blackeagle

Finally got some free time myself--had to go back and re-read this whole thread to refresh my memory.....

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What are the other choices that are available ?  Because your Ghost installation CD has build *775*, it probably is not completely compatible with SATA controllers.  Some found that they had to start Ghost with a command line switch */fni* to change how Ghost accesses the controller.  Apparently the newer build of *793* solved that problem.

But, some folks had to change the SATA *mode* to *combination* or *compatibility* (or some other wording to similar effect) rather than *native* in order for the SATA controller to work properly in DOS.  One would only change that setting while using DOS and change it back to *native* as soon as they were done in DOS and ready to boot to Windows again.

So, what options are there?

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Well, looking at that list--it sure looks like the system's BIOS is wanting to offer lots of support for USB devices!  What's hard to know is if the BIOS is also trying to offer support beyond just booting from the various USB devices--your final error at the end of your post suggests that there is a possibility that that is happening.  But, perhaps it's the SATA issue mentioned above--we'll see after you see what SATA modes you have to choose from.

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Google is our friend:  Imation - USB SuperDisk review

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Good!  One issue resolved!

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Well, a little more headway!  Is this your 1TB external USB HDD?

What file system is on your external HDD above--NTFS?

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Well, it's at this stage that Ghost is *examining* the available storage media to see what it can work with--and obviously it's hitting a *brick wall*--again, this may be the SATA compatibility issue where Ghost can not properly communicate with the SATA controller.

So, let us know what those SATA options are and we'll see if there's anything that may help.

Also, do you have any other external USB HDDs--or just the one?

blackeagle

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Well, maybe when you *disable* SATA native mode, it's understood that you have now selected *compatibility* mode--hard to say--information from manufacturers is so hard to come by as to what settings in the BIOS mean!

You could try the following:

[Trial boot #1:  ]

Shut down the system.  Then boot and immediately go into the BIOS and select the *Disabled* option for the SATA mode.  Save that setting and the re-boot the system using the Ghost installation disc.  Select the USB 2.0 support option and see if you can get to DOS without a load error from Ghost.

Results?

[Trial boot #2:  ]

If the above doesn't work--here's a second test boot to try--leaving the above BIOS setting for SATA in that *Disabled* mode:

After the above first test *fails*, re-boot the system, and again boot from the Ghost installation CD.  This time, when you get the initial boot menu in PC-DOS, you should see an option to press *F8* to go into DOS diagnostic mode that allows you to go through the boot process in a step-by-step fashion--each DOS command line is presented and you have to select *Y* (yes) or *N* (no) for each command line as to whether you should load that line or not.

I know in MS-DOS that the first step when you have selected the *step-by-step* mode will be a question if you want to create a *log file*--if PC-DOS does that, too, then select *N* (no).

Then, select *Y* for all the other commands until you reach the last command which is to load *ghost.exe*--you want to select *N* (no) for this one!

Once you select *N* for the *ghost.exe* command, you should end up in the *Support* sub-directory with the drive letter of your optical drive being at the beginning of that DOS prompt line.

Now, type the following to start Ghost:

ghost.exe -fni

(There is a *space* between *ghost.exe* and the *-fni* command line switch.)

This switch for Ghost changes how Ghost accesses the HDD--and it's been reported that this helped solve issues where Ghost was not functioning compatibly with SATA controllers.  I think the update in Ghost to the build 793 solved these issues as well.

Does Ghost load successfully now? 

[Trial Boot #3:  ]

If the above *does* work!!!, then shut down the system, re-boot and enter the BIOS and change the SATA setting back to *Native Mode*--now save that change and re-boot using the Ghost installation CD.  Again use the *step-by-step* routine as outlined in test boot #2 above, using the manual load command line of *ghost.exe -fni*.

Does Ghost load successfully now?

If Trial boot #2 did not work, and you are not doing Trial boot #3, then you should shut down the system, re-boot and enter the BIOS and re-set the SATA mode to *Native*.  You can now save that setting and re-boot to Windows.

Results???

blackeagle

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Is that always true of your bootable Ghost installation disc--always have to manually change to the *Support* folder, and manually start Ghost?

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and:

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So, an error of *Divide Overflow* whether SATA Native mode is *Disabled* or *Enabled*--and Ghost is started with or without the *-fni* switch if you have selected *USB 2.0* support.

but: 

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Well, a *bad command or file name* error means DOS did not find that file in that directory--or the command was *typed* wrong.  It would have been interesting to try the *dir* command (list directory) to see if the *ghost.exe* file was listed as present!


