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Hard Disk Cooling Fan (Read 48146 times)
Pleonasm
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #30 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:20pm
 
Rama, I agree that the addition of a disk fan is “cheap insurance” – whether or not it is actually needed, or whether it delivers any benefit in terms of device longevity when the drive is already operating within the manufacturer’s temperature parameters.  Stated differently, there would appear to be little downside risk from using a disk fan (if properly installed and positioned).

Of course, a PC user should assess the thermal state not only of the hard disk drive, but also of the other key components and adjust the cooling strategy as may be required (e.g., enhancing air flow through the case by increasing the rear fan exhaust RPM, etc.).
 

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Brian
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #31 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 4:42pm
 
Pleonasm wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:20pm:
Stated differently, there would appear to be little downside risk from using a disk fan (if properly installed and positioned).

Pleonasm,

That would be an interesting study. Whether cooling fans actually increase the life of a HD or paradoxically decrease the life of a HD. The Google study indicates low temperatures may be a problem.

Quote:
In fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower
temperatures are associated with higher failure rates.
 
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #32 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 6:11pm
 
Brian wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 4:42pm:
Pleonasm wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:20pm:
Stated differently, there would appear to be little downside risk from using a disk fan (if properly installed and positioned).

Pleonasm,

That would be an interesting study. Whether cooling fans actually increase the life of a HD or paradoxically decrease the life of a HD. The Google study indicates low temperatures may be a problem.

Quote:
In fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower
temperatures are associated with higher failure rates.


We need to look at actual numbers regarding temperature. In some of the southern states, what is lower is perhaps what is higher in the NW.  Again it is a good project for anyone intersted in making a study.

Another way to look at is for a manufacturer like Seagate who offer 5 yr warranty on consumer grade drives  to analyze the return rates due to HD failure and time elapsed between the purchase and return along with the region of the country where the returns take place. I suspect HD manufacturers may treat such a study as proprietory confidential info and may not publish them, especially if the drive failures are frequent in 1 - 3 yr range.

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Pleonasm
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #33 - May 1st, 2007 at 12:17pm
 
Brian, you are right:  based on the Google research, there is an increase in the AFR (annualized failure rate) of hard disk drives from about 2% at 30C to 9% at 17C (see Figure 4 in the Google research paper).  Note, however, that the “low temperature effect” is generally present only during the first three months of the hard disk drive lifecycle, after which it is ameliorated quite a bit (see Figure 5).  The temperature range of 30C to 40C appears to have the lowest associated failure rate across the entire lifecycle (although that AFR is not significantly different from the 40C+ range, as judged by the standard error bars in Figure 5, in general).

Rama, “actual temperatures” are in fact reported in the Google research paper (see especially Figures 4 and 5).  Your idea about correlating the AFR with geography is interesting, but it wouldn’t account for whether or not the unit is in an air conditioned environment, for example, where the ambient temperature is controlled.

As a practical matter, I do not see any reason for a person to use a hard disk drive fan in the absence of experiencing temperatures which are outside of the operating limits established by the manufacturer (e.g., 0C to 60C by Seagate, in general).  In the spirit of “don’t fix it if it is not broken,” the first step – in my opinion – would be for a PC user to monitor the hard disk drive temperature, and only then make a decision to install a cooling fan if circumstances justify it.
 

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #34 - May 21st, 2007 at 5:54pm
 
Hey all, I understand the concept heat = excessive wear, of course. What I'm curious about is what exactly is a safe operating temperature to run a hard drive at? I just bought a 400GB Western Digital Caviar SE16 drive last week and I checked the stats just now - says the operating temperature is 0 - 60 C. Of course, I imagine it's better for it to run in 30's?

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/productspecs.asp?driveid=300

Couldn't find a detailed spec list about thermal wear like I have been able to with Intel and AMD processors before. Thanks a lot!
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #35 - May 22nd, 2007 at 9:48am
 
Baseem, if Western Digital says that the acceptable operating temperature for the hard disk drive is between 0C and 60C, then anything in that range is – by definition – acceptable.  I doubt that anyone on this forum has engineering credentials that exceed those of the professionals at the manufacturer, so why not simply accept the assertion as it is stated?
 

