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El_Pescador

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #30 - Jul 5^th, 2005 at 9:42pm

dgroover -

The two tables below illustrate USB 2.0 host controller and USB 2.0 device controller specifications I have gleaned while trying to ensure compatibility of USB 2.0 external HDD enclosure kits with DOS-based Norton Ghost 2003:

Where I am severely lacking is for information about "purpose-built" external HDDs such as yours. So far, only piikea has demonstrated access to Western Digital HDDs hereabouts (plus chuckychez contributed later on with details on his Seagate 160GB USB 2.0 external HDD) in Norton Ghost 2003, and at that it took NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Driver routine to pull it off. His 80GB Western Digital "purpose-built" external HDD could not access Ghost 2003 via the conventional Norton/Iomega drivers embedded in Ghost 2003. This in turn indicates that the USB 2.0 bridge chipset and concomitiant device controller software provided by Western Digital are not capable of "Windows-to-DOS-to-Windows" operations such as Ghost 2003 or maybe even certain phases of Norton Partition Magic 8.0.

Since you have switched back from Norton Ghost 9.0 to Ghost 2003, any information you can provide about your Western Digital 120GB "purpose-built" external HDD and USB 2.0 host controller can really prove helpful - both to you right now and then to others downstream with similar problems.

From what I can tell up to now, USB 2.0 host controllers have eventually shaken out to either

VID=8086h

or

VID=1033h

- and no other thusfar. So, what I am now able to do with a fair degree of certainty is counsel someone as to: (1) whether or not they will need a PCI-to-USB Host Adapter Card despite having USB 2.0 ports on their systemboard - and which model cards are compliant with Ghost 2003 operations; and (2) whether or not adopting NightOwl's Panasonic Universal USB Drivers routine will render their hitherto incompatible external enclosure kit Ghost 2003-compatible. With help from you, chuckychez, and piikea, we can continue to expand from enclosure kits to "purpose-built" HDDs right off the shelf.

In your situation, there is only a single configuration to deal with, i.e., USB 2.0. In clarification, let me say that it is not your hardware I am really focusing on - it is the fact of whether or not those software drivers you are employing with it could permit DOS-based Norton Ghost 2003 operations. Nonetheless, knowing the make and model of your PCI-to-USB card will help in cross-referencing later on.

On the host end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing the word

'Enhanced'

. On the destination end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing the phrase

'Mass Storage Device'

.

To take a shot at revealing the particulars of both your

USB 2.0 host controller(s)

and your

USB 2.0 device controller(s)

, follow the procedure below:

(1) go to Desktop and right click on My Computer;

(2) drop down to left click on Manage;

(3) in left pane, expand System Tools;

(4) in left pane, drop down to left click on Device Manager;

(5) for both USB controllers and mass storage devices in right pane, expand Universal Serial Bus controllers;

(6) for USB Mass Storage Devices, skip down to (7) - else for USB 2.0 controllers, focus on those lines containing either the abbreviation

'USB2'

or the word

'Enhanced'

, then go to (7);

(7) right click on any such lines that drop down, then left click on Properties;

(8) left click on the Details tab;

(9) left click on the dropdown menu containing Device Instance Id; and

(10) left click on

Hardware Ids

and carefully transcribe the last two lines in the window. To be overly generous, drop down two more lines and repeat for

Matching Device Id

.

The image below reveals the functional USB 2.0 controller on the Macally PHR-100A enclosure (note that on my Dell Dimension 8300, I have three

'Enhanced'

USb controllers listed - including the poisonous Intel 80281EB):

BTW, this very morning I received an Iomega 80GB USB 2.0 "purpose-built" external HDD from Outpost.com with a net cost of $40 after MIR (not counting shipping). As I am currently battening down for a direct hit by (what so far is near-) Hurricane Cindy a little after midnight, I will unpack it in a few days.

