Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencing (Read 47215 times)
Rad
Radministrator
*****
Offline


Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #30 - Nov 23rd, 2006 at 12:06am
 
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 

El_Pescador
Übermensch
*****
Offline


Thumbs Up!

Posts: 1605
Bayou Country, USA


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #31 - Nov 23rd, 2006 at 7:44am
 
sumrica wrote on Nov 22nd, 2006 at 10:36pm:
"... Have you been out to the airport lately?  Any activity?  Heck, let's get Rad to build us an aviators forum..."

Regrettably, I fear that aviation and flight-simming are a closed chapter in my life - thanks to Katrina.

As to forums, the Sim-Outhouse used to be my favorite hangout.

EP
Cry
 

...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #32 - Nov 24th, 2006 at 1:25pm
 
Well, I don’t fish or fly, so . . .

I decided to try to replicate the research reported in the article How File Fragmentation Occurs on Windows XP to test the hypothesis advocated by PerfectDisk that "Consolidating the free space makes the creation of new files contiguous and therefore minimizes refragmentation of your drive" (see Reply #12 and #13).
    1.  Defragmented the C-drive, resulting in zero fragmented files.
    2.  Disabled Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier, so that it would not defragment files during the period of the test.
    3.  Launched Internet Explorer 7 with Google as the home page.
    4.  Navigated to the CNET home webpage.
    5.  Navigated to the CNN home webpage.
    6.  Exited Internet Explorer 7.
    7.  Analyzed the C-drive, to discover whether any fragmented files exist.
The result?  The simple act of looking at three webpages produced a total of 44 fragmented files.

This empirical study argues against the assertion that "Consolidating the free space makes the creation of new files contiguous and therefore minimizes refragmentation of your drive."

Because Windows XP fragments files whether or not free space is consolidated, there appears to be no advantage to consolidating all free space into one contiguous segment, as noted by Microsoft and Diskeeper.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #33 - Nov 24th, 2006 at 2:16pm
 
Pleonasm, I repeated your test and Perfect Disk reports 5 fragmented files. I wonder how each advertising department would present these figures.
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #34 - Nov 24th, 2006 at 3:56pm
 
Brian, I really wouldn't interpret the difference in the number of fragmented files in your test versus mine as meaningful, regardless of which is smaller.  Any discrepancy could quite likely be due, for example, to the different content displayed on the CNET and CNN home webpages which are continually changing and which are tailored to each country (Australia versus the USA).  The key point is not how many fragmented files were generated – rather, it is the fact that fragmentation occurred so readily.  Thus, we are both confirming that PerfectDisk's statement "Consolidating the free space makes the creation of new files contiguous" is highly suspect.

As Diskeeper has noted, "'consolidating every piece of free space' is no guarantee that newly arriving files won't be fragmented by the file system.  That was a maxim on FAT volumes in DOS, but certainly is not applicable to NTFS or FAT volumes under Windows XP."

PerfectDisk may not be doing any harm in consolidating all free space into one segment, but it is highly unlikely that they are doing any good.  As Diskeeper explains:

Quote:
Why doesn't Diskeeper move all of the files into one place on the volume?

Our primary philosophy with Diskeeper is improving and maintaining the performance of your computer.  The disk drives are the primary bottleneck in your computer's performance.  Diskeeper restores the disks to top speed by eliminating fragmentation.

It is a common misconception that a defragmented disk should look very neat and tidy in the Volume Map tab, with solid blue bars all the way across the screen (representing fragmentation-free files) and the rest white space (representing consolidated space).

Clearly, the speed of the volume (meaning how fast you can access the data on it) is more important than the prettiness of the display or the consolidation of all the free space into one place.  Free space consolidation might be important if the next file that you plan to create needs to be one gigantic contiguous file, but it has no effect on performance. I n fact, the operating system may or may not write the next file into a contiguous location—even if there is a large enough space....

Even so, you might ask why we don't continue and rearrange the files further to get a neat display?  Because it takes computer power to do so.  We long ago decided that it would be wrong for Diskeeper to consume more of your computer's performance than it gives back.  So Diskeeper defragments until the disk is in top shape performance-wise and then stops.

Now this might not be important to you if you like to sit and watch the display as Diskeeper defragments your drive, but it is a very big deal to large corporate data centers and people who depend on their computers for their work.  They need all the performance they can get and can't hold up production while the defragmenter works to enhance the “look” of the disk but not improve its performance.
Source:  Diskeeper 2007 User Manual (page 54)

Note that I am not arguing that PerfectDisk is better or worse than Diskeeper; rather, that the belief in the benefit of a single consolidated free space segment is most likely unwarranted.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #35 - Nov 24th, 2006 at 7:29pm
 
Pleonasm, PerfectDisk says it does matter and Diskeeper says it doesn't and to be honest, I don't really care who is closer to the truth. They are good products but PerfectDisk is better for my purposes.
 
 
IP Logged
 

Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #36 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 3:47pm
 
I agree – both products have good reputations, although each may have some features lacking in the other.

To clarify, the position of Diskeeper is not that free space consolidation is unimportant, only that there is no performance benefit between having a single segment of free space versus having "a few" free space segments.  Both PerfectDisk and Diskeeper acknowledge that when there are "many" free space segments, performance will suffer.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #37 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:36pm
 
Pleonasm, do you see the situation I described with Diskeeper? A band of data towards the bottom of the window that jumps up or down a row or so every few days. It jumps independently of running Diskeeper and the number of fragmented rises appropriately day by day so it is not Diskeeper running a defragmentation without being told.

