Welcome, Guest. Please Login
 
  HomeHelpSearchLogin FAQ Radified Ghost.Classic Ghost.New Bootable CD Blog  
 
Poll Poll
Question: What Can I do to fix this problem



« Created by: bubbha286 on: Feb 24th, 2008 at 9:29pm »

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Having problems using Ghost 12 (Read 12830 times)
davido
N00b
Offline


I Love Radified!

Posts: 6


Back to top
Having problems using Ghost 12
Feb 15th, 2008 at 4:08pm
 
I have a new laptop (Sony VAIO) with Vista home premium and 225GB Harddrive (178 GB of Free space left) with 47 gb used space according to MY computer. I am using a NTSF external harddrive.

After I installed Norton Ghost 12, I selected the complete computer backup option. In reviewing the newly renamed External hard drive, norton created a 3KB Symantec Recovery Enviorment File and a 9,971,331KB file called Symantec Image File.

1.Why did Ghost create only partial or smaller versions of the complete backup of the computer??
2.Did Ghost backup the Windows vista operating system completely?? How do I know???

Thanks to all in advance. Great board I am highly reccomending this site to several users.
 
 
IP Logged
 

Brian
Demigod
******
Offline



Posts: 6345
NSW, Australia


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 4:19pm
 
davido,

A ghost image (recovery point) is compressed and usually equals about 60% of the used space in a partition. I'm not a Vista user but your .v2i image seems too small. (Forget the 3 kb file)

Did you Verify the image? Can you do that now from the Image browser?

Also, right click the .v2i image and click Mount. Accept the choices. Navigate through the virtual drive and confirm if it is complete. Let us know what you find.
 
 
IP Logged
 
davido
N00b
Offline


I Love Radified!

Posts: 6


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #2 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 4:26pm
 
What actually does Mount DO?????????

How can you be certain Ghost 12 is actually backing up everything (every selection and every program) I know about verify but is their any way to be certain???????

I again backed up everything this timeinstead of compressing the file size I chose none to compare size and I still get a difference.

Actually I figured more moderators would be giving more tips and suggestions by now?????????
Alot of reader be few helpers    Embarrassed
 
 
IP Logged
 
Rad
Radministrator
*****
Offline


Sufferin' succotash

Posts: 4090
Newport Beach, California


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #3 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 1:52pm
 
Quote:
How can you be certain Ghost 12 is actually backing up everything

1
. First, you wanna see the "Succeeded" message at complation.

...

2
. Next, check the SIZE of the directory where your back-up files are stored. For example, I just backed up my C drive today, which contains ~ 30 gigs of total data (closer to 29).

The back-up directory I created for the Independent recovery point is ~22 gigs.

22 / 29 = 76 percent, which sounds reasonable. What is *not* reasonable? Less than 50% would lead me to investigate further.

Note that small files, such as O/S files compress well (since any file smaller than 4KB will consume 4KB of space on a NTFS drive. Files such as MP3's do *not* compress very much (since they are already "compressed" .. sorta .. actually "encoded").

3
. Lastly, as Brian mentions, a browse thru the back-up image ("Recovery point") .. to check for the existence of a sampling of the files which should be there. Personally,I wouldn't do this unless I saw problems with #1 & #2.

On a tangential note, I would recommend only backing up after a fresh reboot, after the disk activity light calms down and before opening any other apps. Don't do anything while backing up. This gives you the greatest chance of creating a successful back-up image .. uh, I mean, "Recovery point".

Quote:
...and 225GB Harddrive ...

You suk. Smiley Must be nice. I have 60 on my laptop.

You may also like this:

http://radified.com/Articles/laptop.htm
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #4 - Feb 17th, 2008 at 4:03pm
 
To expand upon point #3 in reply #3 by Rad, you may also choose to compare every file in select folders on the original drive (partition) that you imaged to the same folders in the mounted virtual volume, using a tool such as FolderMatch.  This should serve to increase your confidence in the process and in the product.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
bubbha286
Ex Member




Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #5 - Feb 24th, 2008 at 9:29pm
 
I am using an IBM T41 laptop running Windows XP home with Ghost 12.0. The 40Gb (copy drive) is internal and the 100Gb (destination drive) is usb external. I do a disk to disk drive copy, it informes me that the copy was successful. When I swap the drives the new (destination drive) will not boot.  What is the problem??????????
 
 
IP Logged
 

NightOwl
Radministrator
*****
Offline


"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."

Posts: 5826
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #6 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 9:30am
 
bubbha286

Regarding your *Poll*--you need another option!--*Send it to NightOwl*  Cheesy !  (I need a nice laptop to *play* with  Wink !)  And, that will keep the environment nice and clean--doesn't make a mess inside or clutter the streets outside!!!  (And, I bet I probably can figure out how to clone the HDD and get the clone to boot!!!)

This may or may not apply, but there have been a number of problems attempting to use a HDD in an external USB enclosure kit and doing a direct disk to disk clone.  Apparently the disk geometries are not the same on the laptop as in the enclosure.

You could try creating an image file of the whole disk--all partitions--to an external HDD.  Remove the original HDD and place the new HDD in the laptop.  And then pull the data back into the new HDD mounted inside the laptop from the image so the geometry is created by the laptop onto the new HDD!  Might solve the problem.

There may be other issues--but if you can, I'd try that first!  Let us know how it goes.
 

____________________________________________________________________________________________

No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are Wink !
 
IP Logged
 
John.
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 2072


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #7 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:14am
 
Brian wrote on Feb 15th, 2008 at 4:19pm:
A ghost image (recovery point) is compressed and usually equals about 60% of the used space in a partition. I'm not a Vista user but your .v2i image seems too small. (Forget the 3 kb file)
Did you Verify the image? Can you do that now from the Image browser?