El Pescador

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dgroover

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #31 - Jul 5^th, 2005 at 11:59pm

El_Pescador,

Wow, where do I start. My hard drive is a WD found here:
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=108
I am not sure of the make of my USB card. It has an ALi chipset M5273. That is all I know about it. The reason I bought it was my current computer only has USB 1.1. Ghost 9.0 took 5 hours to back up my hard drive at USB 1.1 speeds and 30 minutes at USB 2.0 speeds. Off to device manager.
USB mass storage device HW ID:
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Rev_0412&Mi_00
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Mi_00

Matching device ID:
usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50

I hope that is all you wanted. Let me know if there is anything else. Stay safe.

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #32 - Jul 6^th, 2005 at 1:00am

dgroover -

You have the destination end of the bridge - the device controller - covered very well. Now, we even know the chipset of the PCI-to-USB host adapter - but I am still curious about the detailed properties of any and all lines that contain the word

'Enhanced'

or

'USB2'

.

"...On the host end of the "bridge", the useful items are in properties of only those terminal "branch(es)" on the Universal Serial Bus controllers "tree" containing the word

'Enhanced'

..."

(6) for USB Mass Storage Devices, skip down to (7) -

else for USB 2.0 controllers, focus on those lines containing either the abbreviation 'USB2' or the word 'Enhanced', then go to (7);

(7) right click on any such lines that drop down, then left click on Properties;...

The Hardware Ids will start with the characters

'PCI\'

. In the image below, look on the line right above the red arrow for the word

'Enhanced'

...

I am marveling at the fact that I still have electric power and DSL service. I suspect that when dawn breaks, Cindy will have changed all that unless she veers radically to the east during the night. Right now, the highest winds will strike us from the NORTH if she holds to the current track.

El Pescador

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #33 - Jul 6^th, 2005 at 1:54pm

El_Pescador

Hope you are surviving the weather issues okay!

If this helps your data base information:

I have an Adaptec PCI USB 2.0 adaptor card. From Device Mgr:

'Adaptec AUA-3121 PCI to USB

Enhanced

Host Contoller'

Hardware Ids--last two lines:

PCI\VEN_1033&DEV_00E0&CC_0C0320
PCI\VEN_1033&DEV_00E0&CC_0C03

Matching Device Id:

pci\ven_1033&dev_00e0&subsys_02e09004

*****************************************

And I have an Iomega USB 2.0 'purpose built' 40 GB HDD:

Hardware Ids:

USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0075&Rev_1100
USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0075

Matching Device Id:

usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50

Both the Norton Ghost USB driver and the Panasonic USB driver work fine with this combination.

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are Wink

!
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use. Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #34 - Jul 6^th, 2005 at 4:32pm

dgroover

As you may have gathered from El_Pescador, not every USB controller chipset is compatible with every DOS USB driver.

1. Have you tried the Norton Ghost USB DOS driver using the Ghost Boot Wizard?

2. I assume you are loading the Panasonic USB driver v2.06. There has been two additional versions released that you could try:

v2.15

, size=39,093, dated 10/26/2003

v2.20

, size=39,179, dated 11/07/2004

These are self-extracting files. You will find USBASPI.SYS in the F2H subdirectory.

Let us know if the newer versions offer compatibility with your PCI USB add-in controller card.

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are Wink

!
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #35 - Jul 8^th, 2005 at 1:37am

NightOwl wrote on Jul 6^th, 2005 at 1:54pm:

"... And I have an Iomega USB 2.0 'purpose built' 40 GB HDD:

Hardware Ids:

USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0075&Rev_1100
USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0075

Matching Device Id:

usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50

Both the Norton Ghost USB driver and the Panasonic USB driver work fine with this combination..."

My new 80GB USB 2.0 'purpose built' Iomega HDD has the following characteristics -

Hardware Ids:

USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0177&Rev_0001
USB\Vid_059b&Pid_0177

Matching Device Id:

usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50

Despite widespread power outages and fallen trees from winds stronger than expected for Tropical Storm Cindy, the anticipated street flooding from rainfall did not occur although there was some very brief tidal flooding along shorelines as the storm center passed to the east of us. We are watching Hurricane Dennis with a terrible sense of dread, however.

