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Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's (Read 60326 times)
NightOwl
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #165 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 11:55am
 
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roxe

roxe wrote on Oct 22nd, 2013 at 11:38pm:
Quote:
Do you have another HD to try in the caddy? Does it also stop WinXP from loading?


the second laptop drive above... yes got the everlasting blue worm.


Quote:
Edit.... does the blue worm issue occur with the WinXP in the logical volumes?

yes

having the ssd drive in and going into w7... it installs hardware and then has that icon in the tray to safely remove hardware...

it has that icon in the tray for the dvd drive too... so I clicked on it and it said *eject dvd blah blah blah*... I clicked again and it kept saying the same thing... so i took the dvd drive out... and a warning came up not to take it out since it was being used (not)... but when the warning went away, that icon in the tray was gone too.

in device mgr, the dvd is under the heading dvd...

but the hdd caddy is under the heading of drives, and there is no dvd heading...

no, i didn't try removing the hdd caddy using the tray icon... but did notice that each time i put the hdd caddy in, w7 installs and then says install is finished and the tray icon is there...

when the dvd caddy is in, w7 doesn't install anything, but the tray icon is there...


definitely weird...

i think way back i did take the dvd caddy out while in xp... no tray icon for it there... and put the hdd caddy in... and nada...

seems to me that the caddys need to be changed with the computer off... so the bios gets set up right...
don't know for sure tho...


Maybe not so *weird*.... you might have some clues in all this that might point at the problem!

One of the features of the AHCI driver is *hot swapping* for SATA HDDs.  Your description for the Win7 behavior sounds like it is seeing the SATA HDD caddy as a *removable* device--similar to how a USB flash drive is treated--i.e. hot swappable--with best practice (in WinXP) to use the *Safely Remove Hardware* option in the system tray to make sure there are no pending writes to the USB drive before its removal.

If I understand correctly, as long as the SATA HDD caddy is not hooked up, then the WinXP will boot just fine.  If the caddy is present, then the system will not boot successfully--just get that *blue worm*.  As I said before, sounded like a driver problem--and now, I'm starting to think there's something amiss with the AHCI driver.  What's the problem....don't know.  But, I think you need to look at that for clues.

Way back when, you posted this: 

roxe wrote on Oct 14th, 2013 at 12:18am:
The usff doesn't have a floppy drive... and I've put the AHCI files into the install using n-lite... nifty little program

But it wouldn't install on the usff today... tried a bunch of stuff... so searched on the 'net and found out that if I changed the SATA AHCI (default) to ATA, it would install... but wouldn't have the AHCI...So did some more research and came up with a web page talking about FlashBoot... so I printed out that page... and got all the apps needed... and made me a flash drive bootable which will make this computer and xp pro install disk think that it is taking the AHCI files from a floppy but is really coming from a flash drive!

Then you said:

roxe wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 11:16pm:
Finally got xp pro installed on the optiplex, AND it is imaged. So amazing... used n-Lite to take my XP Pro OS with sp2 of 583mb, sp3 of 546mb, a Security update pack of 98mb, and the pre-install AHCI driver... 

In the first quote, you said you *n-lited* the AHCI drivers and could not install WinXP if AHCI was enabled in the BIOS, and in the second quote you said you *n-lited* the AHCI drivers and you were successful installing WinXP.  I suspect you have mixed up the sequencing of events when you were reporting the results...but, I wasn't there looking over your shoulder....so I don't know for sure!

But, regardless, my point is what exactly is the status of your attempt to install the AHCI driver?  Have you looked in WinXP's Device Manager, and does it say the HDD controller is using the AHCI driver?

I presume the BIOS is set to AHCI? 

Is there a setting for each of the two SATA HDDs (i.e. two controllers with one channel each) in the BIOS after you insert the HDD caddy--or is it just a single setting (i.e. one controller with two channels).

Since WinVista, the AHCI driver has been included in the installation package.  WinXP you have to add the AHCI driver--and it is chipset specific--you have to have the correct driver for the specific hardware.  Your Win7 is seeing the HDD caddy just fine--so this probably means the AHCI driver is installed and working fine.  But, your WinXP is having a problem if the HDD caddy is present--so something's probably wrong with the AHCI driver.

Where might the problem be?   Maybe the AHCI driver is an older version--need updating?  Maybe the OptiPlex BIOS is dated--maybe need to flash with an updated BIOS?  Maybe your n-lite modified installation disc is somehow not installing all necessary components?

So links for reading:

https://www.google.com/#q=ahci+drivers+for+xp
http://superuser.com/questions/427340/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-xp-without-r...
https://www.google.com/#q=why+enable+ahci+driver&start=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Host_Controller_Interface
http://superuser.com/questions/4020/why-should-i-choose-or-not-ahci-over-ide-in-...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/351664-31-should-enable-ahci-build
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/269918-32-enable-ahci-mode-installing-windows

Out of room, see next post!
 

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NightOwl
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #166 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 12:03pm
 
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roxe

A final link:

http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Why-do-i-need-AHCI-with-a-SSD...

