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Windows 7 and Windows Update (Read 16317 times)
NightOwl
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #15 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:57am
 
@
Christer

Looks like my initial information has not helped your situation.

Quote:
(forgot how to get the red @) NightOwl

At least I can help with this!
The little down pointing triangle just to the left of the user's name puts that red @ and the users name into the reply box.  Just left click on the triangle.

Christer wrote on Oct 17th, 2015 at 8:10am:
I only have "TrustedInstaller + an instance of svchost.exe that I have identified as culprits.

Here's someone who has chosen to disable *TrustedInstaller* and only re-enable it once a month to do updates:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_d2-Qz2VA0

Apparently, either making a registry change to disable the *Get Windows 10* (GWX) from updating thru Windows Update, or using the *GWX Control Panel* to *Disable Operating System Upgrades in Windows Update*  ( http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove... ) allows for the *New Updates Available* icon returning if it has been missing.  There are multiple reports that this is solving that problem in various comments at http://www.askwoody.com/




 

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Christer
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:40pm
 
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NightOwl

NightOwl wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:57am:
Looks like my initial information has not helped your situation.

Well, every little bit helps, at least it confirms my findings.

NightOwl wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:57am:
At least I can help with this!
The little down pointing triangle just to the left of the user's name puts that red @ and the users name into the reply box.Just left click on the triangle.

Thanks, I'll edit my posts!

NightOwl wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 12:57am:
Here's someone who has chosen to disable *TrustedInstaller* and only re-enable it once a month to do updates:

Yes, there are ways to circumvent this and other problems but I don't understand why WU had to get messed up in the first place? Also, since you and probably others too, don't have the same issues, it seems to be "hit or miss" but what is deciding?

There are other "brainfarts" that made a mess among cumulative and non-cumulative updates for different versions of Internet Explorer. According to KB2957689, for Windows 7 and IE11, KB2929437 is a prerequisite to get future updates.

Quote:
Important note for Internet Explorer 11 systems This update applies only to computers that are running Internet Explorer 11 and that do have update 2919355 (for Windows 8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2) or update 2929437 (for Windows 7 SP1 or Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1) installed. All future security and nonsecurity updates for Internet Explorer 11 require you to have update 2919355 or update 2929437 nstalled in order to receive updates. We recommend that you install update 2919355 or update 2929437 in order to continue to receive updates.


That was true for some time but a few weeks ago, I checked while installing a fresh system (W7), updating Internet Explorer from 8 to 11. After the installation was complete, I connected to the internet and let Windows Update loose. The system was not offered KB2929437 (the prerequisite) but only the most recent cumulative update. Obviously, the "prerequisite KB2929437" is history but I can't help wondering where all the non cumulative updates went? Into the same bin as KB2929437 or is that fresh system lacking some non cumulative updates? (Regard that question as rhetorical ... Lips Sealed ... !)

In addition to that, there were cumulative updates to IE11 but they required an additional, bundled, update to provide full protection. It seemed like a lot of dogwagging at the time ... Roll Eyes ... and probably still ...
 

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Dan Goodell
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #17 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 4:15pm
 
Comparing my current WSUS Offline cache (build date: 09/30/2015) with an older, backup copy I haven't yet updated (build date: 12/31/2014), I note KB2929437 has been removed. My Dec 2014 cache listed several IE11-specific updates that are no longer in the Sep 2015 cache:
    2909210
    2929437
    2936038
    2953522
    2957689
    2962872
    2963952
    3008923
My Sep 2015 cache shows all of the above removed and one new entry: KB3087038, released in Sep 2015. I couldn't find any information online specifically saying so, but my presumption would be 3087038 has replaced the other eight updates.
 
 
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #18 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 4:58pm
 
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Dan Goodell

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 4:15pm:
Comparing my current WSUS Offline cache (build date: 09/30/2015) with an older, backup copy I haven't yet updated (build date: 12/31/2014), I note KB2929437 has been removed. My Dec 2014 cache listed several IE11-specific updates that are no longer in the Sep 2015 cache:
    2909210
    2929437
    2936038
    2953522
    2957689
    2962872
    2963952
    3008923
My Sep 2015 cache shows all of the above removed and one new entry: KB3087038, released in Sep 2015. I couldn't find any information online specifically saying so, but my presumption would be 3087038 has replaced the other eight updates.

Not all of those updates are among my manually downloaded cash but then, our systems differ. KB3087038 is the cumulative upate to Internet Explorer in the september batch of updates. It was replaced by KB3093983, released in october.

In Microsoft Security Bulletin MS15-106 it is remarked:

Quote:
*The Updates Replaced column shows only the latest update in any chain of superseded updates. For a comprehensive list of updates replaced, go to the Microsoft Update Catalog, search for the update KB number, and then view update details (updates replaced information is provided on the Package Details tab).

I've tried to go to Microsoft®Update Catalog but always draw a blank page.

Running WSUS, is there a way to download a list of updates that are selected without actually downloading?
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #19 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 5:42am
 
Christer wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
I've tried to go to Microsoft®Update Catalog but always draw a blank page.