El Pescador

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	Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More! Reply #36 - Jul 8^th, 2005 at 8:44pm Success! I used USBASPI.SYS version 2.20 and it found my USB hard drive with no problems and I was able to Ghost both of my internal drives. Thanks alot guys.
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #37 - Jul 8^th, 2005 at 9:16pm

dgroover wrote on Jul 8^th, 2005 at 8:44pm:

"... I used USBASPI.SYS version 2.20 and it found my USB hard drive with no problems and I was able to Ghost both of my internal drives..."

Thanks for reporting back with the good news. However, for the common good, please consider filling us in on the details posed in the inquiry below:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=10954...

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	Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More! Reply #38 - Jul 9^th, 2005 at 11:41am dgroover Quote: I used USBASPI.SYS version 2.20 and it found my USB hard drive with no problems and I was able to Ghost both of my internal drives. Thanks alot guys. Thanks for reporting back with what worked for you !
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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #39 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 2:02pm

NightOwl wrote on Sep 17^th, 2004 at 1:24pm:

To all

Why is this a better driver--see my reasons at the end of this post.

I started working on this after I posted this question in this forum and did not receive much response:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=10897...

The original resources I have used are as follows:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10215

http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/203.html

http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html

http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

I will call this the 'Panasonic Universal USB Driver'.

So I have created a boot floppy as follows:

[config.sys]

Device=himem.sys
rem :The following line loads Panasonic's universal USB-controller driver
rem :those are spaces between the file name and each of the switches
rem :The '/e' switch forces USB 2.0 only, remove for USB 1.x also
Device=usbaspi.sys /e /v
rem :The following is an aspi mass storage driver for usb-connected HDD's
rem :and compactflash memory cards
rem :The 'Motto Hairu USB Driver'
Device=di1000dd.sys
Dos=high,umb
Lastdrive=z

[autoexec.bat]

rem :My USB HDD is drive 'l', if you wish, you will have to change this
rem :in your path statement to match your USB HDD drive letter
path=a:\;c:\;c:\pqmagic;l:\;l:\pqmagic
mouse.com
rem :Type 'rem' and a space in front of 'ghost' below
rem :if you do not want ghost to automatically load on bootup
ghost

[Files on the Floppy Disk]

Autoexec.bat
Command.com
Config.sys
Di1000dd.sys
Himem.sys
Io.sys
Mouse.com
Mouse.ini
Msdos.sys
Usbasipi.sys

How to create the boot disk and where to find the files:
(I'm using Win98se for the following)

-Put a blank floppy in the drive
-Open Windows Explorer
-Right-click the '3 1/2 ( A: )
-Choose 'Format...'
-Select 'Full' and 'Display summary when finished'
and 'Copy system files'
-Make sure you have full capacity and no bad
sectors after formating, i.e. a good floppy
-Check the files on the floppy, you should have:
Command.com
Drvspace.bin
Io.sys
Msdos.sys
-I delete the 'drvspace.bin' as it's not needed

-Now create the config.sys and autoexec.bat files
-open Wordpad and copy and paste the text lines under
[Config.sys] above into Wordpad
-then 'save as' config.sys to the floppy in drive A:\

-then open a new document for Wordpad and copy and paste
the text lines under [Autoexec.bat] above into Wordpad
-then 'save as' autoexec.bat to the floppy in drive A:\

-Copy the Himem.sys to the floppy-it can be found in the Windows
directory

-Mouse.com can be found in this directory if you have installed
Norton Ghost 2003:

C:\WINDOWS\All Users\Application Data\Symantec\Ghost\Template\common

or if you have PartitionMagic v8.x, it's here:

C:\Program Files\PowerQuest\PartitionMagic 8.0\DOS

-Put a copy of Mouse.com on the floppy disk

-The first time Mouse.com runs when you boot, it will create Mouse.ini
on the floppy for you

-The last two files are found on Rad's download page at the bottom where
it says 'USB-DOS files': http://radified.com/Files/

-After you download the 'usb-dos.zip' file, you will need to extract the files

-The kxlrw40an.exe is a self-extracting file you have to execute
-it contains the Panasonic Driver 'usbaspi.sys' in the F2H directory
-copy the 'usbaspi.sys' file to the floppy

-The mhairudo.zip has the di1000dd.sys file
-extract the file
-copy it to the floppy
-Warning: There is a 'usbaspi.sys' file here too--it's the wrong
one! Use the one above from the kxlrw40an.exe file.

