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blackeagle

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #45 - Nov 11^th, 2009 at 3:23pm

Hi NightOwl,
Thanks. Sorry for being a bit brief last time.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 11^th, 2009 at 9:46am:

So, your floppy drive does not show up as available in Windows if the *USB legacy support* is not *enabled* in the BIOS.Interesting--I thought the *legacy support* primarily was needed if you were booting to DOS--i.e. meaning that a USB floppy drive and/or a USB mouse, if you are using one, would not be available in DOS unless the *legacy support* was enabled.

But, I thought Windows support for USB would allow for access though the Windows interface--but apparently that's not the case based on what you have reported.

Under Windows, it doesn't matter whether USB legacy support is enabled or not. Windows can read from the SONY floppy drive even with the "USB legacy support" disabled.

And you're right to say that "USB legacy support" makes difference when booting to DOS. So I can boot with the NG03 boot diskette ONLY when USB "legacy support" is enabled. Again to clarify, with the "USB legacy support" disabled, DOS doesn't recognize my SONY floppy drive.

Below are the contents of the config.sys and autoexex.bat files from my ORIGINAL NG03 boot diskette (with version 793):

1. Contents of config.sys:

LASTDRIVE = Z

2. Contents of autoexec.bat:

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-04:00
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
CD GHOST
GHOST:EXE

Please note: Under Windows I couldn't see these above 2 system files. They are not hidden according to DOS. They have the attrib feature "A". MOUSE.INI also has attrib feature "A" but it can be seen in Windows. Please see below:

A:\>attrib
         A:\IBMBIO.COM
         A:\IBMDOS.COM
         A:\COMMAND.COM
         A:\MOUSE.COM
A       A:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
A       A:\CONFIG.SYS
A       A:\MOUSE.INI

A:\>

Now, the configuration as seen in the Norton Boot Wizard for my new boot diskette:

Client Details:
Client: Norton Ghost
Destination: Floppy Drive A:

Configuration Files:
AUTOEXEC.BAT:
@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
GUEST.EXE
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
CD GHOST
GHOST.EXE

CONFIG.SYS:
DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all
LASTDRIVE = Z

AS you can notice, there are some differences between my new boot diskette and my old original one. I thought that I had the same configuration!!! I was wrong here.

Now with the booting:
I tried with the new boot diskette and with the USB support enabled. As I normally do, I enabled the write protect tab on my diskette before using it. When booting (together with the external HDD connected), I get the messages (I skipped 1 or 2 uniformative lines):

Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

Write protect error writing drive A.
abort, retry, fail?

2nd trial booting: So what I did was to turn off and boot again with the write tab disabled. But now, PC Dos doesn't load and instead I get the message:

Non-system disk or disk error.

I tried enabling the write tab again after powering down and booting once more and I get the previous messages with the Starting PC DOS...to Write protect error writing drive A (as I wrote a few lines earlier).

3rd trial booting: With USB legacy support disabled. Of course, now the SONY floppy drive is not recognized and I'm booting directly to Windows.

Thanks

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #46 - Nov 12^th, 2009 at 10:47am

@

blackeagle

Quote:

Below are the contents of the config.sys and autoexex.bat files from my ORIGINAL NG03 boot diskette (with version 793):

Okay--now we know for sure! Even though my *original* statement about there being a *two floppy disk set* if USB support is added was wrong (if using PC-DOS!), it turns out that your original boot floppy disk does not have USB support!

As you have noted the differences--the new boot floppy disk has two important additions that are responsible for offering USB support:

[config.sys]

DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all

That driver *mounts* USB storage devices so DOS can see the device on the USB controller.

[autoexec.bat]

GUEST.EXE

That's the driver that assigns the DOS drive letter to a *mounted* USB storage device.

Quote:

Please note: Under Windows I couldn't see these above 2 system files

Probably a setting in Windows needs to be changed to *show all system files*. Try this:

Quote:

If you have not set Windows Explorer folder options to show all files, you can do the following--open Windows Explorer, select menu item *Tools/Folder Options...*

Once in *Folder Options*, click on the *View* tab, change to following settings for these entries:

--Put a *check* in the box for: *Display the contents of system folders*

--Under *Hidden files and folders*, click on the radio button *Show hidden files and folders*

--Un-check the box for: *Hide extensions for known file types*

--Un-check the box for: *Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)*

I click on *Apply to All Folders*, and if needed *Apply*, and finally *OK*. Now, all files should be visible when using Windows Explorer.

Quote:

Now with the booting:

That's interesting that changing the *write protection* tab on the floppy disk causes there to be a different behavior when you attempt to boot--don't know exactly what that's all about.....

But, the bottom line is that it appears that booting fails regardless when attempting to boot from a floppy disk using the external USB floppy drive! So, we will have to work around that issue....do you have your optical discs ready?!