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #36 - May 22nd, 2007 at 11:30am
 
Pleonasm, I agree that one should always accept the manufacturer's specs. However, I was confused if this was the operating environment, or the operating temperature of the drive itself. Granted, 60 degrees Celsius would be a pretty extreme temperature to expect a computer to run in, but it's not clear what is meant in the specs list.

The speedfan program that was suggested to me in the other thread I started about DBAN & hard drive life worked great. I was able to read my 120GB HDD's temps. It displayed 24C when I first powered that machine on this morning, but it never got above 35C at any point in time (monitored it in the system tray) which leads me to wonder if I even need a hard drive cooler at all. Any thoughts?
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #37 - May 22nd, 2007 at 12:09pm
 
Baseem, Seagate references the hard disk case temperature (provided by an internal disk sensor) when discussing “operating temperature” (usually 0C to 60C).  Seagate also discusses ambient temperature (usually 5C to 55C), which refers to the temperature of the room in which the PC is located.  I suspect that the same terminology applies to Western Digital, too.

The downside risk of using a hard disk cooling fan would appear to be minimal.  However, based on your prior post, it doesn’t seem that you need to take any action.
 

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan - Update
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 11:05pm
 
DrWho2006 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2007 at 8:22pm:
I worked through many different types of coolers and ways of mounting drives....


I got a Seagate ST328040A Barracuda 7200 rpm 28.5gb hard drive from a friend and when I formatted the drive, after 30 minutes it was very hot even to touch. This was in spite of it laying open on my desk on its back. Wondered if there was something wrong with the drive. A google search revealed the reviewers found the same thing. They had to wait for atleast one minute of cool of before handling the drive.

So I installed a cooling fan with a 1/4" stand off. Lo and behold, the drive is running cool; no more than a degree or more from room temperature.

In the computer case where I had to install, the harddrive had to go into a l_l shaped cage with two small holes in the bottom of the cage. So I drilled holes in the bottom since i did not have tools to cut off a large square opening which would have provided better air discharge. It is running cool and I do not have to worry about overheating inside the computer case.

No I am convinced of the effectiveness of the cooling fan and I do have some extra ones handy in case I need them.

Rama
 
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #39 - Aug 6th, 2007 at 9:36am
 
Rama, according to the Seagate website, the operating temperature of the ST328040A hard disk drive is 0C to 55C.  If, for example, your drive was at 50C (122F) it would be both “hot to touch” and operating within its design specifications.  In other words, your observation that the drive was “hot” doesn’t necessarily imply that it was running outside of its design tolerances - and, your success in cooling the drive doesn’t imply that that it will last longer or run more reliably.

Now, if the temperature of the drive was in fact above 55C, then clearly corrective action would be required.  Did you actually measure the temperature of the drive (e.g., using SpeedFan)?
 

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #40 - Aug 6th, 2007 at 10:03am
 
Pleonasm wrote on Aug 6th, 2007 at 9:36am:
Rama, according to the Seagate website, the operating temperature of the ST328040A hard disk drive is 0C to 55C.  If, for example, your drive was at 50C (122F) it would be both “hot to touch” and operating within its design specifications.  In other words, your observation that the drive was “hot” doesn’t necessarily imply that it was running outside of its design tolerances - and, your success in cooling the drive doesn’t imply that that it will last longer or run more reliably.

Now, if the temperature of the drive was in fact above 55C, then clearly corrective action would be required.  Did you actually measure the temperature of the drive (e.g., using SpeedFan)?


No, I did not measure the temp using speedfan.

Personally I would rather run the computer at room temp. Since it was a free HD, it really did not matter if it fails in say 10 days. I have a backup!!! All I need is to put in new HD and I am back in business. What a comfort you have with Ghost!

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #41 - Sep 14th, 2007 at 10:55am
 
When you touch your running HD and have to immediately pull your blistered finger away with a resounding "Ouch!" (or much worse verbiage) it's obviously too hot.
Nothing in a computer should ever run that hot.

Any electronics designer who has to use "Hobby Grade" components, like our home computers use, will tell you quite frankly that "
Heat Kills
".