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That's weird--if *SATA Native* mode is *Disabled*, an *extra* device shows up--not sure what give with that!

Well, it's still not clear if there's a problem with running the DOS Ghost program on your system--or some type of compatibility/conflict issue with the DOS USB driver.

How about this for better clarity: 

1.  Can you boot from the Ghost installation disc and select only *optical drive* support--do not select USB support at all.  Can you load DOS and eventually type *ghost.exe* and load Ghost from the installation disc (i.e. build 775)?

2.  When you use your bootable disc which you made from the floppy disk with Ghost build 793 on it--does that allow you to load Ghost without any errors?

blackeagle

Sorry for being slow to respond--I'm going to be out of town all next week (starting later this morning!)--and I had a project I needed to complete before I leave....

Well...it looks like DOS Ghost sees the SATA HDD fine, and you have access to the optical drive using the old DOS PATA controller drivers for optical drives, but there's something not working if Ghost's USB DOS driver is loaded.  Either there is a conflict between programs and the system's BIOS--or there's problems between the DOS programs themselves when loaded on your system's hardware--or there's some incompatibility between the USB driver and the USB HDD.

So, here's what I would still try before giving up....

1.  Try MS-DOS in place of PC-DOS to see if there's a DOS/Hardware incompatibility.

2.  Try a DOS memory manager program to see if it's a DOS/Memory configuration incompatibility.

3.  Try a different DOS USB driver rather than Ghost's USB DOS driver.

Early on in this thread you said:

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Do you have a system available that has a floppy drive--or do you have a floppy drive for your current system?

It will probably be easiest to create various boot disks that can then be modified and converted to bootable optical discs if you are able to use the Ghost Boot Disk Wizard.

So, have you installed the Ghost 2003 Windows interface on a system with a floppy drive, and have you updated the program as we discussed earlier in this thread?

If not, we can always create bootable discs without using a floppy drive:  Creating Bootable CD/DVD's Without A:\Floppy Drive.  But, that will involve a little more effort to get up to speed using that technique.

As I said, I'm out of town for the next week, but when I get back I should have more flexible free time--and we can try what I mentioned above to see if there's something we can do to make this work for you!

blackeagle

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So....is the SONY an external USB floppy drive?

And, you have it with you now and can use it on your current HP laptop--correct?

The reason I ask, you later say the following:

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So...you do, or you do not have the floppy drive available for use with the HP system?

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Actually, it would not require *Live Updating* at all!!!  After you install the version from the installation CD, you could simply use the updated version from the boot floppy disk that has the build 793 on it to replace the older version that is installed from the installation CD.

That's why I'm asking about the availability of a floppy drive!  Everything would be *easier* to do if you have a floppy drive and floppy disks to use!  You can modify the boot files on a floppy disk faster and easier than creating the boot files for a bootable optical disc without a floppy disk drive.  And then you simply use that floppy boot disk to create the bootable optical disk.

blackeagle wrote on Oct 31^st, 2009 at 3:55pm:

You misunderstood what I was saying!  I was outlining where I thought *we* should go next with our attempts to resolve your problem--I'm going to guide you every step of the way if you want to give this all a try--I never meant to imply that you knew ahead of time how to get there!

So, let me know if that floppy disk drive is available--if not, then you would have to decide if you want to get one to make creating boot disks easier--or, as mentioned previously, we can create boot files and bootable optical discs without a floppy drive--it's just more details as to how you go about it!

blackeagle

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Great!  So, let's get started.....

First step is to install Ghost 2003's Windows program on your HP laptop.  Whether you try to *Live Update* it by manually updating *Live Update* so *Live Update* can access the *archive* servers--I'll leave that decision up to you.  (But, if you do, you could report back to us here if that path to updating Ghost 2003 is still available and working:  How to obtain the programs updates that are archived on Symantec LiveUpdate server, and You need Ghost 2003 build .793 to use SATA and -FNI, here's how.)

