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Transferring Win10 to different hardware (Read 7976 times)
Dan Goodell
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #15 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 2:59pm
 
Tator wrote on Jul 21st, 2016 at 5:35pm:
I've read in other forums discussion and debate about Microsoft charging a monthly fee for Win10 use.  Some say that's for Enterprise version only while others ponder whether it may include all Win10 version in the future.

Nobody knows for sure. Microsoft haven't said, and I suspect they aren't even sure themselves what direction they will take.

It seems like they'll have to monetize their R&D somehow. The three most obvious business models would be to either (a) sell it, (b) make it a subscription service, or (c) make it ad supported.

Given Microsoft's headlong push away from (a), they probably won't go back to that.

Office as a subscription service (Office 365 vs Office 2016) is already in the marketplace, and feels to me like a beta test to get the market used to that distribution model. My bet is that's the most likely future for Windows.

Ad-supported may be a stick to make subscriptions more palatable--say, allow users to use Windows for free if they accept ads, or buy a subscription to eliminate the ads. That strategy seems to be working for Amazon's Kindle*, and Microsoft is reportedly already experimenting with ads in Win10's browser. So I see ad-supported as a possible second choice to get consumers to warm to the subscription model. Plus, Microsoft wouldn't be painting themselves into a corner by current claims that Windows will always be "free".



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going back to Win7/8.1 from a Win10 upgrade after 7/29 would require purchase of a new license.  Does anybody know if that is true and if it applies even if Win7/8.1 images are restored instead of using the Windows reversion option?

That is not true for OEM 7/8.x licenses. All the upgrades I have done are from OEM licenses, and I have had no trouble with any of them reverting to an image of the prior OS. The prior OS still shows it's activated.

I have not done any upgrades from a retail license, so can't speak from experience with regard to that. Maybe Brian has experience with that.

Note that the "Windows reversion option", as you call it, should apply to OEM or retail, regardless. It is merely a 30-day window during which you can uninstall the upgrade. (That's the purpose of keeping the windows.old folder that is created during the upgrade process.)

After 30 days Windows won't uninstall the upgrade, regardless of whether you started with a OEM license or retail. However, that's a different process from restoring a backup image, which you can always do without a time limit.



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it is stated there is no control over Windows updates in Win10?  Is this true?

True for the Home edition. You'll get the updates Microsoft pushes out, when they push them out, like it or not.

In the Pro edition you can defer updates for a month or two, but you still can't decline them. You'll get them, but you have a little control over when they get installed.



* Edit: not that the Kindle is free, but I'm talking about the model of a low price with ads vs. higher price to eliminate ads.


 
 
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Christer
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #16 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 3:29am
 
Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 2:59pm:
True for the Home edition. You'll get the updates Microsoft pushes out, when they push them out, like it or not.


... and that's a pain in the rear end. I bought a new laptop a few months ago. It has worked well until recently when the touchpad stopped working. It works on the login screen but once logged in, it quits.

Had this occurred on Win 7, I hade rolled back using an image and installed the updates one by one to isolate the culprit. No such option on Win 10 Home or Win 10 whichever version, I think. It seems to be "one update fits all" and it contains all corrections of the month.

I normally use a USB-mouse but with some luck, the touchpad driver will get fixed.
 

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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #17 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 7:59pm
 
Another test today. The source computer was a 12" Asus tablet with Win10 Home, 32-bit, installed in UEFI mode with an ESP, Win10 partition and Recovery partition but without a MSR (these tablets are all like that). The multi-partition image was restored to a desktop computer in UEFI mode. The restored Win10 wouldn't boot. Just the BIOS appeared. BCDEdit looked fine as did the partitions. I tried the TeraByte Unlimited TBIDTool with the uninstalling of drivers option. Same result. Failed.

The target disk was converted from GPT to MBR and Win10 booted in MBR mode. Success.

The target disk was converted from MBR to GPT but Win10 failed to boot in UEFI mode.

Overall I'd call this a success as Win10 was able to boot on the target computer.

I'll answer the other questions later today.
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #18 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 1:14am
 
My earlier restores were single partition restores. Today was the first multi-partition restore.

I've upgraded two computers with retail Win8 licenses and it was no different from upgrading an OEM system.

I plan to try restoring a Win10 image from my son's UEFI desktop computer to my desktop test computer to see if I can get it to load Win10 while in UEFI mode.
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #19 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 2:01am
 
The source Win10 OS was 64-bit with the four standard partitions. An entire drive image was restored to an empty SSD in the target computer. The restored OS booted, then "Getting devices ready" was seen for a few minutes, then Win10 loaded fully. On checking it was Activated.

Interesting!!!
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #20 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 5:29am
 
Christer wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 3:29am:
I normally use a USB-mouse but with some luck, the touchpad driver will get fixed.


Well, the touchpad had been deactivated. After reactivating, it works again. I didn't deactivate it and the only other "entity" messing with my laptop is ... Angry ... Windows Bloody Update!

EDITED: Immediately after reactivating the touchpad, I posted this message. Immediately after that, I went to check the update history. To my suprise ... Roll Eyes ... there was a new update for "Elan - Other hardware - ELAN Input Device". I rest my case ... Lips Sealed ... !
 