So what have I done here:

Ghost will not fit on the boot floppy with the other drivers and files. So I have copied the Ghost.exe to the root directory of the C:\ drive.

PartitionMagic v8.x has a sub-directory labeled 'DOS' (C:\Program Files\PowerQuest\PartitionMagic 8.0\DOS) which has the necessary dos files to run PartitionMagic under dos. So I created a sub-directory on the C:\ drive and I labeled it 'pqmagic' and copied the files from PartitionMagic's DOS sub-directory to my 'pqmagic' directory. I chose 'pqmagic' because that's the program name that loads PartitionMagic when using dos and it reminds me what to type to start PartitionMagic.

My USB 2.0 hard drive always gets the drive letter 'L' assigned to it when booting, so I have put drive letter 'L' in the autoexec.bat path statement (you will have to change your path statement to match your USB HDD letter, if you wish this functionality), and also copied Ghost.exe and the 'pqmagic' sub-directory to the USB 2.0 hard drive's root directory. So if the C:\ drive has been trashed, then the files are available on the USB 2.0 hard drive too.

In the autoexec.bat path statement, I have told the dos session to look for Ghost.exe and Pqmagic.exe in A:\, C:\, C:\pqmagic, L:\, and L:\pqmagic, and once it finds the program file, it will load and open the program. I have set the command in the autoexec.bat file to run Ghost automatically when I boot. If you do not want this to happen, delete the 'Ghost' line, or put 'rem + a space' in front of the 'Ghost' line so the line is ignored when read during bootup.

So why is this a better USB 2.0 DOS driver?:

1. When booting it loads much faster and mounts and assigns drive letters more quickly.

2. The Panasonic Universal USB driver may be a more 'universal' USB 2.0 driver that is compatible with more USB 2.0 components. (Symantec clearly states that it's Iomega driver has limited compatibility: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/1999062808022225?

3. The Panasonic Universal USB driver was able to mount my Adaptec USB 2.0 powered hub and access the HDD through the hub, so I do not have to unplug my USB 2.0 HDD from the hub, and route the wiring directly to the PCI USB 2.0 adapter card port.

4. The USB 2.0 transfer rate for Ghost was noticeably faster. Using the Norton's Iomega USB 2.0 driver, I got a image creation speed of 295 MB/min and an image integrity check speed of 374 MB/min.

With the Panasonic Universal USB driver, I got an image creation speed of 551 MB/min, and an image integrity check speed of 1024 MB/min!

5. Using the Panasonic Univeral USB driver I was able to use the DOS version of PartitionMagic to access and perform all partitioning activities on the USB 2.0 HDD, again through the powered hub if I wanted to.

6. Using the Panasonic Univeral USB driver I was able to use Fdisk under DOS to access and perform all partitioning activities on the USB 2.0 HDD, again through the powered hub if I wanted to.

7. Using the Panasonic Univeral USB driver, if a memory card was loaded in my Lexar USB 2.0 Multi-Card Reader, I was able to mount the card reader, and the driver assigned a drive letter to the memory card, and I had access to the files on the memory card under DOS.

I put Ghost.exe on the memory card while in Windows, and then used the memory card to load Ghost after booting to DOS! And the memory card showed up in Ghost as a drive that could be imaged. I Ghosted (is that a word?

) it and the integrity check was successful!

(Note:--I went back and tested Norton's Iomega USB driver and discovered that it too will mount the Lexar Multi-Card Reader if a memory card is in the reader before booting.)

