Radified Community Forums - New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista

NightOwl

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #15 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 12:35am

vpleht

Quote:

I chose the option to wipe the MBR, it gave a short warning that all partitions would be lost, I continued. After that, the tool showed that the HDD had nothing in the first 63 sectors.
Then I went to the Super FDISK tool again (btw there also was an option the clean the MBR) and partitioned the drive as one big Primary Partition, and left it unformatted.
Nothing would show up in Vista though

Well, remember I was wondering if *super FDISK* was not creating a MBR that Vista could work with.

Try this--wipe the first 63 sectors again. Then simply boot to Vista. Does the HDD show up in Vista's Disk Management as being available to be partitioned and formatted for use as a *New Device* or *New HDD*?

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Brian

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	Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista Reply #16 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 2:08am NightOwl wrote on Jul 28^th, 2007 at 12:35am: Try this--wipe the first 63 sectors again. vpleht, If you do this with MBRWork again, you need choices 3 and 4. I think you only used choice 4 last time. http://members.shaw.ca/LeesPlace/mbrwork.htm
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vpleht

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #17 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 3:40am

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll try using MBRWork again, this time with choices 3 and 4, and booting to Vista straight after to see if it shows up as unpartitioned space. Are you sure that normally Vista (or WXP for that matter) does show unpartitioned hard drives in the Disk Management?

But IF Super FDISK has a problem creating an MBR that Vista won't recognize, then how come I managed to INSTALL Vista on a partition made with Super FDISK?

And if that is the case, should I try MBRWork's "Option 5: Install standard MBR code" ?

And one more question: Does it matter whether the IDE drive is partitioned as a Primary partition or a single Logical DOS drive? Does EVERY drive installed have to have at least one primary partition?

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Brian

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #18 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 4:09am

vpleht wrote on Jul 28^th, 2007 at 3:40am:

And if that is the case, should I try MBRWork's "Option 5: Install standard MBR code" ?

No. You want the first track to be zeroed for this test.

I haven't used Vista but with WinXP you would be asked to "initialize" the new HD on the first boot. This is Windows asking to write a MBR to the HD.

Quote:

And one more question: Does it matter whether the IDE drive is partitioned as a Primary partition or a single Logical DOS drive? Does EVERY drive installed have to have at least one primary partition?

Your second HD doesn't need to have a regular primary partition. It can be partitioned as a primary extended partition which can contain several logical volumes.

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NightOwl

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #19 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 8:57am

Brain

Quote:

If you do this with MBRWork again, you need choices 3 and 4.

Choice #3: *3> Reset EMBR area to zero*.

I looked at the TeraByte's website, What is an EMBR?, and unfortunately, their explanation of the *EMBR* is less than definitive, quite vague actually--I can not tell if that is actually in reference to the absolute sectors 1-62, or what...., the MBR is absolute sector 0 which includes the Master Partition Table information.

Do you know a reference or have you tested to see if the EMBR wiping is the first 1-62 sectors?

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Brian

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #20 - Jul 28^th, 2007 at 10:48am

NightOwl,

I'll see if I can find a decent explanation of EMBR. I agree the TeraByte one is lacking in clarity.

I have tested MBRWork and "Reset EMBR area to zero" does zero sectors 1 to 62.

The BING userguide mentions EMBR 38 times and the nearest I can get to a sensible definition is "You can back up or restore the EMBR information (the entire first track) from any selected hard disk."

With MBRWork, "Reset EMBR area to zero" does leave sector 0 intact and the HD still boots.

I now use BING as a boot manager and I have "solid" BING code in my first 9 sectors and a few bytes of code in several other sectors in Track 0. So my "MBR" has been extended from just occupying sector 0 to occupying numerous sectors.

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vpleht

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #21 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 3:45am

I got the IDE disk to show up in Vista!

First I tested MBRWork again, I tried to partition the disk with different configurations and tools, but nothing seemed to work.
But then I got an idea: first I would use DBan's Boot & Nuke (found on the UBCD) to wipe the disk clean of any past processing so that my PC would think it's brand new, and then I would partition the disk with Vista installation DVD to make sure Vista would recognize it. I did all that, but unfortunately I couldn't choose Vista installation DVD to make it anything other than a Primary partition. And yes, the disk still DID NOT show up in Vista.

The next thing was just a random idea, it wouldn't hurt to try, I thought. I changed the IDE disk's jumpers to "cable select" and assigned it to the gray slave cable. Everything worked fine!

So in the end, there was absolutely nothing wrong with any of the software used to partition the HDD or anything, just a matter of master or slave. I guess Vista doesn't like "primary master" IDE drives when booting off from a SATA drive.

But then there is the problem with Linux.. continued in another post.

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vpleht

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #22 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 4:06am

I can't get Ubuntu to install from the CD. Disconnecting the IDE disk didn't change anything.
I'll describe the problem.

After I press the 'Start or Install Ubuntu' button, the CD begins to load something, and a screen with Ubuntu-text and a progress bar going back and forth stays on for about 30 seconds.