What needs to be done:

Change the BIOS setting back so the *Legacy USB support* is *disabled*.

Then, using your favorite optical disc authoring software--free or paid--create a bootable optical disc from within Windows. You will open your optical disc software, make the appropriate selections for creating a bootable optical disc, and then using your SONY floppy drive, put your *single* floppy disk that you made with the Ghost Boot Wizard that has the USB support boot files on it into the SONY and point the optical disc program to the floppy drive as the source files for making the bootable disc.

This should give you a bootable optical disc that has the needed USB DOS drivers plus the updated Ghost build of 793.

Up to now, when we have used the Ghost installation CD to boot and load the USB DOS drivers--we have been using the Ghost build 775--so the change we're testing here is the updated *ghost.exe* to the 793 version.

Booting using a bootable optical disc by-passes the boot problems you encountered using the floppy disk drive, and by disabling *Legacy USB support*--hopefully that will avoid a conflict between the Ghost USB drivers and the BIOS attempt to control the USB controller.

Questions?

Results?

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #47 - Nov 12^th, 2009 at 12:59pm

Thanks NightOwl.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 10:47am:

Probably a setting in Windows needs to be changed to *show all system files*.Try this:

It's stupid of me to have forgotten about this. I forgot to unchecked the box for: *Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)*....I assumed it was already the case!

With the booting from the newly created CD (created with Roxio), I got:
Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

Write protect error writing drive A.
abort, retry, fail?

which was the same message that I got earlier with the new boot diskette with the write tab enabled.

On one occasion, I pressed "fail"...f. Ghost loads normally but it can't see the external HDD.

I don't have rewritable CDs. And I have only a few blank CDs left. Hopefully, we'll find a solution soon.

Thanks again.

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #48 - Nov 12^th, 2009 at 2:34pm

@

blackeagle

Quote:

With the booting from the newly created CD (created with Roxio), I got:
Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

Well...this does not appear to be the same behavior that we were getting awhile back when we were testing the Ghost Installation CD, booting and loading the USB DOS drivers from it.

We need to go back to your reply #30. The boot test we did there should have been essentially *identical* to what we just did--we're loading the same USB DOS drivers. Yes, we used a different boot disc that wasn't the same as the Ghost Installation CD--but the setup should have been the same!

The BIOS setting should be *Legacy USB disabled*.

Is the boot order the same as when you got this result?:

Quote:

What I'm going to write next happened with the USB external hard drive connected and I'm booting with NG03 installation CD.

After some messages in the booting process, I see the following:

ID4= ST31000528AS
Installed successfully

Now, the Ghost Installation CD did load the optical drive drivers--we didn't need to do that with the new boot disc because we're not using the *international* installation CD that has multiple language choices included--so we can fit all the boot files in the optical disc's hidden boot sector rather than having to access the data portion of the CD disc--maybe that's the difference--because we are loading more DOS programs in probably a different order--it may be effecting how DOS memory is being allocated--this may influence if and how different programs effect each other!!!

Can you re-do the boot test that we did for reply #30? Use the same setup. But, use the *F8* function to do the command lines in [config.sys] and [autoexec.bat] so you can see the results of each step.

1. Do you get the *Installed successfully* message again for the USB HDD?

2. I never asked back then, but asking now...did the next step assign a DOS drive letter to the USB HDD?

3. And, here's a new question regarding the BIOS selections available--for the boot order you discuss in reply #30--do you have to keep all those items and just change the order they're in--or can you simply *remove* or *delete* the items that don't apply to your current system setup--such as the USB CD ROM, USB super disk, or USB Hard Disk? So, can that list in the Boot Order be shortened to include only items you want--and able to add other items later if they're needed?

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #49 - Nov 13^th, 2009 at 9:40am

Thanks NightOwl. My answers next:

NightOwl wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 2:34pm:

We need to go back to your reply #30.The boot test we did there should have been essentially *identical* to what we just did--we're loading the same USB DOS drivers.Yes, we used a different boot disc that wasn't the same as the Ghost Installation CD--but the setup should have been the same!

The BIOS setting should be *Legacy USB disabled*.

Is the boot order the same as when you got this result?:

Yes, I'm doing the tests with USB legacy support disabled.

I changed the boot order some days earlier. But after reading your message I have now it as in reply #30.

With the boot order set to reply #30, I still get the same result as in Reply #47 i.e. with the abort, retry, fail.
I also tried with F8 but with the same outcome.

Next I tried to say no when it was loading MOUSE.COM. Ghost then loads. Of course, the mouse pointer is not available. Still, Ghost does not find the external HDD.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 2:34pm:

1.Do you get the *Installed successfully* message again for the USB HDD?

I never reached that step.