Why else would we have CPU coolers, Video chip coolers, PSU coolers, case fans, on and on.
HD coolers are just one more step in the effort to keep our PC's alive just a little bit longer.

Electronics are damaged when they heat up from room temps to
HOT
time after time.
The expanding and contracting literally
RIPS
them apart.

Google? They are not electro/mechanical engineers and I sure wouldn't put much stock in anything they say. Tongue

Hard drive coolers are not Refrigeration devices.  They don't CHILL a drive, but just blow away excess heat. (it can't go below room temperature)
Keeping a drive at room temps has NO downside.  They will last longer and your valuable data will be better protected.

If room temperature was damaging to a drive, they would come with built in HEATERS.  Tongue

The last Deathstar drive that squalled, balled and stopped on me, (sans cooler) was so hot when I reached in to remove it, that it literally
BURNED
my fingers.
I had to wrap a rag around it to take it out. ( I couldn't find my Oven Mits)

Since that day, I've had two-fan coolers mounted under every drive I've owned.
That same technique is now being used (with the 1/4" standoffs) by hundreds of PC users world wide. 
One guy wrote me to tell me that his 10,000 rpm Raptor drive that used to run scalding hot, now runs cool with the installation of the little cooler. 

Here's one guy that took my cooling tips to the extreme!

...

The inlet and exhaust fans are obvious. What's not so obvious is that the RED fan is actually mounted in a clear plastic Left-Side case panel.  And the two blue fans in the base are sitting on top of the HD, taped to the base plate with duct tape.  Wink Grin Grin Grin

When he sent me this picture, my only comment was, "COOL!"

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?
Shadow  Cool
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling
Reply #42 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 5:01pm
 
Today I had a brief talk with an Hard Drive designer who has been in the industry for several decades. During the discussion about the Google's recent research, it was pointed out that Google tested consumer grade drives used on servers. Secondly, server grade drives are better built to deal with heavy input and output and also non stop operation.

On the other hand, as anyone who has dealt with electronics know that heat kills. Also the drive heads are floating on the drive platter almost touching them. Hence any expansion due to heat is likely to increase problems.

So using the above feedback, I am going to continue to use hard drive fans (they are cheap)  and keep the drives cool. This also reduces the overall temperature inside the computer case, especially the ones which are closed. The problem manufacturers face with additional cooling fan is the consumer complaints about the additional noise; typically some have their computers next to their beds and complain about the noise bothering them when trying to go sleep. Also anyone who is concerned with drive failure in business environments, should consider buying server grade hard drives as they are better built and of course they cost more.

Rama

 
 
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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #43 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 6:27pm
 
Rama, it is true that the Google research is based upon consumer-grade hard disk drives used in a server environment.  But, doesn't that make their findings even more solid?

If the temperature of a consumer-grade hard disk drive (while operating within the manufacturer's design tolerances) isn't highly correlated with failure when used in a server environment, then one would expect the finding to be all the more descriptive of a less demanding home environment, no?

* * * * * * * * * *

TheShadow, if the temperature of your own hard disk drive exceeded the manufacturer's design tolerances, then certainly it was proper for you to take corrective action to cool the hardware.  It doesn't logically follow, however, that installing a cooling fan when a hard disk drive is operating within its tolerances has any benefit.

By the way, the primary author of the Google research is Eduardo Pinheiro, who holds both a PhD in Computer Science from Rutgers University as well as a BS in Computer Engineering.  The second author of the paper, Wolf-Dietrich Weber, holds a PhD in Electrical Engineering from Stanford University.  The third author, Luiz André Barroso, has earned a PhD degree in Computer Engineering from the University of Southern California and holds both B.S. and M.S. degrees in Electrical Engineering.  Therefore, you may wish to reconsider your assertion that Google personnel "are not electro/mechanical engineers and I sure wouldn't put much stock in anything they say."
 

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Re: Hard Disk Cooling Fan
Reply #44 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 8:24pm
 
All the points are well taken. Having faced with hard drive failures, after 1 or 2 years of use, I am more inclined to invest a couple of dollars on a fan even if there is a 10% probability it is going to help.  I would leave it to the readers to decide what they want to do.

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