline out of it and install service packs manually in the cases where I want them.


 

ExcludeList.txt (2 KB | 135 )
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #10 - Oct 21st, 2015 at 6:54am
 
@
Dan Goodell

Quote:
I like Christer's Reply #3. That's the same strategy I've been using since before the release of XP-SP3 8 years ago, although I reimage annually instead of monthly.

It takes a few hours to go through the "cumbersome procedure" and I have considered doing it less often, maybe quarterly or biannually but you do it annually ... Undecided ... which indicates that I am overdoing it.

My Ghost-HDD is partitioned in 4, 2 for W7 and 2 for XP (dualboot). When one partition (for each OS) gets full, I reformat the other (holding older Images) and use it as the target for Ghost. This means that I have some 5-10 Images to roll back. Hopefully, any and all issues have been noticed and fixed within that timeframe.

Space is, however, becoming a problem since the W7 installation has grown from 13313 MB (january 2011) to 32404 MB (october 2015). The size is according to Ghost, less the pagefile. I have not installed any programs of significant size and that 143% growth ... Huh ... is, more or less, caused by updates to Windows and Office!

(To compare, the size of the XP installation has grown from 5935 MB to 10138 MB, a 71% growth.)

I'm aware of the Disk Cleanup Wizard addon, I have tested it but didn't install it "permanently". After running it, there was a significant reduction of used space, at the time some 5 GB. Do you have that update installed and if so, do you use it?
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 

Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2015 at 8:21am
 
@
Dan Goodell

Quote:
I've been using CT Update and its successor, WSUS Offline Update, for around 10 years to (relatively) quickly bring a clean install up to date, ...

Interesting, I never knew about this possibility. I'll read up on it but have a few thoughts already.

Quote:
After downloading is finished attach the external drive to a machine you want to update, and launch the wsusoffline\client\updateinstaller.exe file to start the update process. It will still take time to install the updates, but at least you won't be sitting around waiting for it to also download every update before installing.

With reference to the "Disk Cleanup Wizard addon", when you do the annual update of your computer, does it install missing updates only or are obsolete updates removed, making the addon not needed?

I compared your ExcludeList with my installed updates:

KB971033,windows activation technology, nag update > I have this one installed but have not noticed any nagging. But then, my software is legit (not implying that your software isn't).

KB2823324,Windows kernel-mode driver causes BSOD > I assume that I had this one installed but it was replaced by KB2840149 which was released "out of band". It seems like I read Microsoft Security Bulletin MS13-036 after the release of KB2840149. The reason I believe that, is that KB2823324 is not among my installed updates (in Control Panel > Programs and Features), only KB2840149. I wonder if I had noticed Microsoft's recommendation to uninstall KB2823324 prior to installing KB2840149 if it had not been released "out of band"? It can't be critical to uninstall the previous update since everyone doing it the "easy way" probably had KB2840149 installed over KB2823324, right?

KB2990214,Enables update from 7 to later version > I have this one installed and it may be the reason for my issues. I'll uninstall it and check the behaviour of WU afterwards.

KB3038314,IE11 security update prevents configuration changes > Updates to Internet Explorer are cumulative, right? Wouldn't the problem be transferred to all subsequent cumulative updates to Internet Explorer?
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Goodell
Special Guest
*****
Offline



Posts: 547
N California


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2015 at 4:54pm
 
Regarding specific updates, I don't examine or vet each one, and don't pretend my blacklist is comprehensive. I follow a few Windows forums, and if there's a lot of chatter about a particular KB then I'll add it to my blacklist. For starters, there's a good list here concerning the ongoing GWX and telemetry fiascos.

I skip the "activation technology" updates (both Windows and Office) on principle. The activation technology built into Windows when it was shipped ought to be enough, and I'm not happy with Microsoft conjuring up new ways to sniff around my computer. If my copies of Windows or Office weren't legitimate, the original activation technology built into them would catch that, so why does the activation technology need an update? Is the update for my benefit or Microsoft's?