NightOwl wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 2:34pm:

3.And, here's a new question regarding the BIOS selections available--for the boot order you discuss in reply #30--do you have to keep all those items and just change the order they're in--or can you simply *remove* or *delete* the items that don't apply to your current system setup--such as the USB CD ROM, USB super disk, or USB Hard Disk?So, can that list in the Boot Order be shortened to include only items you want--and able to add other items later if they're needed?

It's fixed on my machine. I can't remove any.

Thanks again NightOwl

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #50 - Nov 13^th, 2009 at 12:56pm

@

blackeagle

Before we proceed, I need to have you *fill in the details* so I better understand what is happening--and when! So, I'm going to go back to a number of the results you have mentioned--and ask for more *clarifying* information!

Quote:

With the boot order set to reply #30, I still get the same result as in Reply #47 i.e. with the abort, retry, fail.
I also tried with F8 but with the same outcome.

Okay, you used the *new* boot disc created by using the Ghost Boot Wizard that is using PC-DOS and has the USB 2.0 DOS drivers added. You used that floppy disk to create a bootable optical disc using Roxio optical disc authoring software. The results you reported in reply #47 were:

Quote:

Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

Write protect error writing drive A.
abort, retry, fail?

So, the *No Devices Found* should have been the response after saying *Y* to the command line *DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all* loaded in [config.sys].

Then the *No drive letters were added* should have been the response after saying *Y* to the command line *GUEST.EXE* loaded in [autoexec.bat].

The information that's missing is what command line caused the final message that you report:

Quote:

Write protect error writing drive A.
abort, retry, fail?

Because of your next statement:

Quote:

Next I tried to say no when it was loading MOUSE.COM. Ghost then loads. Of course, the mouse pointer is not available. Still, Ghost does not find the external HDD.

, I'm guessing that that error message occurs after the command line *MOUSE.COM* in [autoexec.bat]--is that correct?

The only other time I'm aware of that you get an error message about *Write protect error writing drive A.* is after you have loaded *ghost.exe* and Ghost experiences a problem. Then Ghost attempts to write the error message to a file *GHOSTERR.TXT* to the floppy drive.

(Aaaarrrggh! Just remembered after typing the above--I'm now sure that the error message occurred after the *Mouse.com* load command in [autoexec.bat]! The reason--the Mouse driver used by Symantec in their boot disks creates a *Mouse.ini* file the first time the mouse driver runs--and it (for unknown reasons that I'm aware of) needs to write that *.ini* file to the same directory that the mouse driver was loaded from--in this case the floppy drive root directory A:\. But, because we have put those boot files into the hidden boot sector of the bootable optical disc, which creates a *virtual floppy drive* that is a read-only and can not be *written to*--that's why you get that load error *Write protect error writing drive A.*!

Oh well Roll Eyes

, we can *fix* that issue by adding the *mouse.ini* file before we burn the boot files to the optical disc--but as you noted you were able to load Ghost if you elected to say *N* to the command line *MOUSE.COM*--so we already know that Ghost was not able to see the USB HDD.)

Actually, we already knew that Ghost would not find the USB HDD because of the load error messages:

Quote:

Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

So, onto the next issue:
Quote:

NightOwl wrote on Yesterday at 2:34pm:
1.Do you get the *Installed successfully* message again for the USB HDD?

I never reached that step.

First, it looks like you did not understand my request--you seem to be answering based on booting from the *new* boot disc that we created from the Boot Wizard with the USB DOS drivers added. Look back at my rely #48:

Quote:

Can you re-do the boot test that we did for reply #30?

I was asking that you re-do the booting from the Ghost 2003 Installation CD that gave you the results:

Quote:

What I'm going to write next happened with the USB external hard drive connected and I'm booting with NG03 installation CD.

After some messages in the booting process, I see the following:

ID4= ST31000528AS
Installed successfully

The above responses from the boot process of that boot test indicates that the USB DOS driver *aspiehci.sys* had successfully seen the USB HDD. (This appears to be the only circumstances where that has happened!)

I wanted to reconfirm that result--and to see if the USB HDD was successfully assigned a DOS drive letter later when the *Guest.exe* command line was executed!

So, please re-do the boot test using the Ghost Installation disc using the same setup as outlined in reply #30--and see if the USB HDD gets a DOS drive letter assigned!

Secondly, *I never reached that step*--actually you did! When you got the responses:

Quote:

Starting PC DOS
No Devices Found
Iomega Guest Driver version 8.5
Finding a drive letter for your Iomega drive
No drive letters were added

You were using the exact same DOS USB drivers as found on the Ghost Installation disc, but you got completely different results--that's why I want to repeat the reply #30 boot test to confirm that the USB HDD was seen by the USB DOS driver and that it was assigned a DOS drive letter. I know that Ghost would not load correctly at that point, but I wanted to know that the USB DOS drivers were at least working okay!

