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› Multiple Backups on same HDD
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Multiple Backups on same HDD (Read 80818 times)
El_Pescador
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Bayou Country, USA
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #60 -
Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 3:27pm
NightOwl wrote
on Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 12:36am:
"... In your reply #41, do you know if your setup fails if you do not select *Assign drive letters* in the *External storage driver settings* options?..."
Regrettably, in a word, yes. Compare the images above, and of the two it certainly appears that the upper image should be the candidate to select in order to turn out a far more streamlined and elegant instruction set for the incorporation of
NightOwl's
Panasonic Universal USB Driver
routine into a bootable diskette. Regrettably, taking that path results in the creation of a
single
bootable diskette with only 16KB free which then cannot be subsequently modified downstream to accept the addition of the 33KB HIMEM.SYS file. While swapping out USBASPI.SYS and DI1000DD.SYS for ASPIEHCI.SYS is pretty much a wash - and MOUSE.INI is probably not an issue - the circumstances still indicate to me the inevitability of having to generate a twin-diskette set which results from checking the
Assign DOS drive letters
box.
I even tried to trick the Norton Ghost Boot Wizard by not only dropping DRVSPACE.BIN up front, but preloading the HIMEM.SYS and MOUSE.INI files before selecting the ADD MS-DOS radio button to make it seem that the now-modified WIN 98SE system diskette was the
'real deal'
. It didn't work.
EP
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Evereti
Gnarly
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Ghost Wrangler
Posts: 43
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #61 -
Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 4:10pm
Hi Guys
Don't think this is relevant to your discussion, but I found that if your system already has the MSDOS files, you only need a "formatted" set of floppies, not "formatted system disk",
The first thing the ghost processing does is copy the MSDOS files.
Anyway, mine worked....
Cheers
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El_Pescador
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #62 -
Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 9:30pm
Evereti wrote
on Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 4:10pm:
"... Don't think this is relevant to your discussion, but I found that if your system already has the MSDOS files, you only need a "formatted" set of floppies, not "formatted system disk",
The first thing the ghost processing does is copy the MSDOS files..."
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=11622...
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El_Pescador
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #63 -
Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 9:48pm
El_Pescador wrote
on Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 3:27pm:
"... Regrettably, taking that path results in the creation of a
single
bootable diskette with only 16KB free which then cannot be subsequently modified downstream to accept the addition of the 33KB HIMEM.SYS file..."
Well, what happens when the elegant
single
bootable diskette is used
sans
HIMEM.SYS. For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a
"lower aspect"
of some kind, but once past that Norton Ghost 2003 seemed to operate quite normally for all intents and purposes . However, since Norton Ghost 2003 is software I rely on strictly for use
in extremis
, I deem
any
error messages to be absolutely intolerable.
EP
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NightOwl
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tat..."
Posts: 5826
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #64 -
Nov 13
th
, 2006 at 1:01am
El_Pescador
Quote:
For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a "lower aspect" of some kind
Just after the system *POSTS*, and begins to read the floppy disk, hit F8 and select *step-by-step* confirmation so you can see which line in *config.sys* or *autoexec.bat* causes that error message.
I note you have a *DOS=high, umb* command in one of your setups--is that the one that causes the problem without loading *himem.sys*?
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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El_Pescador
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Bayou Country, USA
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #65 -
Nov 13
th
, 2006 at 11:09am
El_Pescador wrote
on Nov 12
th
, 2006 at 9:48pm:
"... what happens when the elegant
single
bootable diskette is used
sans
HIMEM.SYS. For me, there was an error message warning of a shift of memory usage to a
"lower aspect"
of some kind, but once past that Norton Ghost 2003 seemed to operate quite normally for all intents and purposes..."
NightOwl wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2006 at 1:01am:
"... I note you have a *DOS = high, umb* command in one of your setups--is that the one that causes the problem without loading *himem.sys*?..."