The various links may lead to an answer to the problem...don't know for sure.

roxe wrote on Oct 14th, 2013 at 12:18am:
But it wouldn't install on the usff today... tried a bunch of stuff... so searched on the 'net and found out that if I changed the SATA AHCI (default) to ATA, it would install... but wouldn't have the AHCI...

Is that the setting in your BIOS?  Or, is it something like *Legacy IDE*?

Just out of curiosity, did you at any point install WinXP with the OptiPlex BIOS set to that *ATA* setting, could you boot to WinXP with the HDD caddy in place, and did the caddy HDD show up okay with that BIOS setting and install--in other words, without the AHCI driver?
 

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roxe
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #167 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:27pm
 
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The first time I tried installing xp on opti... i used the n-lited version i made 4-5 years ago for my tower and the toshiba laptop

thats why it didn't work... wrong ahci for the opti.

when i found the ahci driver on dell, it said it was for xp, vista, w7, etc...done in 2010...

i never installed without ahci...

in xp, there is NO tray icon for either dvd caddy or the hdd caddy... in device mgr the dvd caddy appears under the heading dvdrom...

in w7, in device mgr the hdd caddy appears under the drive heading... and there are two hdd in there, the internal sata and the caddy sata...

both w7 and xp have the ahci driver under device mgr heading of *ide ata/atapi controllers*...

btw, every time i boot xp, i get the blue worm screen but it only makes less than two whole passes... when the hdd caddy is in it keeps going and doesn't quit until i shut the opti off...

sounds like i need to chat with a dell person... and ask about the hdd caddy and xp...
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #168 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:39pm
 
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Brian

Brian wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:32am:
I saw crocodiles last week but I can't help with your alligator.


i already got the alligator... it's the chimpanzee i need help with.

Quote:
Thanks for doing those tests. Excellent work. It looks like WinXP needs drivers to be able to see the drive in the caddy. Check with Dell. I doubt a reinstall of WinXP with the caddy present would help but anything is possible. Otherwise Win7 might have to become your primary OS.


no, i'll keep xp pro my primary for now... but it is nice to know i can use w7 to watch the videos on the ssd drives in the caddy.

Quote:
Regarding the poor performance of the SSD. Which OS was installed? WinXP or Win7? Was the partition 2048 sector aligned? Non aligned partitions can lead to poor performance.

xp pro was installed... and i found a program specially for ssd drives that aligned everything, cuz i had three or four partitions on the drive.

Quote:
WinXP on a SSD doesn't have TRIM and may suffer performance issues after prolonged use.

yeah, i got so disgusted with it, that i went back to my reg toshiba sata drive... imaged the OS from the ssd to the sata, cuz i was curious, had to defrag FIVE times to get it all straight Shocked

so now they're just glorified flash drives holding videos...

BTW...
i don't know how flash drives are formatted at purchase... do they have a extended drive with logical on them?? or are they just formated with no partition on the drive... do you know?
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #169 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:46pm
 
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NightOwl

yeah, been thinking about flashing the bios...

the bios in the opti is A03.... s/b A17, or A21...

the flash process is supposed to be able to run from within the OS... then it reboots, flashes the bios, and then boots back into the OS.

i want to get a ups before doing that... sure as shootin if i did it now, the power would go out in the middle of it...

THAT's what i've been needing to do and forgot what it was... thanks so much NightOwl for reminding me Smiley... been bothering me since i thought of it when i got the opti and promptly forgot...  i'll go order one now... Smiley
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #170 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 2:34pm
 
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roxe

roxe wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:39pm:
i don't know how flash drives are formatted at purchase


They contain a primary partition. You can delete and re-create the partition in BIBM. You can also do this in Disk Management.

Of interest, but perhaps of little use is you can create several primary partitions on a flash drive with BIBM. But Windows can only see the partition set Active. BIBM can change the Active partition so the flash drive could perform several functions.

Regarding SSDs. I think you had a bad experience. I'm not sure which software you used but I tested one that was supposed to produce 2048 sector alignment and it was a disaster. SSDs are just amazing for speed.

If you are interested, I'd backup your data on the SSD and delete the Extended partition. Install the SSD in the HD0 position in the Optiplex and create a 30 GB primary NTFS partition, 2048 sector aligned. Restore your Win7 image. I'd be surprised if Win7 didn't boot in a quarter of the time and all apps open and run much faster.
 
 
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Dan Goodell
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #171 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 2:54pm
 
Brian wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:32am:
WinXP on a SSD doesn't have TRIM and may suffer performance issues after prolonged use.


Brian, does the TRIM button in BIBM help in this scenario?  My assumption is it serves the same purpose as a TRIM-aware OS like Win7, but just not in real-time while the OS is working.  Would periodically using BIBM's TRIM button on the XP partition serve to keep it adequately TRIM'd?  (My SSD's XP partition hasn't been in use long enough to have any real world experience yet.)