On the new boot disc, using the same DOS USB drivers, the HDD is not seen--I can't explain that difference as yet!

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #51 - Nov 14^th, 2009 at 10:03am

Thanks!

For the first issue:

Starting PC DOS

Then I pressed F8

PC DOS will prompt you to confirm each CONFIG.SYS command

Device USB\ASPIEHCI.SYS /INT/ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
IOMEGA ASPI USB-EHCI 1.0 V.12:08 APR 2003
…
NO DEVICES FOUND

LASTDRIVE = Z[Y,N,ESC] Y

PROCESS AUTOEXEC.BAT Y
…
SET TZ=GHO-01:00 [Y,N,ESC] Y
GUEST.EXE [Y,N,ESC] Y

IOMEGA GUEST DRIVER VERSION 8.5
FINDING A DRIVE LETTER FOR YOUR IOMEGA DRIVE
NO DRIVE LETTERS WERE ADDED

MOUSE.COM [Y.N,ESC] Y
GENERAL FAILURE WRITING DRIVE A

ABORT,RETRY, FAIL?

---------------------------
For the second issue
---------------------------

I pressed F8 and choose to load USB 2.0 drivers

LASTDRIVE=Z[Y,N,ESC] Y
DEVICE=OAKCDROM.SYS /D:CDROM1 [Y,N,ESC] Y
DEVICE=ASPI2DOS.SYS [Y,N,ESC] Y
DEVICE=ASPI4DOS.SYS [Y,N,ESC] Y
DEVICE=ASPI8DOS.SYS [Y,N,ESC] Y

UNABLE TO FIND ANY AIC-78XX/AIC-75XX
ASPI8DOS.SYS INSTALLATION FAILED

DEVICE=ASPI8U2.SYS [Y,N,ESC]Y
…
PC1 BUS SCAN COMPLETE
DEVICE=HIMEN.SYS [Y,N,ESC] Y

DEVICE=ASPICD.SYS /D:CDROM2 [Y,N,ESC]
ERROR: ADAPATEC ASPI DEVICE DRIVER NOT AVAILABLE
CD-ROM DRIVER NOT LOADED: NO VALID ADAPTEC HOST ADAPTER

DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS /INI /ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
NO DEVICES FOUND

DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS /D1 /INT /ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
ID3=ST3100528AS
INSTALLED SUCCESSFULLY!

DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS /D2 /INT /ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
ADAPTER NOT PRESENT

DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS /D3 /INT /ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
ADAPTER NOT PRESENT

PROCESS AUTOEXEC.BAT….Y
…
MOUSE.COM [Y,N] Y
MOUSE DRIVER INSTALLED
GUEST [Y,N] Y
…

NO DRIVE LETERS WERE ADDED

Then comes the messages to load Ghost by choosing a language

What I did next was to view the contents of A:
It has 30 files 651, 370 bytes and 796,160 bytes free

Next I looked for other available drives. I went from A: to F:, and the only one available was C:

12 files 3,382,965 bytes
1,104,805,888 k bytes free

This amounts to about 1 TB which is the external HDD

The contents are: autorun.inf + some folders deutsch, English, Espanol..etc, one file named “products v12” and one file name start.exe of size 2.985,580 bytes. Just to see what it is, I typed start.exe but I got the message that it can’t be run in DOS mode.

The only different think from reply#30 is that I get ID3 and not ID4. I got ID4 once when I disabled sata native mode, which we talked earlier!

But here my settings were as in reply#30.

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #52 - Nov 14^th, 2009 at 11:39am

@

blackeagle

Quote:

The only different think from reply#30 is that I get ID3 and not ID4. I got ID4 once when I disabled sata native mode, which we talked earlier!

Interesting! Why the results *change* from one test to the next--even if we try to duplicate the settings and circumstances--I don't know the explanation!

Do you always plug the external USB HDD into the same USB port?

Notice, that your DOS driver for the USB HDD (DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS) is loaded three times. Each time there is a change only to the */Dx* switch--so /D1, /D2 and /D3. I had never seen that before on my system when booting from the Ghost Installation disc.

So, I extracted the boot files from my Ghost Installation disc. Here is the section in [config.sys] that corresponds to selecting to load USB 2.0 drivers:

Quote:

[COMMON]
LASTDRIVE=Z

[USB2]
DEVICE = aspiehci.sys /int /all
DEVICE = oakcdrom.sys /D:cd1
DEVICE = btdosm.sys
DEVICE = flashpt.sys
DEVICE = himem.sys
DEVICE = aspi2dos.sys
DEVICE = aspi8dos.sys
DEVICE = aspi4dos.sys
DEVICE = aspi8u2.sys
DEVICE = aspicd.sys /D:cd2

My *aspiehci.sys* is only loaded once, and does not have the */Dx* switch listed--so, I guess there have been changes to the Ghost Installation files over time and depending on where it's sold!