In my particular situation, removing
both
the *DEVICE = himem.sys* line and the *DOS=high, umb* line from the
config.sys
file of
NightOwl's
Panasonic Universal USB Driver
routine allowed creation of a singular
MS-DOS Disaster Recovery Diskette
that appears for all intents and purposes to be fully functional with no error messages whatsoever. Now, my curiosity is genuinely aroused as to what circumstances would these two lines pertaining to high memory in DOS be absolutely required.
EP
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NightOwl
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tat..."
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #66 -
Nov 14
th
, 2006 at 10:21am
El_Pescador
Quote:
Now, my curiosity is genuinely aroused as to what circumstances would these two lines pertaining to high memory in DOS be absolutely required.
Probably, for most users, those two commands are not required.
I remember one poster who was having a problem with Ghost erring out in the middle of a Ghost image creation procedure--I think it was a laptop system--and adding the *device=himem.sys* solved that problem--I don't believe the *dos=high,umb* had any effect on his Ghost error problem.
I'm not sure where, but I found a reference that stated that
some systems
(always so vague as to what that means!) do not manage memory in DOS correctly (again, always so vague--what effect does that have on one's system or programs under what circumstances?) without the addition of *himem.sys*--but my personal systems do not require it to run Ghost successfully.
In my original posting about the Panasonic USB DOS drivers,
A Better USB 2.0 DOS Driver for Ghost + More!
, I included those two commands and added the *himem.sys* file to the boot files because the original source that I was using,
Yes, there are USB drivers for DOS...
, used those lines. Looking back however, for some reason I did not use the *devicehigh* commands in [config.sys] as mentioned in that original source, nor the *LH* (short for *loadhigh*) in the [autoexec.bat]--can't remember why I decided not to do that being as I included the *device=himem.sys* line!
(As I worked on this post--I finally remembered why I left out *devicehigh* and *LH (loadhigh)*--see last section of this post.)
**********************************
Now, for the more technically inclined--the *details*
:
The reason for using *himem.sys* is to create additional memory space for DOS to use in what's called *High Memory Area* (HMA)--the first 640 KB of RAM is called *conventional memory* that DOS uses to run programs--the RAM area from 640 to 1024 KB is called the *Upper Memory Blocks* (UMB) area, and then just above that 1024 boundary is an area that's a little less than 64 KB called the *High Memory Area (HMA)--DOS can not access HMA without *himem.sys*.
The need for HMA occurs if you are running so many DOS drivers and programs that you run out of RAM in that first 640 KB of conventional memory. If HMA is available, then DOS can load a portion of the DOS OS into HMA rather than using conventional memory, and that frees up more conventional memory for more programs and device drivers.
Ghost is a small DOS program and most users will rarely load enough other DOS programs or drivers to use up too much of the 640 conventional memory to create a memory crunch problem.
If you want to also use the UMB memory area, then in addition to loading *himem.sys*, you must also load an *Upper Memory Block* memory provider (manager)--MS-DOS's is *emm386.exe*.
One of my favorite references for DOS is
Vernon Frazee's
MS-DOS v6.22 Help: Command Reference
.
Looking at the
< DOS >
command reference:
Quote:
DOS--Notes
Must install HIMEM.SYS for DOS=UMB or DOS=HIGH
You must install the HIMEM.SYS device driver or another extended memory
manager before you specify either DOS=UMB or DOS=HIGH.
Using the UMB parameter
You must specify the DOS=UMB command in order to load programs and device
drivers into the upper memory area. Using the upper memory area frees more
space in conventional memory for programs. In addition to using this
command,
you must install an upper-memory-block (UMB) provider. If your
computer has an 80386 or 80486 processor, you can use <EMM386.EXE> for your
UMB provider.
If you specify DOS=UMB
and no UMB provider is installed
,
MS-DOS will not
display an error message.
Using the HIGH parameter
If you specify the HIGH parameter, MS-DOS attempts to load part of itself
into the HMA. Loading part of MS-DOS into the HMA frees conventional memory
for programs.