 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #172 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 3:07pm
 
Dan, yes it does and I use it for my WinXP partition (every few weeks) and whenever I delete a partition on the SSD. When I first tried the TRIM button it didn't work, until I realized the Bus option needs to be set to BIOS (direct).
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #173 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 5:19pm
 
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Brian

Brian wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 2:34pm:
Regarding SSDs. I think you had a bad experience. I'm not sure which software you used but I tested one that was supposed to produce 2048 sector alignment and it was a disaster. SSDs are just amazing for speed. 

http://www.partitionwizard.com/index.html

the free home edition one... cuz i had partitioned the drive using xp on a toshiba sata drive, it found all the partitions on the disk misaligned... and fixed them

i did alot of reading before buying the ssd... and everyone said to not defrag the drive at all... that the drive would last longer without defragging...

don't know anything about ssd... just read what others had to say...

i just know that it got slower and slower to do things and boot up...
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #174 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 2:00am
 
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roxe

roxe wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:46pm:
yeah, been thinking about flashing the bios...

Having thought about it....if Win7 is able to detect and work with the HDD caddy given the current BIOS, then it's hard to say that it is the likely problem for the WinXP not being able to work with the caddy.

Could be a mis-match between BIOS and driver, but I suspect more something about the driver and its installation.

roxe wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:46pm:
THAT's what i've been needing to do and forgot what it was... thanks so much NightOwl for reminding me

You're welcome!  (Guess I got lucky on that one!)
 

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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #175 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:37am
 
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NightOwl wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 2:00am:
Having thought about it....if Win7 is able to detect and work with the HDD caddy given the current BIOS, then it's hard to say that it is the likely problem for the WinXP not being able to work with the caddy.

yeah, but w7 is a more advanced animal than xp... it has drivers and stuff that xp doesn't have...

I've left a question at the Dell forum... you would think that they would know the answer... so far no replies.

And the BIOS updates do fix stuff...like the way they hand off stuff to the OS, right?  so when I get my UPS unit, I'll flash it to the latest one and see what happens.

I'd like to learn how to have one of those DOS partitions to include BIBM, and the files off my Ghost imaging CD... and then how to run Ghost from there... I think that would be so neat to not have to use a CD...

I'm going to put my images hdd into the opti, and try using the image CD and see if it can see that drive.

talkatchalater Smiley
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #176 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 1:39pm
 
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roxe

Quote:
I'd like to learn how to have one of those DOS partitions to include BIBM, and the files off my Ghost imaging CD... and then how to run Ghost from there... I think that would be so neat to not have to use a CD...


You can adapt this.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=363

There is a menu which can be edited to enable one click Ghost imaging and restoring.
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #177 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 2:57pm
 
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I don't understand why you just stopped getting my hdd caddy working...

I re-put the drive into the caddy (after putting two primary partitions on the drive) and screwed it down this time... in xp pro swapped the cd caddy and the hdd caddy...

and it started trying to install new hardware!!!! first time i've seen that... of course, it never stopped trying...

so went into device mgr, and under Disk Drives there was a *Disk Drive*... rt clkd on properties... and on the first tab in the drive status box it says *no drivers are installed for this device*...

under the details tab, it gives this string...
IDE\DISKTOSHIBA_MK1246GSX______________LB213D____\4&3286F775&0&0.1.0

I posted on the dell forum last night asking for help with getting this hdd caddy to be seen in xp... so far no replies... so posted the above info this morning and asked Dell if they would share the needed driver with me... and *Please help me*...

will see if anyone responds...

so tried shutting down xp... hung for a long time at the *windows is shutting down* screen... so shut it off and swapped back to the cd caddy...

gonna have to make myself one of those flash drive installs... so i can put the hdd caddy in while installing... maybe and maybe not it would work...

thanks for the info on making a dos partition... do I need to reformat the 500gb to do this?? 

the files on the cd come to 1.23mb... so should the partition be around 16mb... so it can hold both bibm and the image files with a little room to spare?

going to read the white paper...
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #178 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 3:19pm
 
Quote:
and it started trying to install new hardware!!!! first time i've seen that... of course, it never stopped trying...

Quote:
gonna have to make myself one of those flash drive installs... so i can put the hdd caddy in while installing... maybe and maybe not it would work...


ok... got it... if the *trying to install new hardware* can't get the driver right, then having the hdd caddy in place while installing xp pro isn't going to work either...

right??
 
 
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Re: Using TeraByte's BIBM to MultiBoot 3, or more OS's
Reply #179 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 3:46pm
 
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roxe

roxe wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 2:57pm:
don't understand why you just stopped getting my hdd caddy working...


I was hoping Dell would provide the drivers.

roxe wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 2:57pm:
thanks for the info on making a dos partition... do I need to reformat the 500gb to do this??


No. I have a really easy method for you. But get the caddy working first. Find the correct driver.

Let me get this straight. Can you now boot into WinXP with the caddy in the computer?

Edit... You attached the HD caddy after WinXP had loaded. OK now.
 
 
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