Or, you can do what I suggested earlier--after installing the Windows Ghost program, go into the program directory where *ghost.exe* is installed.  This build from the installation disc will be the build 775.  Re-name that *ghost.exe* program to *ghost.775* (if you want to keep it around for possible future use--or you could simply *delete* it!).  Then, hook up your SONY external floppy drive, and then copy the *ghost.exe* that's on your boot floppy disk that is build 793 to the installation directory where the old build 775 has either been renamed or deleted.  (Make sure it's a *copy* operation and not a *move* operation--you want to keep that build 793 safe on that boot floppy disk for future use, if needed!)

So, now your Windows Ghost 2003 setup will be using the most recent build 793.  I don't believe any of the other program files for USB DOS drivers were updated by Live Update--so you will be using the most recent files for making any boot floppies now with the Ghost Boot Wizard!

Okay, so let's begin the testing...

Up to now, we have been booting from the Ghost Installation CD that has the old Ghost build 775 on it--and loading the USB DOS drivers, and the OS has been PC-DOS--and this has not worked with your external USB drive.

So the first test will be to see if the combination of using the newer build of Ghost--i.e. 793, and keeping everything else the same, solves the problems:

Go to the Ghost Boot Wizard, select the *Standard Ghost Boot Disk*.  On the next page, select the *USB 2.0 Support* option under *External Storage Options*--the box below for *Assign DOS drive letters* will automatically be selected, as well--leave that check box *checked*.  Select *Next*....

Leave the *Use PC-DOS* selection as is for now, and select *Next*.

The *Program Location* should be okay in its default setting.  Select *Next*.

The next page will be to Format the floppy disks--this will require two floppy disks now that the boot disk is including the needed files for the USB DOS drivers--proceed to format the floppy disks.

On the next page, you will get a summary of what the Boot Wizard is going to do.  Select *Next* and proceed.

Now, it's time to test the new boot set.  It's easiest and fastest to use the floppy disks for now until we know if they will work or not.  So, keep your SONY floppy drive connected, hook up and power on your external USB HDD, put the first boot disk of the 2 disk set in the drive, re-boot (make whatever changes may be needed to boot from a floppy drive--may require pressing *F-8* to get a boot menu to select the boot device (may be some other key--you will have to refer to your system's user guide), or perhaps a change in the BIOS boot priority.)   

When the boot process asks, tell it you are booting from a floppy drive, and then place the second boot disk in when it asks.

Results?

(Note--this may not work!  When you load the DOS USB drive drivers during boot, those drivers take over the control of the USB controller--this may over-ride your system's ability to communicate with the USB floppy drive and the boot process may fail--we will have to deal with that problem if it occurs--I don't personally have an external USB floppy drive--so I don't know exactly how a given system reacts to loading DOS USB drivers when also using a USB floppy drive--I think I've seen some reference to having to create a *RAM drive* before attempting to load the USB DOS drivers, and then copying the boot files to the RAM drive to complete the boot process--so the boot files are being read from the RAM drive and loss of access to the floppy drive doesn't matter at that point.  But, we'll have to see what happens on your system before we cross those bridges!

This problem did not occur when we booted from a bootable optical disc because the bootable optical disc creates a *virtual floppy drive*--kind of like a *RAM drive*--and so the USB DOS drivers never were an issue when using the bootable optical drive--and we may have to go that direction to *work around* this issue!

Do you have optical discs that are RW's (rewritable)?  We may be creating multiple different boot trials to optical disc--it's cheaper to use RW's rather than throwing away the one-writes as *coasters*!)

Questions?

Hi NightOwl,
                I had to enable "USB legacy support" in my BIOS so that the SONY floppy drive would be recognized. The "USB legacy support" was by default enabled on my machine and I disabled it when we started our earlier tests. Disabling it enabled the HDD external drive to be assigned a drive letter (when booting with Ghost).

There's one problem with the creation of the boot diskettes. Ghost tells me only 1 diskette is needed. I followed your instructions. Here's the configuration that I specified (from Ghost):

Client Details:
Client:      Norton Ghost
Destination:      Floppy Drive A:

Configuration Files:
AUTOEXEC.BAT:
@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
GUEST.EXE
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
CD GHOST
GHOST.EXE

CONFIG.SYS:
DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all
LASTDRIVE = Z

Now, I remember correctly that the boot diskette (with 793) that I have does indeed have the same configuration that you specify and it takes 1 diskette only.

Am I doing something wrong here?
Does it make sense that maybe I should try the LiveUpdate?
My good NG03 boot diskette was created after LiveUpdate was applied and only 1 diskette is needed.

thanks.