Quote:

Next I looked for other available drives. I went from A: to F:, and the only one available was C:

12 files 3,382,965 bytes
1,104,805,888 k bytes free

This amounts to about 1 TB which is the external HDD

Okay, you lost me here! I thought you said your optical drive was being recognized and being given the drive letter C:/. In your above listing of the results of booting, the information about you optical drive is *missing*!

What was the result when you loaded *oakcdrom.sys*?

And, when you switched to the [autoexec.bat], you don't mention loading of the *mscdexe.exe* load command that assigns drive letters to optical drives in DOS! What happened to that information?

Quote:

DEVICE=ASPIEHCI.SYS /D1 /INT /ALL [Y,N,ESC] Y
ID3=ST3100528AS
INSTALLED SUCCESSFULLY!

It appears that the USB DOS driver has *seen* your external USB HDD, but the *Installed Successfully!* part seems to be a bit too optimistic! If no drive letter is assigned when you load *Guest.exe* in [autoexec.bat], obviously something has gone wrong!

But....

Quote:

Next I looked for other available drives. I went from A: to F:, and the only one available was C:

12 files 3,382,965 bytes
1,104,805,888 k bytes free

This amounts to about 1 TB which is the external HDD

The contents are: autorun.inf + some folders deutsch, English, Espanol..etc, one file named “products v12” and one file name start.exe of size 2.985,580 bytes. Just to see what it is, I typed start.exe but I got the message that it can’t be run in DOS mode.

What file system is used on your external HDD--FATxx or NTFS?

In Windows, if you look at the file contents of you external USB HDD--do those same files show up?

The *folders* look like what you'd find on the Ghost Installation CD--I'm suspicious that you are looking at the data portion of your Ghost Installation CD!

I don't know what to think of the *1,104,805,888 k bytes free* statement--if that really is the *1 TB which is the external HDD*. DOS may be terribly confused because the system is not really loading and recognizing the external USB HDD correctly!

Well, regardless of the *new* mysteries generated above, you have answered my main question which was *did the Ghost file *guest.exe* successfully assign a DOS drive letter after the USB DOS driver *ASPIEHCI.SYS* indicated it had seen and successfully installed your USB HDD*? Obviously it did not!

So, let's move on to the next round of testing--I will post the next set of instructions in the next posting.

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #53 - Nov 14^th, 2009 at 12:00pm

@

blackeagle

So, the next test is to switch from PC-DOS to MS-DOS to see if that changes anything.

This change *should* change the Ghost Boot Wizard's behavior so that you will now create a two floppy boot disk set. And, you will probably get a message the *mouse.com* will not be included and you will not have mouse capabilities when you boot from this boot set. We will make adjustments to the boot files so we can create a bootable optical disc, and we will add back the *mouse* program.

But first, let's get MS-DOS added to the Ghost Boot Wizard:

Go to the following website:

Boot Disks

Choose the *Windows 98 SE OEM* file to download, execute the program file on a system with a floppy drive (it's okay if it's a WinXP system, etc.--the boot disk will be the original Win98 ERD (Emergency Recover Disk) regardless of the current OS and file system that you are using!), and supply a formatted floppy disk when requested.

You can leave that Win98se boot floppy disk in the floppy drive--you will use it in just a moment.

Open the Ghost Boot Wizard. Select the *Standard Ghost Boot Disk*, on the next page check the box to add *USB 2.0 Support* and the check box for *Assign DOS drive letters* will also be automatically selected. Select *Next*.

On the next screen is where you add MS-DOS to the Ghost Wizard. Select *Get MS-DOS*. And then direct the Wizard to the floppy drive location with the Win98se boot disk. After you have added MS-DOS to the Ghost Wizard, make sure you select *Use MS-DOS* and then move onto the next screen. Your location for *ghost.exe* should be listed--move to the next screen. Format the floppy disks (it should be a two disk set).

After you format the first disk, you have to *Close* the format box, then the Ghost Wizard will copy the boot files to the first floppy disk. Then you will go through the format cycle again for the second floppy disk. Just follow the prompts and everything should go fine.

Once you reach this stage, we will need to modify the boot disks so we can use them on a bootable optical disc.

I have to attend to some chores for now. I'll be back later to take you through the modification steps. Let me know it you have successfully added MS-DOS and were able to create the two floppy disk set okay.

