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Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved? (Read 28860 times)
Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #30 - Jun 17th, 2005 at 9:34pm
 
NightOwl,

With all the local area network and Internet settings as described previously, I went through all of the printer and printer sharing settings I could find in both the Win 98 desktop and the XP laptop. Then, in the Printers and Faxes folder, I found there were four items: Fax, HP Deskjet 722C (my only printer, which is wired to the desktop by a parallel cable), Microsoft Office Document Image Writer, and something called HP PRINTER ON DESKTOP. I recognized this last item as a name I had assigned to my only printer while making one of the sharing settings. There were sharing hands under the icons for the HP DEskjet 722C and the Microsoft Office Document Image Writer, and the HP 722C had a check mark next to it indicating it was the default printer. Leaving these as they were, I then attempted to send a document from the laptop to the printer over my wireless network for printing. No error messages occurred. The printing dialog box appeared and I okayed it, a progress bar did its thing and all looked well. But it didn't print.

I returned to the Printers and Fax folder and changed the default printer to the HP PRINTER ON DESKTOP, then tried printing again. Bingo. It worked, and I am very happy about that. I think it implies that successful file sharing is also close at hand. But I am puzzled by why there are two printers shown in the Printers and Fax folder when I have only one, and why the one that is now designated as the default pinter has no sharing hand under its icon when it is obviously sharing. (The other one still does have a hand under it.) No doubt it's due to erroneous settings I made somewhere. I would like to get rid of the second printer icon and get a sharing hand under the printer icon that works, to avoid any later confusion,  but I am reluctant to disturb settings i don't really understand that are somehow working. I need advice.

Harold
 
 
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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #31 - Jun 18th, 2005 at 10:43am
 
NightOwl,

With printer sharing working (though with a few unresolved questions; see previous message), I made all the file sharing settings I could find on both the desktop and the laptop. Since I am the only user, I set things up to fully share the C: disks of both computers without passwords or other restrictions. After doing this, I was able to access the Win 98 desktop files from the XP laptop over the wireless network. However, I couldn't go the other way. If Network Neighbourhood were present, I think it would work now, but in attempting to find an alternative to NN (the Run function for example), I think I didn't use the right name for the laptop's C: drive. I received an error message saying the file I was trying to access wasn't logged in. I wonder where to look for the correct name to use, or if something else needs to be done.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #32 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 12:19am
 
Harold

I was glad to read that you are getting things sorted out!

Here's a reference that may help a bit more:

Set Up a Workgroup


Over on the right side, there are 'Related Articles' that talk about 'file sharing' and 'printer sharing'.

In particular--looks like you want all the computers on 'your' network to share the same 'network' or 'group' name--while each individual computer will have it's own unique name.

As for the printer--can you go to the Control Panel applet for 'Printers' and 'right-click' the specific printer and then select either 'sharing' or 'properties', and on the next menu screen select the 'sharing' tab.  Here, you can select to share or not to share and that should make the printer icon show if it's shared or not.

Sounds like you may have installed the printer driver for your printer more than once, and that's why you have 'extra' printers listed.  I think you can simply uninstall your printer drivers, and then reinstall, and follow the guidelines in the above reference to get everything set up properly.

Report back with your procress...
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #33 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 8:55am
 
NightOwl,

Happy to report that file sharing on my wireless network is now working in both directions, from laptop to desktop and from desktop to laptop, and printer sharing is working as well. I don't have Network Neighbourhood back on the Win 98 computer, which I had hoped to do, but as far as I can tell,  everything can be done that could be done if Network Neighbourhood were back. I can use either the Run function or the Find function on the Win 98 computer in place of Network Neighborhood to access the laptop computer files.

The network sharing from desktop to laptop was being prevented because I hadn't realized that the user is required to log in on the desktop at startup to gain permission to access files over the network. As soon as I did that, it began working. I think Microsoft's error message for this situation could be improved. It did mention that something was not logged in but it sounded to me like it was the files in the laptop, not the user of the desktop, that were not logged in.

From the desktop, I am still denied access to some files on the laptop, but I assume this is just a matter of going to those files and marking them as shared in some way (or I may need to log in as the administrator). In particular, I am interested in accessing the DVD drive on the laptop to answer a question that I started this whole thread to answer, and started another thread on Ghost 2003 image recording over a wireless network to answer, namely: can Ghost 2003 send a hard disk image over a wireless network and cause it to be recorded and verified directly on a DVD drive in another computer on the network. I recall there were some posts speculating on whether this was possible. I will report what I find out.

I thank you for guiding me through this whole process of straightening out my network settings and getting my printer and file sharing working. With my sketchy understanding of these things, there were too many variables for me to handle and I wouldn't have been able to do it. It means a lot to me to be able to sit in some comfortable spot upstairs, or even outdoors, with my laptop and send print jobs to the printer in my spartan cellar, then go down later to collect them. I can also sit outdoors in the sun with appropriate refreshment and work on files in the computer in the cellar.