PS I was running Diskeeper weekly.
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #38 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 11:27am
 
Brian, no – I have not observed what you describe.  The two "odd" behaviors that I have seen, however, are:  (1) "Reserved System Space" will sometimes increase substantially, and then shrink back to "normal"; (2) after recently installing Adobe Acrobat Standard 8, there are a block of the application's files toward the end of the volume which don't seem to move (I have an inquiry into Diskeeper technical support to learn what is occurring for the latter).

I run Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier in the "Set-It-And-Forget-It" mode, allowing the product to monitor file usage (for I-FAAST optimization) and to defragment in the background.  Because fragmentation occurs so quickly and so readily on a PC, this provides a nearly continuous benefit of enhanced PC performance (versus running the application once-a-week, in which case you alternate between brief periods of optimized performance followed by a steady degrading until the next defragmentation occurs).

I have a number of PC maintenance tasks scheduled during the evening hours (e.g., anti-virus scans, Ghost backup, etc.), and during those hours I automatically disable Diskeeper so as to minimize any disk contention.

Does that help?
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #39 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 1:51pm
 
Pleonasm wrote on Nov 26th, 2006 at 11:27am:
Because fragmentation occurs so quickly and so readily on a PC, this provides a nearly continuous benefit of enhanced PC performance (versus running the application once-a-week, in which case you alternate between brief periods of optimized performance followed by a steady degrading until the next defragmentation occurs).

When I started using Diskeeper, I used it daily. Then later weekly and once I waited a month between runs. Subjectively, my computer ran the same. When I defragged after the one month abstinence period I noted no improvement. I accept that tests would have shown performance degradation but from a user perspective there was no advantage in daily runs. Can you tell the difference if you defrag more often?

 
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #40 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 3:46pm
 
The only comparison I am able to comment upon, Brian, is (1) running Diskeeper 9/10 Professional weekly versus (2) running Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier with I-FAAST continuously.  Subjectively, there is a quite noticeable and positive difference in the latter.  (It really is a pleasantly apparent change.)  After having used Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier in the continuous "Set-It-And-Forget-It-Mode," I wouldn't even consider returning to the weekly defragmentation routine.  Program launches and file loads now "pop," adding a nice level of "zip" to the overall experience.

Additionally, I can't observe any negative impact of having Diskeeper run in the background.  Diskeeper's InvisiTasking technology (see page 4 in PDF link) is quite invisible to the user.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 

Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #41 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 3:58pm
 
Pleonasm,

Quote:
After having used Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier in the continuous "Set-It-And-Forget-It-Mode," I wouldn't even consider returning to the weekly defragmentation routine.


Do you mean that immediately after running a defrag with Diskeeper 9/10 Professional, the subjective result is inferior to running Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier with I-FAAST continuously? If that's the case I'll try it out.
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #42 - Nov 26th, 2006 at 5:22pm
 
RE:  "Do you mean that immediately after running a defrag with Diskeeper 9/10 Professional, the subjective result is inferior to running Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier with I-FAAST continuously?"

Yes, that is my own personal experience, Brian.  There are three variables – any one of which (or combination of which) – may be responsible for the observed change in my own case:  (1) version 2007 of Diskeeper versus version 10; (2) running Diskeeper in the continuous "Set-It-And-Forget-It" mode versus running weekly; and (3) using I-FAAST versus not.  I can't say which of these factors has had the greatest influence.

If you want to test Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier, I recommend that you use the "free trial" option.  Also, note that I-FAAST only "observes" your PC usage for about the first week before it actually starts to deliver a benefit.

Please let me know how this works for you, and what you learn.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #43 - Nov 27th, 2006 at 1:49pm
 
By the way, Brian, I don’t want to give you the impression that using Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier results in a “night-and-day” increment in performance.  But, subjectively, it is a quite noticeable improvement.  I especially see this in loading the applications that I use most frequently (e.g., Word 2003, Excel 2003) and in accessing the files that I use most often.

The benefit is also apparent in using Windows Explorer, with long lists of folders/files appearing quickly as you navigate around the drive.  This is probably a result of the new “directory consolidation” capability of the 2007 version.

For reasons that I do not understand, I-FAAST will not necessarily deliver a performance gain on all PC configurations (see Reply #12).  If I-FAAST detects that its algorithms will not benefit the user, it will automatically disable itself.  Other than testing Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier, I don’t know of a way to determine in advance whether I-FAAST will yield a benefit or not.

Lookin’ forward to hearing the results of your experiences with Diskeeper 2007 Pro Premier!
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Intelligent File Access Acceleration Sequencin
Reply #44 - Nov 27th, 2006 at 3:41pm
 
Pleonasm, I installed the trial Diskeeper 2007 on my son's computer. He has been using Diskeeper 9. I'll report back in a week or two.

You might like to assess PerfectDisk 8 to see how it differs from Diskeeper.

http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/

Some users of PerfectDisk may have encountered a problem with boot time defragmentation. I had this problem and it was due to a Daemon Tools driver conflict.

Quote:
Daemon Tools/Alcohol 120.
The Daemon Tools driver Sptd.sys prevents PerfectDisk from gaining the exclusive access to the drive that it needs to perform the boot time defrag.
9/26/06 - DuplexSecure, the developers of the sptd driver, have released an updated driver (v1.29) that no longer prevents PerfectDisk's boot time defrag from running. Please go to http://www.duplexsecure.com/downloads to download the updated driver.
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print