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #54 - Nov 14^th, 2009 at 1:25pm

Hi NightOwl,
Thanks! I have been able to made the 2-set diskette with the Ghost on the second diskette. the configuration in Ghost is:

Client Details:
Client: Norton Ghost
Destination: Floppy Drive A:(Two disk set)

Configuration Files:
AUTOEXEC.BAT:
@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
GUEST.EXE
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
cls

if %config% == FROMFLPY goto FLPYBOOT
if %config% == FROMCD goto CDBOOT

goto FAILED

:FLPYBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if exist a:\ghost\ghost.exe goto GHOSTFND
goto FLPYBOOT

:CDBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if not exist b:\ghost\ghost.exe goto CDBOOT
b:
goto GHOSTFND

:GHOSTFND
cd \ghost
echo Loading...
GHOST.EXE
goto END

:FAILED
echo Unknown boot menu selection
goto END

:END

CONFIG.SYS:
[menu]
menuitem=FROMFLPY, This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk
menuitem=FROMCD, This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD

[FROMFLPY]

[FROMCD]

[COMMON]
DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all
LASTDRIVE = Z

I shall get back to you in detail for your other post.

The external HDD uses NTFS. Yes, I'm confused also as I thought C: was the CD-ROM which was identified with the oakcdrom.sys. As you're saying, Ghost is showing me the files on the installation CD but then is showing me that the size is 1TB.

Please let me know what to do next.

Stay Bright
blackeagle

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #55 - Nov 14^th, 2009 at 2:12pm

Hi again NightOwl,
I've created the 2-set diskette (please see my earlier post). Now I'm getting back to your earlier questions:

I did boot again with the installation CD and with the external HDD. I have six USB ports on my machine. I only plug in the USB external drive in 2 of the 4 ports on the RHS on my machine. When I plugged it in the lower USB port, I get ID3 and when I plugged it in the upper USB port, I get ID4!!!

Yes, after PCI bus scan complete, I get Device=Himem.sys.

Now about *mscdexe.exe

after Guest, I get: no drive letters were added.
Then, I get

if "USB2"=="fire" Guest [y,n,esc] Y
if not "USB"=="none" LH \ MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM1 /CDROM2
LH \MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM1 /CDROM2 [y,n,esc] Y
Device driver not found "CDROM2"

MSCDEX version 2.25
Device C: Driver CDROM 1 unit 0

----------
So C: is recognized as the CD drive.
A: has no label but when I type dir/p/w, I can see that it's trying to read the CD-ROM.
A: does not have folders (languages folders). It has 30 files, mostly system files.

C: has label Ghost2003. When I change from A: to C:, I can see that it's trying to read the external HDD. C: has the the language folders and some files as I mentioned earlier (with the start.exe, products). When I go to the support folder on C: to access Ghost, then it reads the CD-ROM instead.

Yes, PC-DOS is confused with my CD-drive and the external HDD.

Thanks

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #56 - Nov 15^th, 2009 at 10:28am

@

blackeagle

This is going to be a short (as you will see--that's not likely Wink

) soap box *rant* before I get to the process of creating a boot disk that can actually be useful in creating a boot disc! If you understand this information to some extent, you will better understand what we are doing and why when we create a better boot disk and disc!

What were Symantec software engineers thinking when they created the Ghost Boot Wizard in the way they did?! It certainly wasn't how to make a useful, straight forward, and flexible boot wizard!

They have actually created a function in the DOS *ghost.exe* that will create a bootable optical disc if you were saving a Ghost image to optical media--so they certainly realized that that function might be useful and desired by their customer base--but they really didn't follow through with a well thought out boot wizard!

When creating the *Standard Ghost Boot Disk*--the description for the boot disk says in part *with support for CD/DVD reading/writing*. They don't mention that the *reading/writing* will be restricted to only reading and writing exclusively to or from the Ghost image files--and that accessing the optical disc for reading or writing will only be through the Ghost DOS interface using the built-in optical drive drivers (if your optical drive was not compatible with the build-in Ghost drivers--well, too bad for you!). That means you will not be allowed to access any other data on your optical disc--which would possibly allow for more flexible boot options! (But, strangely enough--that's what Symantec has created on their bootable installation CD! In order for them to have the option of loading support for USB 1.0, USB 1.1, USB 2.0, or Firewire DOS drivers--and the choice of which language to run your Ghost program in--they created a boot sector on the optical disc that gets the basic DOS OS installed that allows for access to the data part of the installation CD. They can then place lots of additional program options in that data portion so you can load whichever Ghost language choice you want!

Next, look at some of the boot information in [config.sys] file for the *Standard Ghost Boot Disk*:

Quote:

CONFIG.SYS:
[menu]
menuitem=FROMFLPY, This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk
menuitem=FROMCD, This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD

To interpret what this means (for the longest time I couldn't understand these choices when I booted from the *Standard Ghost Boot Disk* floppy disk--there was no option to create a bootable CD using the Ghost Boot Wizard--it only creates floppy disks--so what were they talking about?!), the first choice *This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk* means you are booting from a *floppy disk*--easy enough!