The system restore feature of Vista works differently (much more robust) than XP.  In Xp when you restore to a previous xp restore point, XP basically restores the registry back to that point.  Vista has added volume shadow services so that in addition to the registry, actual system file changes are also tracked and can be rolled back with system restore.

From what I can tell, Ghost 12 does NOT backup these volume shadow storage files (they wouldn't be of use anyway in a Ghost 12 restore since you're using Ghost not Vista to restore).  In fact they are unmovable.  You might be able to see their positions depending upon what defrag program you use.

http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/06/26/how-to-change-and-limit-system-restore-...
Quote:
By default, Windows Vista allocates 15% of the disk drive’s size or 30% of available free space on the drive, whichever is smaller as the maximum Shadow Copy store space. However, on some system, the maximum limit is unbounded, where Vista can use up all available precious free space on your hard disk. So it’s good to check and limit the maximum disk storage space allocated to VSS.


Bottom line, to determine ACTUAL amount Ghost should be backing up:
1. Look at properties for c: drive, and look at Used Space (on mine 165gb partition, used 39gb).
2. From elevated command prompt, enter:  vssadmin list shadowstorage

Quote:
vssadmin list shadowstorage

vssadmin 1.1 - Volume Shadow Copy Service administrative command-line tool
(C) Copyright 2001-2005 Microsoft Corp.

Shadow Copy Storage association
  For volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{b3ae91e5-2f9f-11dc-a9a6-806e6f6e6963}\
  Shadow Copy Storage volume: (C:)\\?\Volume{b3ae91e5-2f9f-11dc-a9a6-806e6f6e69
63}\
  Used Shadow Copy Storage space: 18.593 GB
  Allocated Shadow Copy Storage space: 19.454 GB
  Maximum Shadow Copy Storage space: 20 GB


Note, on mine I have 19.454 gb allocated.

3. From the partition used space (39gb on my c: drive) subtract the shadowstorage space (19gb) and you get 20gb, which is the amount that Ghost 12 will image.  Ghost 12 also doesn't image the page file which might be about 1 gb.

I just looked at my most recent Ghost 12 image backup file (normal compression) and it is about 10gb.  So I achieved 50% compression, which is close to what Brian stated (60%) as normal.

There are many articles (search on Google) explaining how you can use the vssadmin command to restrict the amount of storage used if you want.  I have mine set to 20gb.  But if you haven't changed yours, then it can be using 15% of your hard drive, which on today's hard drive sizes, can be quite large.  But you don't really have to worry about it causing large Ghost 12 image backup file sizes.

Summary:  Verify if the Ghost backup image sizes now seem reasonable, after deducting space used for volume shadow storage.

 

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
IP Logged
 
John.
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 2072


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #8 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:26am
 
Here's a recent screen image of PerfectDisk and note the large black area of the partition map, which is the volume storage area used and reserved by Vista.  Compare that to the portion at the top which is what Ghost is actually imaging.
 

Vssadmin.jpg (29 KB | )
Vssadmin.jpg

Ghost4me  Ghost 9, 10, 12, 14, 15.  Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 11:34am
 
An easy way to remove old VSS files is to launch the Disk Cleanup utility, and select the “System Restore and Shadow Copies” option.  This will delete all but the most recent System Restore Point plus all shadow copies of files.

My understanding is that VSS is only enabled for the Business and Ultimate versions of Windows Vista.

Quote:
… volume shadow storage files … are unmovable

Here is how Diskeeper 2008 works in conjunction with VSS:

    Quote:
    It is important to be aware that when VSS is enabled on a volume with a cluster size smaller than 16 KB, VSS will see file movement done by the defragmentation process as changed data and take a point-in-time snapshot, even though only the location of the data has changed. Unnecessary snapshots will cause the VSS storage area to increases in size, possibly resulting in earlier VSS snapshots being purged. Diskeeper provides special defragmentation methods to allow you to defragment these VSS enabled volumes, yet minimize the possibility that older VSS snapshots will be purged. When the VSS defragmentation option is enabled, Diskeeper uses proprietary defragmentation engines to help reduce the chance of the defragmentation operation causing new VSS snapshots from being created, thus potentially preventing older snapshots from being purged. In order to do this, the VSS defragmentation engines use more conservative file movement algorithms, which can result in slightly less thorough defragmentation of the volume. Despite this, performance is still improved when this method is enabled. (Keep in mind that a large file in two pieces has virtually no performance loss, but it shows as much red color in the Volume Map tab as a file in several thousand pieces, which does suffer from performance loss.)
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #10 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 11:58am
 
Quote:
From what I can tell, Ghost 12 does NOT backup these volume shadow storage files

An interesting question, Ghost4me.  Since the file shadow copies occupy used disk clusters, and since Norton Ghost 12 backs up all used clusters, I would expect (but don’t know) that the file shadow copies are included in the image.  I have posted this question on the ShadowProtect Desktop forum, and will note here the answer I receive for that utility.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 

Pleonasm
Übermensch
*****
Offline



Posts: 1619


Back to top
Re: Having problems using Ghost 12
Reply #11 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 1:56pm
 
Quote:
From what I can tell, Ghost 12 does NOT backup these volume shadow storage files

StorageCraft has confirmed that ShadowProtect Desktop does include the “shadow copies” of files in the backup image (see this post).  As a result, I suspect that the same is true of Norton Ghost 12, too.  This hypothesis could be tested by restoring an image and looking to see if previous versions of files on the VSS volume are present.
 

ple • o • nasm n. “The use of more words than are required to express an idea”
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print