Using computers can be fun, when it's not otherwise!

Harold

PS - I meant to say that your cure also worked for my problem of having two printers showing in my Printers folder, and elswhere, when I actually have only one printer. Removal of a redundant driver from the computer fixed the problem. Now the remainimg printer icon has the sharing hand under it as well as the default checkmark next to it.
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #34 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 11:31am
 
Harold

Good to hear of your success!

I wasn't 100 %, but pretty sure that you didn't need 'Network Neighborhood' for sharing.

Did you ever try the TweakUI program to restore the 'Network Neighborhood? 

If 'No', you might still give that a try--I would do the following steps:  1.  Download and install TweakUI v1.33 for Win98 on the Win98 desktop system, 2.  Use TeadkUI to make sure the setting for 'Network Neighborhood' is to 'show' icon on desktop,  3.  Reboot  4.  If still no icon, uninstall and then reinstall 'Client for Microsoft Networks' in the 'Network' Control Panel applet, 5.  Re-boot. 

If still no 'Network Neighborhood', I'm out of ideas for now!

I think I can save you from additional trial and error time testing saving a Ghost image from one computer to an optical writer on another computer:

Using Ghost to save or write an image to a different computer


Under 'Technical Information':

Quote:
Ghost does not support saving an image file directly to a CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, or similar device when the source image is on one computer and the device is attached to a different computer. However, Ghost can save in image file directly to a CD-R, CD-RW, or DVD drive when that drive is attached to the local computer.


and here:

How to save an image file directly to a CD/DVD R/RW disc


Under 'Solution':

Quote:
The Burner must be attached directly to the computer where the Source data is stored.


 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #35 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 12:30pm
 
NightOwl,

I did try using TweakUI to get Network Neighbourhood back previously but will try it again using your steps. I'm not greatly concerned anymore with getting Network Neighbourhood back except for the feeling of completeness of my Windows 98 software. And I think it would be a little easier to click the NN icon on the desktop rather than use the Run or Find function to access the local network.

Thanks for the references to statements that Ghost 2003 can't record an image directly to a DVD drive on a remote computer.  No doubt that's the case, and it seems to be borne out by my experience using BartPE networking. I may try it with Windows networking anyway, on the basis of this experience: When I first had trouble trying to share my printer wired to my Win 98 desktop with the laptop, I contacted Hewlett Packard and asked if my HP Deskjet 722C printer was compatible with the Windows XP OS on my laptop and I could therefore hope to share it . They did some digging in their technical files and came back with the answer, Sorry, they are not compatible; it can't work. I'm glad I tried it anyway.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #36 - Jun 20th, 2005 at 11:21pm
 
Harold wrote on Jun 20th, 2005 at 12:30pm:
"... When I first had trouble trying to share my printer wired to my Win 98 desktop with the laptop, I contacted Hewlett Packard and asked if my HP Deskjet 722C printer was compatible with the Windows XP OS on my laptop and I could therefore hope to share it . They did some digging in their technical files and came back with the answer, Sorry, they are not compatible; it can't work. I'm glad I tried it anyway..."

Harold -

I am too tangled up in all sorts of ways right now to unravel the mystery for you, but I am running a HP OfficeJet 710 on XP Home Edition SP2 - albeit I went through Hell turning up the software with Google searches to make it happen.

Vice-President John Nance 'Cactus Jack' Garner used to remark that his august office was "not worth a warm bucket of spit"; nowadays, I do not hold such technical advice doled out by the computer industry in much higher regard myself.  Maybe on down the road I will be able to turn something up for you.

El Pescador
 

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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #37 - Jun 21st, 2005 at 4:50am
 
El Pescador,

Thanks for your response regarding my search for Network Neighborhood and alternative ways to network locally. I'm in good shape now thanks to NightOwl's help, able to network and share wirelessly between my Win 98 desktop and my XP laptop even without finding NN, but will continue to keep an eye out for NN and would appreciate any future suggestions.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #38 - Jun 26th, 2005 at 3:29pm
 
NightOwl,

Now that network file sharing is working on my wireless network (wireless XP laptop and Win 98 desktop wired by Ethernet to a router/access point), I am getting back to my original purpose in trying to get network sharing to work, namely: to use Ghost 2003 to put a backup image of my desktop hard disk on the laptop hard disk, from which it could be burned to a set of DVD disks using the laptop DVD burner.