I had trouble, too. But I was able to properly view it with XP/IE7 in a virtual machine.

It seems like it ought to be a nice tool--call up a specific KB update and it has easy to read sections that list which KBs it supercedes, and which (if any) KBs supercede it.

Only problem was it came up empty on most of the test KBs I searched for. Of the 8 KBs listed in my reply #17, Update Catalog found only one.



Quote:
Running WSUS, is there a way to download a list of updates that are selected without actually downloading?

Not with WSUS Offline Update. It's scripted to run all by itself. It first downloads a master database file, wsusscn2.cab. This is evidently a master file cataloging all currently active KBs for all OS's and Office versions. I think WSUS Offline compares that list to your local cache (if you've previously downloaded updates) and then downloads and/or deletes files to/from the local cache to match the master catalog. When you run UpdateInstaller it again consults wsusscn2.cab and compares it to the system on which it's being run, and applies any missing updates without user intervention. Other than using a pre-emptive ExcludeList.txt, at no point does it stop to let you select/reject specific updates.

If you want that kind of control, you might want to take a look at Portable Update instead, an alternative to WSUS Offline. Personally, I have no interest in micro-managing the update process so I've been happy with WSUS Offline, but from screenshots Portable Update apparantly scans the target computer and pauses to show checkboxes of missing updates. That may be more up your alley.




 
 
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #20 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 4:29pm
 
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Dan Goodell

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 25th, 2015 at 5:42am:
If you want that kind of control, you might want to take a look at Portable Update instead, an alternative to WSUS Offline. Personally, I have no interest in micro-managing the update process so I've been happy with WSUS Offline, but from screenshots Portable Update apparantly scans the target computer and pauses to show checkboxes of missing updates. That may be more up your alley.

Well, I still have all the updates in store, including the obsolete ones. I also have a list with these updates and hoped for a cross-reference. I mean, no need to download updates that I already have.

I'll have a look at Portable Update later.
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #21 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 1:47pm
 
Christer wrote on Oct 25th, 2015 at 4:29pm:
Well, I still have all the updates in store, including the obsolete ones. I also have a list with these updates and hoped for a cross-reference. I mean, no need to download updates that I already have.

I'm not sure it would be as straightforward as copying your files to WSUS Offline's cache. For one thing, you'd have to figure out which directories to put them in. For another, I think the updates are in a different format. When I manually download an update from Microsoft Update I get a .msu file, but WSUS Offline downloads in .cab format.



 
 
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #22 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 4:49pm
 
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Dan Goodell

Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 26th, 2015 at 1:47pm:
When I manually download an update from Microsoft Update I get a .msu file, but WSUS Offline downloads in .cab format.

Now I'm confused, how do you know which updates to add to the ExcludeList if there is a cab-file only?

On my current system, it should not download and install anything, if it is possible to exclude optional updates by default, that is. It seems like I'll have to do some tests ... Undecided ... hit the button and run for cover.
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #23 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 6:52pm
 
You don't specify the filenames, you simply list the KB numbers. (See my ExcludeList in reply #9 for examples.) When you identify a particular update that you don't want WSUS Offline to install, open the ExcludeList.txt file and add its KB number.

I like to add the comma and a brief description so I can recall what the KB was about, but the description is optional.

Note that means the KB update will be excluded from all OSs, even though there might be different download filenames for the same KB pertaining to different OSs.

 
 
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #24 - Oct 27th, 2015 at 3:07am
 
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Dan Goodell

Okey, I understand, thanks for your patience!
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #25 - Oct 28th, 2015 at 4:43pm
 
Christer wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 6:04am:
Since Microsoft started promoting the free upgrade to Windows 10, changes have occurred in Windows Update. I'm a true believer in not installing anything that I don't know that my system needs. This means that I have installed very few optional updates, only the "Platform Update for Windows 7" and other optional updates required to install Internet Explorer 11. This means that no updates pertaining to the "free Windows 10 upgrade" or the Windows Update Cient itself have been installed.

As a side note, the updates to the Windows Update Cient are among the "critical/important" updates but they remove the Windows Update Icon from the Notification Area. Don't ask me why the Icon is removed but I like the Icon to be there so, I omit those updates too.

I download the updates manually to the computer and install them off-line. Before installing the new batch of updates, I restore the Ghost Image from previous month and afterwards, I create a fresh Ghost Image. This means that the Windows Update Client is the same as when installed in 2011. There's no problem installing a batch of updates with a single reboot when done.

However, during the month, when Windows Update checks for updates, strange things happen.

My system has an AMD Phenom II, quadcore 3 GHz and 4 GB RAM.

When the computer is started and Windows Update checks for updates, there's a process "TrustedInstaller" and an instance of svchost.exe that combined use 25% of the CPU and several GB of RAM. Total RAM usage is up to 75%. It goes on for some 25 minutes and when done, CPU usage drops to "idling" and RAM usage to 17-18%.