If you specify DOS=HIGH and MS-DOS is unable to use the HMA,
the following message will appear:
HMA not available
Loading DOS low
So, basically, if you use *dos=high,umb*, you must load *himem.sys* in order to have DOS use the *high* parameter successfully, and you will get an error message if you have not loaded *himem.sys*. In order for DOS to use UMB's, then in additiion to the *himem.sys* driver, you also need to load *emm386.exe*--if you have not provided *emm386.exe* along with *himem.sys*, DOS will not show an error message, but UMB's will not be used!
***************************************
I just looked at the
< devicehigh >
, and
< loadhigh >
--I remember now why I didn't use the *devicehigh* and *LH (loadhigh)* commands in my posting for the Panasonic USB DOS drivers:
*devicehigh* (for use in [config.sys], and *LH (loadhigh)* (for use in [autoexec.bat]) are commands that load programs into the UMB area--and unless you have loaded the UMB memory manager *emm386.exe*--these commands are non-functional and your programs are loaded into *conventional* memory--*devicehigh* and *LH* have no effect unless *emm386.exe* has been loaded!
Quote:
Installing HIMEM.SYS
and a UMB provider
To load a device driver into the upper memory area, your computer must have
extended memory.
You must use the DEVICE command once to install the
HIMEM.SYS device driver
and then again to install an upper-memory-block
(UMB) provider.
These commands must appear before the DEVICEHIGH command in
your CONFIG.SYS file.
To have been technically correct, and consistent--I should have changed *dos=high,umb* to simply *dos=high*, being as *emm386.exe* was not being loaded and the *umb* in *dos=high,umb* was not going to perform any function!
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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El_Pescador
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Bayou Country, USA
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #67 -
Nov 15
th
, 2006 at 8:13pm
NightOwl wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2006 at 10:21am:
"... unless you have loaded the UMB memory manager *emm386.exe*--these commands are non-functional and your programs are loaded into *conventional* memory--*devicehigh* and *LH* have no effect unless *emm386.exe* has been loaded!..."
If you were inclined to
"pull-out-all-the-stops"
, then how, where and with what switches/options would you incorporate the *emm386.exe/himem.sys/DOS=high,umb* combo into
NightOwl's
Panasonic Universal USB Driver
routine?
EP
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NightOwl
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tat..."
Posts: 5826
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #68 -
Nov 15
th
, 2006 at 8:57pm
El_Pescador
Patience--I plan on working on this--I want to try to make a couple DOS screen shots to show the memory usage difference with and without using those UMB and HMA!
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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Evereti
Gnarly
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Ghost Wrangler
Posts: 43
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #69 -
Nov 18
th
, 2006 at 9:24pm
Hi EP and Nightowl
An long update on my efforts, I now have an Iomega Portable 80gb USB 2.0 HDD...its a beaut...fits in shirt pocket, needs no power:
-----------------------------------------------------
Compaq Laptop (Win 2000) with only one USB 1.x port.
This works 100% with the Panasonic driver floppies, but with the /e taken out of the USBASPI.SYS line.
Also, it works 100% just using the NG2003 windows interface and picking USB 1.1 drivers. A standard Ghost boot disk (with USB 1.1) works 100% for restore.
Its not too quick but as the whole system is only 3.5gb its all done in 45mins.....no worries.
------------------------------------------------------
Acer (winXP) with native USB 2.0.
Panasonic drivers work 100% (with /e inc) and at full speed....
Excellent
-------------------------------------------------------
Compaq Evo (winxp) with native USB 1.x and Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card.......THIS IS MY PROBLEM CHILD.
Panasonic drivers (without /e) work fine if HDD plugged into USB 1.x....very slow of course 12.5gb system takes over 2 hours.