8. This driver is the same one mentioned in this thread: http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=10759...

and is referenced in the Ghost Guide here at the bottom of the page: http://ghost.radified.com/ghost_caveat.htm

So based on the information in this thread, the Panasonic driver appears to work fine with a NOTEBOOK & PCMIA CARD USB hardware.

Remember, your mileage may vary--this is what worked on my system.

I'm hoping El_Pescador is willing and able to try this out on his two USB 2.0 external enclosure kits to let us know if this works for those, and if the performance changes any. See here:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=10941...

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #40 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 3:17pm

Thanks again for your help, guys. Here is the information about my USB PCI card:

USB 2.0 Root Hub HW ID:
{4B571702-E6C6-4db1-A2C6-FD1D53A70FC3}\EHCI_ROOT_HUB
Matching device ID is same except no caps on any letters.

ALi PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller HW ID:
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&SUBSYS_523910B9&REV_01
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&SUBSYS_523910B9
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&CC_0C0320
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&CC_0C03

Matching Device ID:
pci\ven_10b9&dev_5239&cc_0c03

Mass Storage Device HW ID:
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Rev_0412&Mi_00
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Mi_00

Matching Device ID:
usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50

If there is anything else, let me know.

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #41 - Jul 14^th, 2005 at 5:08pm

[quote author=dgroover link=1095438251/30#40 date=1121372265]"... Here is the information about my USB PCI card -

ALi PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller HW ID:
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&SUBSYS_523910B9&REV_01
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&SUBSYS_523910B9
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&CC_0C0320
PCI\VEN_10B9&DEV_5239&CC_0C03

Matching Device ID:
pci\ven_10b9&dev_5239&cc_0c03

Mass Storage Device HW ID:
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Rev_0412&Mi_00
USB\Vid_1058&Pid_0401&Mi_00

Matching Device ID:
usb\class_08&subclass_06&prot_50..." [/quote]dgroover -

The two tables below illustrate USB 2.0 host controller and USB 2.0 device controller specifications I have gleaned while trying to ensure compatibility of USB 2.0 external HDD enclosure kits with DOS-based Norton Ghost 2003:

From what I could tell up until now, USB 2.0 host controllers have eventually shaken out to either

VID=8086h

or

VID=1033h

- and no other thusfar. Thanks to your cooperative efforts, we now know of a third USB 2.0 host controller category - tentatively

VID=10B9h

!!!

Take note on the CONTROLLER line in the image below where

VID=8086h

and

VID=1033h

appear, and whenever possible transcribe the counterpart for your PCMIA controller when you are initiating a DOS-based Ghost 2003 procedure. Altering your config.sys to reflect the following:

Device=usbaspi.sys /e

/w

/v

will facilitate matters. It may very well to turn out to be

VID=10B9h

, but we won't know for sure until you report back.

Actually, the bottom line here is that the string values found in the

VID=

statement are very useful in choosing between file system formats - FAT32 or NTFS - in USB 2.0 external devices.

El Pescador

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Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
Reply #42 - Jul 21^st, 2005 at 4:00pm

Hmmm,

I am goin'crazy. Barts PE did not quite work for me. Creating boot disks the way you guys did (i followed the thread using MagicIso) did not lead to the desired result.
I have just spent two whole weeks reinstalling my machine and I really need to have a bootable CD for XP home with Ghost on it so that I can restore my backup.

I created a bootable CD with Ghost on it but when starting I get an error saying that I need to eject the disc and to press a key. Do these bootable CD's work for XP?
Pls help I am in deep trouble as I have to process some wedding pictures, snik.....

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	Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More! Reply #43 - Jul 21^st, 2005 at 4:48pm Quote: "... I am goin'crazy ... Barts PE did not quite work for me ... I am in deep trouble as I have to process some wedding pictures, snik..." Are 3.5-inch floppies completely outside your setup ? *El Pescador*
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	Re: A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More! Reply #44 - Jul 21^st, 2005 at 5:20pm Wow, quick response! Actually floppy is in the setup it is just that I prefer a bootable CD. Is it possible to use a Win98 startup disk for XP Home?
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