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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #21 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:43am
 
A later post in that thread in the link given in reply #14 corrects the post that says no going back after 7/29, and the correction says you have 30 days to go back  Another thing I've learned is there is little to no control of Windows updates in Win10.  There's a many steps process in a later post at above link to disable automatic updates as well as a simpler way to disable automatic updates for Professional version only on how to disable automaic updates or configure how updates are received and installed plus a way to trick Windows to disable automatic updates for networks at http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-dow... .  In any case there is no way to review and select updates to install, unfortunately.  Either all updates must be installed or none of them.  This is an idiotic blunder for Microsoft imo.  For example I get update notification for Office 2010 update, and Office 2010 is not on my system.  I also read something about downloading and using Portable Update that does allow selecting updates to install.  Does anybody here know anything about using that program?

I've upgrade 2 desktops thus far with no problems yet.  There's 1 Dell laptop I'd like to upgrade, and I read something about laptops having hidden partitions.  Is there anything special I need do to create backup of all partitions of current laptop before doing the upgrade?
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #22 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 11:20am
 
@
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Tator wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:43am:
There's 1 Dell laptop I'd like to upgrade, and I read something about laptops having hidden partitions.Is there anything special I need do to create backup of all partitions of current laptop before doing the upgrade?


Can you post a screenshot of Disk Management? That will help us decide what to do.
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #23 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 12:18pm
 
Tator wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:43am:
For example I get update notification for Office 2010 update, and Office 2010 is not on my system.


Do you by chance have the "file validation tool" installed on Office 2007? If so, some updates that are offered are for Office 2010. Just like the "compatibility pack" for Office 2003/XP will trigger updates for Office 2007.
 

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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #24 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 1:47pm
 
I don't know how to post a screen shot.  I'm glad to do it if somebody can tell me how.  I can tell you Disk Management shows 3 partitions which are 102MB Healthy (OEM), 14.65GB Recovery and 581.42GB OS(C:).  The 1 that's 102MB has diagonal lines across it going from bottom left to top right.   

I have Office 2003 with the compatibility pack which does show Office 2007 updates, but I wouldn't think that would casue it to show Office 2010 updates.  Do you think the compatibility could have installed Office 2007 Validation Tool?
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #25 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 2:49pm
 
Brian wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 1:14am:
I've upgraded two computers with retail Win8 licenses and it was no different from upgrading an OEM system.

Maybe it was me misreading, but I interpreted the source Tator was referencing in reply #14 to be with regard to whether the Win10 upgrade deactivated the Win 7/8.1 registration key. IME a Win10 upgrade does not invalidate an OEM 7/8.1 key, but I wondered about retail keys.

As I read it, the question wasn't whether you could upgrade a retail Win8 key, it was whether you could restore an image of a retail Win8 after the upgrade and whether it would still be validly activated.

Upon rereading I was probably misinterpreting the question, but it would still be interesting to hear if you've tested restoring from an image of the old OS in the retail systems you upgraded.


 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #26 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 3:22pm
 
Christer wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 5:29am:
Immediately after reactivating the touchpad, I posted this message. Immediately after that, I went to check the update history. To my suprise ...... there was a new update for "Elan - Other hardware - ELAN Input Device". I rest my case ...... !

Yes, that's one of my biggest concerns with forced hardware updates. In my years of experience I've seen way too many botched systems caused by Microsoft updating an OEM manufacturer's customized drivers.

Supposedly, driver updates can be disabled--see here. But I went to check my Win10 installation to see how mine was set, and I didn't have that option.



BTW, my Win10 is a multiboot partition, but I haven't booted it in a few weeks. For the above check I thought I'd quickly pop over to the Win10 side to check the settings and then pop right back here to my main OS (Win7).

"Quickly" wasn't an option--Win10's Windows Update locked up my computer for over 10 minutes and wouldn't let me shut down. It's irritating when you can't say, "I'm in a hurry, so now is not a good time."



BTW, if Win10's telemetry tracking gives you the willies, note that it's about to get worse. In the new update due to be released in the next few weeks, Microsoft is removing the option to disable Cortana, which listens for voice commands. So if you're worried about Win10 spying on you, now it's going to be more difficult to stop it from listening in on you, as well.




 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #27 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 3:43pm
 
Tator wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 1:47pm:
Disk Management shows 3 partitions which are 102MB Healthy (OEM), 14.65GB Recovery and 581.42GB OS(C:).

The first partition is the hidden DellUtility partition. It's pretty much useless. It contains the Dell Diagnostics utility, but you can do the same things with the Dell Diagnostics utility downloadable from the Dell website. You can image it if you want, but it doesn't always work properly if you should ever need to restore the partition from your image.

The second and third are the only partitions you really need to image. Neither is hidden. However, note that if you should ever need to restore those two you'd probably also need to repair your BCD or Windows won't boot. Restoring just two means their positions will be different from where they were originally. Repairing the BCD is not hard (I use the BCD editor in Terabyte's BootIt-BM).

My suggestion is to image all three partitions. If you have to restore, then restore all three. The first one may or may not work after a restore, but that's no big deal because you'll probably never use it anyway. But by restoring all three, that will force the position of the latter two to fall into their original positions, which should make it more likely you wouldn't need a BCD repair.



 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #28 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 4:14pm
 
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Dan Goodell wrote on Jul 26th, 2016 at 2:49pm:
but it would still be interesting to hear if you've tested restoring from an image of the old OS in the retail systems you upgraded.


That's what I have in this computer. Multi-booting.

Win10 upgraded from Win8.1
Win8.1 image restored after the above upgrade
etc

All Win OS are Activated.
 
 
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Re: Transferring Win10 to different hardware
Reply #29 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 4:49pm
 
Disk Management for my Desktop shows only the partitions Windows created when I installed Windows on a new drive, and that's what Discwizard sees when I create/restore images.  Will Discwizard see all 3 partitions on the laptop?  Note I run Discwizard from a BartPE CD if that makes any difference.
 
 
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