If I try to manually install updates when this "process" is running in the background (not initiated by yours truly), I get to the first one but the second hangs until the "process" has been terminated. Well, I can terminate the "wsus process" and restart the computer between each update but what the heck ... Lips Sealed ... ?

Prior to "Windows 10 promotion", a run of Windows Update took approximately a minute or a few at most.

On a second startup, when Windows Update doesn't check for updates, the computer settles at 25% RAM usage with no excessive CPU usage.

Is there anyone out there with the same experience?

Any thoughts?

I quoted my first post to get back to the initial question. Since I didn't notice the "optional" updates to the Windows Update Client until they were made "important", I didn't read the documentation on the first or rather, second one.

The first one is KB2990214 (must have been imortant - if not, I wouldn't have it installed), released in April. Problems with it lead to the release of KB3050265 in June. Reading the KB-article for that one was interesting and I quote:

Quote:
You can configure this Group Policy object by using Group Policy (if the update is installed and if you use the updated WindowsUpdate.admx file by copying the file from where the editing policy is located). You can also do this by going to Computer Configuration > Policies > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update, double-clicking Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update, and then clicking Enabled.

Policy path Computer Configuration / Administrative Templates / Windows Components / Windows Update

Policy setting Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update (enabled or disabled)

To suppress this offer through the registry, set the following registry key:

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate

DWORD: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

I created one reg-file to set it "ON" (1) and another to set it "OFF" (0).

I restored my most recent image (including KB2990214), installed KB3083710, the most recent update to the Windows Update Client (they replace eachother consecutively) but did NOT apply the regedit. Finally, I installed MSE and checked the behaviour when connecting to internet. It was slightly better than before. The time was the same (~25 minutes) and also the CPU-usage (~25%) but RAM-usage had dropped from ~75% to ~50%. I restarted the computer to verify that the WU-icon was missing from the Notification Area. These results are no news, I noted them already in post #6 but with slightly different "preconditions". No standing ovations and my hope was for the regedit.

I, again, restored the image and this time, I also applied the regedit. The result was approximately the same and I was disappointed until I restarted and found that ... Shocked ... the WU-icon was there. I can't find a single word in that KB-article about a missing icon that gets restored, can you?

I will let the system run with KB3083710 + the regedit for a while to find out the long term performance. One thing is certain, though: the "fix" will not be included in my next image ... Cool ... !
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #26 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 3:31pm
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 20th, 2015 at 10:00pm:
I agree with NightOwl that Windows Update has become a disaster. For me it reached that point a few years ago, before the current GWX debacle. For about 3 years now, I've been turning Windows Update completely OFF on all the systems I support. I gave up on the "Let me choose" option when MS started sneaking certain updates by and auto-installing despite the "Let me choose" setting.

And now, as reported here and in numerous other places, Microsoft is making it harder to dodge Windows 10:

    In early 2016 things will become more aggressive and Microsoft will again reclassify Windows 10 as a "Recommended" update. Given the default setting on Windows 7 and Windows 8 is for all Recommended updates to install automatically this means the vast majority of users will find the Windows 10 install process starts up on their machines.

    The end result is a dramatic change of focus. While users will still be able to cancel the Windows 10 installation process, it means proactive effort will now be required to stop the upgrade as opposed to proactive agreement to start it.

    Given Windows 10’s status will remain as a Recommended Update, however, it means even those who proactively stop it are likely to find the install process initiating every time new Recommended updates appear. The irritation value of this alone is likely to see many concede.


To reiterate what I stated earlier, I think it's now time we all turn off automatic updates as a matter of routine. Maybe we'll be left more exposed to hackers, but Microsoft has become a greater threat to our computers than hackers.



 
 
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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #27 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 2:54am
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 3:31pm:
I gave up on the "Let me choose" option when MS started sneaking certain updates by and auto-installing despite the "Let me choose" setting.

Isn't that what antivirus solutions are supposed to prevent ... Roll Eyes ... malicious drive-by installations?

I'll probably stick to my monthly routine ...  Cool ... !
 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #28 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:15am
 
Christer wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
I've tried to go to Microsoft®Update Catalog but always draw a blank page.

I managed to get it working on Windows 7 SP1, starting Internet Explorer 11 from the programs menu by right-clicking and "run as administrator". Clicking the link initiated installation of an ActiveX Control. After that, I can start Microsoft Update Catalog the normal way and it works. My account is adminstrator but obviously not administrative enough to install the ActiveX control.


 

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Re: Windows 7 and Windows Update
Reply #29 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:23pm
 
@
Christer, and
@
Dan Goodell, and all

Just a general comment and rhetorical question:

with the current Windows Update status in total disarray, and everyone cherry picking which update(s) to install--and, seems like everyone is using a different set of criteria to decide which update to install--how can we have any idea what the current status of our own system is (are there unknown or unintended consequences if we have not applied a certain update--or series of updates) vs how that relates to someone else's system who may have applied or not applied other updates?

Just seems like total chaos!

(But, I guess that has always been an ongoing issue--we have a myriad number of different hardware configuations and installed software--who knows what's really going on!!!!!!)

 

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