Then the screen goes black, a blinking _ appears in the upper left corner, and then this message appears in its place (without the >>>):

>>> [ 160.838328] hdc: drive not ready for command

I think the series of numbers above is different every time, not sure though
Nothing would happen, and I can either reset the system, and the computer reboots, or press the shut down button, in which case more text appears (on at least one occasion):

>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1665
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1666
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1667
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1668
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1669
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1670
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1671
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1672
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1673
>>> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 1674
>>> SQUASHFS error: sb_bread failed reading block 0x9dbb7
>>> SQUASHFS error: unable to read uid/gid table

On each of the above lines a similar series of numbers precedes as in the first line, but with different numbers, but I didn't write them down. Cont.:

>>> BusyBox v.1.1.3 (Debian 1:1.1.3-3ubuntu3) Built-in shell (ash)
>>> Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands
>>> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job turned off
>>> (initramfs) _

Then I write help and a list of commands appears, but I don't know what to do so I just reset the computer.

All that I wrote down last night. I just woke up a while ago and booted to the Ubuntu CD and chose the option "Test CD for defects". The same problem, I just pressed reset. BUT this is interesting: at some point, not sure if it was after or before pressing reset, a weird cracking sound came from somewhere in the computer case. Judging from the fact that my DVD drive isn't showing up in Vista and it's not responding to the eject button either, the sound came from there. But I think it'll work if I shut the PC down and turn it on again.

Do you suppose it's a problem with the DVD drive, or is there something wrong with the CD..?

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NightOwl

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #23 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 10:05am

vpleht

Thanks for the report back!

Quote:

The next thing was just a random idea, it wouldn't hurt to try, I thought. I changed the IDE disk's jumpers to "cable select" and assigned it to the gray slave cable. Everything worked fine!

So in the end, there was absolutely nothing wrong with any of the software used to partition the HDD or anything, just a matter of master or slave. I guess Vista doesn't like "primary master" IDE drives when booting off from a SATA drive.

Interesting--I've seen reports where folks have had to change from *jumpered* master/slave HDD's to *cable select* to get the system to *play nice* with the HDD's, as well as your experience--changing from *cable select* to a *jumpered* master/slave setup--I wonder where the problem is--BIOS or Windows not liking the combination of HDD controllers?!

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El_Pescador

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #24 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 11:29am

vpleht wrote on Jul 29^th, 2007 at 3:45am:

"... I guess Vista doesn't like "primary master" IDE drives when booting off from a SATA drive..."

On the other hand, my Dell Dimension 8300 running WIN XP Pro did not like "primary slave or cable select" IDE drives when booting off from a SATA drive (see link below).

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1115415636/3#3

EP

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vpleht

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #25 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 11:38am

NightOwl wrote on Jul 29^th, 2007 at 10:05am:

vpleht

Thanks for the report back!

Quote:

The next thing was just a random idea, it wouldn't hurt to try, I thought. I changed the IDE disk's jumpers to "cable select" and assigned it to the gray slave cable. Everything worked fine!

So in the end, there was absolutely nothing wrong with any of the software used to partition the HDD or anything, just a matter of master or slave. I guess Vista doesn't like "primary master" IDE drives when booting off from a SATA drive.

Interesting--I've seen reports where folks have had to change from *jumpered* master/slave HDD's to *cable select* to get the system to *play nice* with the HDD's, as well as your experience--changing from *cable select* to a *jumpered* master/slave setup--I wonder where the problem is--BIOS or Windows not liking the combination of HDD controllers?!

My experience _was_ that changing from *jumpered* TO *cable select* makes it work, not the other way around. Anyhow, maybe I was wrong with the statement of mine that you quoted - it could be that Vista just doesn't like hard disks that are jumpered to be master. Therefore it could be that Vista would allow for Primary Master IDE drives that are set to master by cable select.

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NightOwl

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #26 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 2:50pm

vpleht

Quote:

My experience _was_ that changing from *jumpered* TO *cable select* makes it work, not the other way around.

Sorry, got it backwards! Actually, I've seen more reports that using *cable select* solves problems than the other way around--apparently modern HDD controllers prefer that setting!

Quote:

it could be that Vista just doesn't like hard disks that are jumpered to be master. Therefore it could be that Vista would allow for Primary Master IDE drives that are set to master by cable select.

You're in a great position to easily test that theory!

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vpleht

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	Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista Reply #27 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 3:08pm I'll test that at the next bootup, then we know Any way you could help me with the linux problem though?
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NightOwl

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #28 - Jul 29^th, 2007 at 5:26pm

vpleht

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Any way you could help me with the linux problem though?

Mr. Magoo is the Linux guy--if he doesn't check this thread and respond by tomorrow--you might start a new thread specific to your problem--make sure *Linux* is in the title--he usually responds to that

!

This thread has been off the Linux topic for some time.

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vpleht

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Re: New HDD, planning to install both Linux & Windows Vista
Reply #29 - Jul 30^th, 2007 at 5:09am

I tested the drive as primary master on cable select, Vista just ignored it, seems. Which is weird though, because when I had just installed Vista on the 500gb disk, I reconnected the 120gb disk to move files, and Vista had no problem recognizing it. It was primary master by jumpers then. But as soon as I had repartitioned and -formatted it, Vista didn't like it anymore.
But it works on primary slave on cable select.

NightOwl wrote on Jul 29^th, 2007 at 5:26pm:

vpleht

Quote:

Any way you could help me with the linux problem though?

Mr. Magoo is the Linux guy--if he doesn't check this thread and respond by tomorrow--you might start a new thread specific to your problem--make sure *Linux* is in the title--he usually responds to that

!

This thread has been off the Linux topic for some time.

Ok, I think I'll make a new thread of it right away.

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