The second choice *This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD* means (although it's never explained anywhere in their User Guide) that the Symantec software engineers anticipated that some users would figure out that they can create a bootable optical disc using software such as Roxio or Nero (or many others--free, shareware, or paid for software) by taking the first boot floppy disk and having that boot information transferred to the hidden boot sector of the optical disc. But, as I say the User Guide is silent about their intentions--they never explain that this was their anticipated intention--it's all a mystery!

But, because the Ghost Boot Wizard can only make floppy boot disks which are 1.44 MB in size--so they can only contain a limited number of boot files, the Symantec Engineers knew that the Boot Wizard was going to make a two floppy disk set. And the Symantec Engineers assumed that the system used to make boot floppy disks must, by default, always have a floppy drive available! Why do I say that? By following the boot file commands:

(I'm going to break this rant here and continue in the next post!)

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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #57 - Nov 15^th, 2009 at 11:41am

@

blackeagle

So, a continuation of reply #56 above:

Let's follow the boot file commands!

Quote:

CONFIG.SYS:

[menu]
menuitem=FROMFLPY, This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk
menuitem=FROMCD, This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD

[FROMFLPY]

[FROMCD]

[COMMON]
DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all
LASTDRIVE = Z

This [config.sys] boot file uses the *[menu]* commands--this is what gives you the chance to choose different configurations to be loaded from the boot files of [config.sys] and [autoexec.bat] during a DOS boot sequence. The *menuitem=FROMFLPY* creates one configuration option which governs what commands are going to be followed and which commands will be ignored.

So, the *menuitem=FROMFLPY, * creates the category--but all you will see on your system is the *text* portion of that command--*This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk*. Once you create the menu items, you then have to list those menu items and what special configuration commands you want for each of them. So, in the above [config.sys], the [FROMFLPY] has nothing under that section--that means there are no special specific configuration settings that need to be loaded in the [config.sys] boot file.

Also, the second category *menuitem=FROMCD, * the [FROMCD] also has no specific commands under it--so in [config.sys] there are no special commands needed for either choice!

The [COMMON] section is for any commands that will apply to all possible menu choice that you have created--so regardless of which choice you make--in [config.sys] you will load *DEVICE = usb\aspiehci.sys /int /all* and *LASTDRIVE = Z*.

Then we move onto the [autoexec.bat] file:

AUTOEXEC.BAT:

Quote:

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
GUEST.EXE
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
cls

if %config% == FROMFLPY goto FLPYBOOT
if %config% == FROMCD goto CDBOOT

goto FAILED

:FLPYBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if exist a:\ghost\ghost.exe goto GHOSTFND
goto FLPYBOOT

:CDBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if not exist b:\ghost\ghost.exe goto CDBOOT
b:
goto GHOSTFND

:GHOSTFND
cd \ghost
echo Loading...
GHOST.EXE
goto END

:FAILED
echo Unknown boot menu selection
goto END

:END

So, in [autoexec.bat] you use the same categories that you set up in [config.sys]. And, you can have additional sections that relate to only the [autoexec.bat] commands (for example *:GHOSFND* is not a menu item set up in [config.sys]). And, there is also a *Common* section--but it is not *labeled* in [autoexec.bat] like it is in [config.sys].

So the first listed commands that are not under a specific *:xxxxxx* section are the *Common* commands that will be carried out for all possible configurations:

Quote:

@echo off
SET TZ=GHO-01:00
GUEST.EXE
MOUSE.COM
echo Loading...
cls

Then the next command lines link the category menu items created in [config.sys] to the sections to be continued in [autoexec.bat]:

Quote:

if %config% == FROMFLPY goto FLPYBOOT
if %config% == FROMCD goto CDBOOT

And, the sections in [autoexec.bat] are not listed under [xxxxxx] using brackets, but by *:xxxxxx* where the section is preceded by a *:* colon.

So, the *goto* command looks for anything that matches the section listed after that command that has a colon in front of it--so *goto FLYBOOT* looks for the :FLYBOOT section.

So, lets assume we selected the *This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk* menu item in [config.sys], the *common* commands in [autoexec.bat] are carried out, and then the boot process jumps to the :FLPYBOOT section to carry out those specific commands:

Quote:

:FLPYBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if exist a:\ghost\ghost.exe goto GHOSTFND
goto FLPYBOOT

So, the *echo* command tells DOS to print the following text to the screen--in this case: *Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)*. The *pause* command stops the execution of the [autoexec.bat] command lines until you have a chance to do the indicated action requested by the listed text. There is a *Press any key to continue ....* message displayed as part of the *pause* command.