If I put back the /e and plug it into Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card and boot step by step, everything looks 100% with no error messages, Ghost fires up, I pick the source, then when I pick the destination Ghost shows me the Iomega USB but when I click it, the light goes out on the drive....its like Ghost switched it off, demounted it or something.
My USBASPI.SYS has /v /w /e /norst
/e is for USB 2...what do the others do?
I also tried running from the standard windows interface using usb 2.0 and it said:
quote
Iomega ASPI - USB EHCI 1.0
etc etc
ID4 = HTS421280H9AT00
Installed successfully
Bad or missing Command Interpreter (for example, C:\ Command.com)
C:\ _
unquote
I even tried slipping in the AliEhci.sys from the driver disk for the PCI card but it fell over saying it could not run this program in DOS....probably not a DOS driver.
-------------------------------------------------
Nearly very happy....if only I could solve PCI card problem.
Cheers
Evereti ???
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El_Pescador
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #70 -
Nov 18
th
, 2006 at 9:56pm
Evereti wrote
on Nov 18
th
, 2006 at 9:24pm:
"... Compaq Evo (winxp) with native USB 1.x and Ali PCI - USB 2.0 card... THIS IS MY PROBLEM CHILD... if only I could solve PCI card problem..."
The solution is surprisingly simple but somewhat bitter - pitch the
ALi-compliant
PCI-to-USB2 card and select one that is
NEC-compliant
... a
replacement
PCI-to-USB2 host controller card will address your issue, but I would strongly advise against procuring
any
card that is not NEC-compliant (which means avoiding
ALi-compliant, SiS-compliant, or VIA-compliant plus anything that smacks of Intel or nVidia
).
CLICK
HERE
for an inexpensive card
proven
to be Ghost 2003-friendly.
EP
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NightOwl
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"I tought I saw a puddy
tat..."
Posts: 5826
Olympia, WA--Puget Sound--USA
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #71 -
Nov 18
th
, 2006 at 11:42pm
Evereti
What El_Pescador said--I second it!
Quote:
My USBASPI.SYS has /v /w /e /norst
/e is for USB 2...what do the others do?
/e = *enhanced* USB--i.e. USB 2.0
/w = *wait*--when you are booting and you are instructed to plug in your USB device
/v = *verbose*--shows more details of the result of loading the USB DOS driver
/norst = *no reset*--if your system loads *legacy USB support* for keyboard and mouse--this prevents the Panasonic driver from taking over the controllers for the keyboard and mouse--but may not work if your keyboard and mouse are hooked up to USB 2.0 controllers along with your USB HDD
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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Evereti
Gnarly
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Ghost Wrangler
Posts: 43
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #72 -
Nov 18
th
, 2006 at 11:59pm
Hi Guys
I have found the following available on Ebay OZ:
1) ST Lab PCI card with NEC 720101 chipset
2) Unknown brand card with NEC UPD 720100 chipset
3) Sunix card with NEC chipset (type not specified)
I guess any of these would be OK?
Cheers
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Evereti
Gnarly
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Ghost Wrangler
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #73 -
Nov 19
th
, 2006 at 1:39am
Hi again
Just tried Ghost Explorer and it works fine through the Ali PCI USB 2.0 card................I guess Ghost is more critical when doing backup and restore....??
Cheers
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NightOwl
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tat..."
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Re: Multiple Backups on same HDD
Reply #74 -
Nov 19
th
, 2006 at 8:52am
Evereti
Quote:
Just tried Ghost Explorer and it works fine through the Ali PCI USB 2.0 card
Ghost Explorer runs under Windows--uses the Windows based USB drivers which is the *native* environment that the USB standard was designed for--so expect *more* compatibility--have to be more compatible to meet the USB standards.
Doing image creation or restores--Ghost has to run in DOS--and those Windows drivers are no longer in play--must use DOS USB drivers--and how compatible those are with various USB hardware components depends on how much work the developer of those drivers put into their driver software.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
No question is stupid ... but, possibly the answers are
!
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