Furthermore, there are constant, recurring discussions online from people with legit installations suddenly being flagged as illegitimate. Since most people install every update, I wonder what role the activation updates might play in this. If an update is making the process more aggressive, perhaps it's generating false positives. My installation is legit, Windows says it's activated ... that should be end of story. What benefit for me could there possible be in any "activation technology update"?



Quote:
when you do the annual update of your computer, does it install missing updates only or are obsolete updates removed?

I'm not an expert on the Windows update process, but I don't think most updates are uninstalled when obsoleted by a subsequent update. And even when a particular .dll is updated the former version isn't deleted, it's archived so it can be reverted to if the superceding update is rolled back.

In contrast, if obsolete updates were never applied in the first place, then they're not going to get installed when you eventually get around to updating--that's whether you do it by WSUS Offline or online Windows Update. Only the latest patch will be installed. (In fact, I've watched the files in my WSUS Offline cache when I refresh WSUS and have noticed KB updaters getting *removed* when they've been obsoleted.)

For example, if throughout the year MS pushes out updates A, B, C and D, each one superceding the former, then my annual method might get only update D embedded in my pristine image. Your method might get B and D embedded. Everyone else (those who never revert to a pristine image) will get all four updates embedded.

That's the kind of bloat I'm trying to avoid by waiting longer before updating my pristine image.



Quote:
the W7 installation has grown from 13313 MB (january 2011) to 32404 MB (october 2015). [...] that 143% growth ... Huh ... is, more or less, caused by updates to Windows and Office!

The installation on the machine on which I'm writing this is 13GB, and has been updated through Jun 2015. I don't have Office on this particular machine so that would account for some of the difference, but a big portion of the difference between your installation and mine will be orphaned files and other detritus left behind by superceded updates.



Quote:
I'm aware of the Disk Cleanup Wizard addon, I have tested it but didn't install it "permanently". After running it, there was a significant reduction of used space, at the time some 5 GB. Do you have that update installed and if so, do you use it?

Yes, I have it installed, but running it makes practically no difference on my system. It has had dramatic results on some of my customers' systems, though, in some cases recovering 8 or 9 GBs.



 
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #13 - Oct 22nd, 2015 at 3:06pm
 
@
Dan Goodell

Quote:
... but a big portion of the difference between your installation and mine will be orphaned files and other detritus left behind by superceded updates.

I checked my notes and Adobe Acrobat 9 with all updates was installed in january 2013. It accounts for some 3,5 GB but there's still 15 GB "uncontrolled" growth.

I have an Image, created during installation (if my fat fingers should slip) and it contains an activated Window 7, Office 2007 + SP2 and nothing else. I'm considering restoring it, add SP1 for Windows 7, SP3 for Office 2007 and Adobe Acrobat 9. Next, I'll let WSUS Offline Update loose on it.

The tail ... Roll Eyes ... has started wagging the dog!
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Christer
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1273
Sweden


Back to top
Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #14 - Oct 23rd, 2015 at 3:43pm
 
@
NightOwl

Christer wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:37am:
The plot thickens ... Shocked ... and when I find the time, I'll restore an Image and let the computer connect to the internet to run Windows Update without MSE.

I restored an Image and let WU run "as it was", checking for updates to Windows only. The first run was in terms of CPU- and RAM-usage, similar to the previous ones. However, on the second run, WU updated the Windows Update Agent to 7.6.7600.320. That's the version I get when installing MSE but still for Windows only. It made no difference concerning performance and CPU-/RAM-usage.

I restored my Image once more. I uninstalled KB2990214 (on Dan's blacklist) since it was the only update, pertaining to the Windows Update Client, that I had installed. Next, I installed MSE and connected to the internet to get the updates. When that's done, it takes a while longer for WU to complete its search. KB2990214 did'nt reappear, only KB3083710 which is the most recent update to the Windows Update Client. Again, no difference in terms of performance.

Weird, right? If there's any logic to all this, the Windows Update Agent is the prime suspect in the meaning that all this happens on the other side of my firewall.
 

Old chinese proverb:
If I hear - I forget, If I see - I remember, If I do - I understand
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print