The *if exist a:\ghost\ghost.exe goto GHOSTFND* specifically directs the program to look in floppy drive A:\, subdirectory *ghost*, for the *ghost.exe* program. If it's found, the the next command is to jump to *GHOSTFND*. If it's not found, then the program executes the next command line which is to *goto FLPYBOOT* section that you are already in--so you are in an endless loop until you do the correct action that allows the program to fine *ghost.exe*!

If the program found *ghost.exe* in A:\Ghost\, then you jump to the section GHOSTFND

Quote:

:GHOSTFND
cd \ghost
echo Loading...
GHOST.EXE
goto END

This section tells the boot file to *cd \ghost*--the *cd* is change directory, the *\ghost* says the directory is in the root directory of the current drive (i.e. A:\) because it does not specify a drive letter in front of /ghost , and of course the directory name is ghost .

The *echo* command prints the following text to the screen: Loading... . So, you know that the system is reading the file from the floppy drive into RAM.

And the final command *Ghost.exe* tells DOS to load Ghost into RAM, and you should see the opening Ghost screen once loaded!

So, what happens if you select *This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD* instead?

(Running out of room in this post, so onto the next!)

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	Re: external (desktop) hard drive Reply #58 - Nov 15^th, 2009 at 1:54pm Hi NightOwl, Thanks for taking the time to write all these detailed explanations. I must actually print your messages so that I can read and eventually understand. I'll get back to you tomorrow. Thanks again
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Re: external (desktop) hard drive
Reply #59 - Nov 15^th, 2009 at 2:42pm

@

blackeagle

And, another continuation from reply #57!

So, instead of *This computer was started from a Ghost boot disk*, we select *This computer was started from a Ghost bootable CD*--so now we follow the *FROMCD* configuration command lines.

FROMCD has no special command lines in [config.sys]--so just the [Common] commands will load.

In [autoexec.bat], the *common* lines load as before, and then because we selected *FROMCD* in [config.sys], we now jump to the :CDBOOT section:

Quote:

if %config% == FROMCD goto CDBOOT

Quote:

:CDBOOT
echo Insert Ghost boot disk 2 (containing Ghost.exe)
pause
if not exist b:\ghost\ghost.exe goto CDBOOT
b:
goto GHOSTFND

This is where I first discovered that the floppy drive (if you have one available on your system) is still available even if you boot from a bootable CD!!!!

When you boot from a bootable optical disc, the boot process creates a *virtual A:\ floppy drive*. Your boot files are transferred (or perhaps there is just a slight of hand and the system is *redirected* to the hidden boot sector of the optical disc to read those boot files from the optical disc--don't know the exact specifics).

Well, systems have drive letter A:\ and drive letter B:\ reserved for *floppy disk drives* by the BIOS. The *virtual floppy drive* created by the bootable optical disc gets priority and is assigned the DOS drive letter A:\--and the physical floppy disk drive, if present, gets bumped to second position, and therefore gets drive letter B:\.

So, this is what I was talking about that the Symantec software engineers assumed that even if you boot from an optical disc, you still will have a floppy drive available (because they created a Boot Wizard that only works with physical floppy disks and drives!)

So, knowing that a bootable optical disc will have used floppy drive letter A:\, and you have told the boot files that you have booted from a bootable disc, it directs you to B:\ instead.

The *echo* command prints the instructions to screen to put your *floppy boot disk #2* into the the floppy drive. You have to *Press any button to continue....*

Oddly enough, they use a different wording with this command line:

Quote:

if not exist b:\ghost\ghost.exe goto CDBOOT

The previous command line when booting from the floppy disk was:

Quote:

if exist a:\ghost\ghost.exe goto GHOSTFND

But, you end up in the same endless loop if you have not put the floppy disk in the floppy drive so the command line can find the *ghost.exe* program on the B:\ drive, in the *ghost* sub-directory! You get sent back to the beginning of the :CDBOOT section if *ghost.exe* is not found.

If *ghost.exe* is found, then it executes the next line: b:
That's the DOS command to change the DOS prompt to the drive letter B:\ --you were initially at the drive letter A:\ during initial booting.

Then you're directed to *goto GHOSTFND* and that completes the loading of the of *ghost.exe*.

Now, in the Ghost Boot Wizard--select the *CD/DVD Startup Disk with Ghost*--this option will create a boot disk that assigns DOS drive letters to your optical drive(s), and allow you to access data on the optical disc via the DOS drive letter.

But, note--there are no options now to add external USB or Firewire HDD support files!!!!

This lack of generally useful boot disk or disc support drove me crazy when I first started using Ghost 2003--that's why I taught myself to create *custom* boot disks and discs for using with Ghost!!!!

So, hopefully this *DOS Boot Disk* primer will help someone understand the upcoming custom modifications we're going to do to the boot files!

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