After scanning and defragmenting the desktop HD and logging on (I found that networking doesn't work from desktop-to-laptop without logging on to the desktop with a password), I started Ghost 2003 on the desktop and tried to set things up so the image would go directly to the DVD drive on the laptop. I soon got a message saying that the disk in the DVD drive on the laptop couldn't be accessed for direct image recording (it said there was no disk in the drive, although there was). This confirmed what everyone had been trying to tell me. So I restarted Ghost and this time browsed for a "Shared" folder I had put on a separate partition on the laptop hard disk. It was there and showed as: "\\LAPTOP\Shared", to which I added a file name: "Ghost 2003-6-05". I then proceeded to click the Next buttons until Ghost went into DOS and began the imaging. But the following message appeared:

"Ghost cannot continue because the Ghost image is on a network drive that maps a subdirectory of a network share rather than the share itself (the DOS client cannot map to a subdirectory). Please map a network drive to the network share and try again. \\LAPTOP\Shared\Ghost2003-6-05.gho"

I'm not sure I understand this message and wonder if you can enlighten me.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #39 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 4:52am
 
NightOwl said I should join in.

I found some old notes so see if this helps.


In Win98 open My Computer, click Tools, Map Network Drive, Choose any Drive letter but E is probably on top so E: it is.
In Path type \\LAPTOP\Shared
Tick Reconnect at logon.    OK.

Close and reopen My Computer. You will see your new E: drive. Use this mapped drive as your destination when you run Ghost 2003. That’s the limit of my knowledge here.


I’ve recalled a quick way (3 minutes) of networking a Win98 computer to a WinXP computer. Put your WinXP CD in the Win98 CD drive. When it auto-starts, click Perform Additional Tasks. Then click Set up a home or small office network. Windows copies some files, restarts, installs more files and then runs you through a network wizard where you choose the first dot for gateway, type your Workgroup name etc. It asks for the Win98 CD to copy some files and then you click Finish. It restarts, asks for your network Username and password (the WinXP ones). Now you can connect to the internet immediately if you have a router. File and printer sharing is enabled. Network Neighbourhood is present and shows all your networked computers. A Shared Documents folder is present in My Documents.
 
 
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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #40 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 10:14am
 
Brian,

In Win 98, the Map Network Drive designation was 'F' so I left it, entered the name of the shared file on laptop partition D (I changed it to 'DsktpImage') and checked 'Reconnect at logon'.

In Ghost 2003, I browsed for, found and saved to the above Mapped Drive, then continued with Ghost until it shut down Windows and rebooted to DOS. At that point the following message appeared (something brief preceeded it but scrolled by so quickly I couldn't read it and I couldn't get back to it):

"1. The system may not support the PCI bus.
2. The NIC may not be installed in a slot.
3. Some of the NIC resources in configuration space may be invalid.

Check for possible errors and run diagnostics.

Failure: Driver did not load. NDIS environment invalid."

It added:

"NET 5733: The protocol manager has reported an inadequate binding.   IBM NETBEUI 3.00    Error in loading.
Press F1 to continue."

When F1 is pressed, DOS shuts down and the computer reboots to Windows.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #41 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 10:23am
 
NightOwl. Help.
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #42 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 10:55am
 
Harold

Because you are using Ghost 2003, which must drop to DOS to function when actually doing the Ghost operation, and you are trying to use Ghost over a peer-to-peer network, I think the problem now is you have to have DOS Ghost running on both machines.  See this outline:

How to clone or save an image file over a TCP/IP peer to peer connection


Take heed of their warning:

Quote:

WARNING: This relationship is very important; if the wrong computer is set as Master or Slave, it can cause data loss on the drive you intend to copy. Be certain which computer is the Master and which is the Slave. For further clarification, see the section "Assigning the Master and Slave computers."
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
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Harold
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #43 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 1:27pm
 
Brian,

I am going to have to study this Master/Slave arrangement some. If it requires making a Ghost disk that will run on both computers, I can make and run a floppy on the desktop but can't do either on the laptop, and I can make a DVD on the laptop but not on the desktop. I can run a DVD on both and I can make and run a CD on both.

In the next two weeks I will be involved in travel and family reunioning that won't allow much time for this and I don't want to do the Master/Slave thing unless I can concentrate on it well enough so I don't make the kind of catastrophic error the instructions warn about. Thus I think it is better to postpone this process until I am back home after July 15th. I feel quite secure in the meantime with the desktop HD image made using BartPE and Drive Snapshot, which I now have on two DVD disks.

Harold
 
 
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Re: Can lost Network Neighbourhood be retrieved?
Reply #44 - Jun 27th, 2005 at 2:10pm
 
Harold

Just for the record--the Master/Slave warning is more important when doing a 'clone' or a 'restore', not when creating an image.

For the laptop, you will need to create a bootable floppy disk using the Ghost Boot Wizard on the desktop with the floppy drive--create the 'Peer-to-Peer Network Boot Disk' with the needed entries that apply to the laptop, if any, then use a CD/DVD burning program to make a bootable optical disc from that boot floppy.  You will use that bootable optical disk for the laptop.

You can just make a boot floppy for the desktop with Ghost Boot Wizard  to create its 'Peer-to-Peer Network Boot Disk' with any specific desktop entries.

See ya when you return--have a good time!
 

No question is stupid...but, possibly the answers are  Wink !
(This is an old *NightOwl* user account--not in current use.  Current account is NightOwl without a dash at the end.)
 
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